Ranger Archive
Thread: It seems like Tiggs is saying we'll be waiting even longer...
Phenix1050 wrote:
I'll tell you why there's a bit of a annoyance.
The Y-8 has been out since May '05. Now it has not been bugged the entire time. Some people have Y-8s, so there was a time when you could get them. So that's less than three months from bug to fix.
Ranger hasn't worked in 2 years. That's a heck of a lot longer than 3 months. Same thing with Krayt drops...it's been around 2 publishes. Yet that's gonna get fixed faster than the fact that there hasn't been a reason to throw anything but adhesive mesh and p-dart since game launch.
It just seems the minor details of the game shouldn't be worked on until major things are done moving around. We all know that any new features added will have bugs. Yet it seems that fixing those is more important that fixing professions. Consider this: since the CU, adhesive meshes haven't worked. 3 months of complete non-functionality. No fix. BH terminals have accidentaly been showing offline Jedi. Doesn't make the profession non-funcitonal, I've tested the BH mission terminals and had 100% of the Jedi I got misisons for were online. Yet that issue was resolved in under a week.
I'm not complaining about major game-breaking bugs being fixed. I'm complaining about the stupid little annoyance getting fixed before they fix huge issues with professions. Fixes to issues that've popped up in the last 2 months and that don't make playing the game nearly impossible as a profession should take a back seat. Camps haven't repelled creatures since launch. That's a bug. Who wants to take bets as to whether or not that one will make the fix list? Now who wants to bet me that an issue with Jedi or BH which isn't big gets fixed?
That's my point. I'm all for bug fixes. But I think the bug fixes will focus around the same few professions that see all the publishes devoted to them, or around miscellaneous bugs that aren't game-breaking. But hey, if you consider getting your Y-8 more important than having a working profession...that's your thing. Me? I'd rather have them shove the little fixes and face the big issues.
I just hope we can tone down the "it's the End of Days for Ranger" type posts, and not have the forums spin right back down into the mess there were about a month or so ago, when it was outright painful to read many of the posts.
Phenix1050 wrote:
I'll tell you why there's a bit of a annoyance.
The Y-8 has been out since May '05. Now it has not been bugged the entire time. Some people have Y-8s, so there was a time when you could get them. So that's less than three months from bug to fix.
Ranger hasn't worked in 2 years. That's a heck of a lot longer than 3 months. Same thing with Krayt drops...it's been around 2 publishes. Yet that's gonna get fixed faster than the fact that there hasn't been a reason to throw anything but adhesive mesh and p-dart since game launch.
It just seems the minor details of the game shouldn't be worked on until major things are done moving around. We all know that any new features added will have bugs. Yet it seems that fixing those is more important that fixing professions. Consider this: since the CU, adhesive meshes haven't worked. 3 months of complete non-functionality. No fix. BH terminals have accidentaly been showing offline Jedi. Doesn't make the profession non-funcitonal, I've tested the BH mission terminals and had 100% of the Jedi I got misisons for were online. Yet that issue was resolved in under a week.
To paraphrase the whole CU early publish fiasco, SOE pushed it to live as a whole to reveal the underlying bugs that were not visible on Test Center. Then they were going to fix bugs.
We deserve something to make our profession worth more skill points than any other, even if it is buggy.
Eavik wrote:
This ship is sinking fast.
JBMat wrote:
What if every time a Ranger logged into the game he or she did a /bug and reported that examine is broken. And did it every half hour on the hour and half hour. Or every 15 minutes, on the quarter hours.
Interesting idea.
We should start acting like BHs and Jedi and maybe we will get some loving.
JB
Indeed.
Is anyone really surprised?
We are too quiet. It's as simple as that.
I guess people read what they want to read.. or they just enjoy being negative.
Here's the comments that I read (Tiggs comments):
This doesn't mean that there won't be changes to professions or other content, it just means that bigger things are pushed out and given the time to be worked on that they deserve.
Our Live team will be focusing more energy on fixing top issues.
(in response to profession revamps being postponed)
I didn't say it wasn't postponed either. All I said is right now the Live team is focusing on fixing what is broken and new features will be moved out to a long term implementation.
And from TH:
"For the next few publishes, we will be doing smaller publishes that focus on bugs and issues. "
From those comments and others, I read that bugs will receive priority (how can anyone argue with that?) and that doesn't exclude profession changes or issues.
On one hand, there's complaints about bug fixes taking priority in this thread.. and in the same thread, there are complaints about A-mesh being broken since the CU!?! Well, seems to me that there's more hope for adhesive mesh getting fixed now than before. Same goes for /examine.
Phenix wrote:
Tiggs has commented on the pearl/crystal drops, the chat tab bug and several other things that are NOT PROFESSION-BREAKING, but she hasn't made any comment on the tons of bugs with Rangers
The exact quote from tiggs was: This issue has been bugged but is on hold until other bugs are fixed first..
Nowhere did they say it was a priority, rather it's "on hold" while other bugs receive priority.
She didn't mention ranger bugs, but she also didn't mention hundreds of other bugs that exist.
..as for Ranger "being broken for two years"? That's funny, I found it to be a perfectly fun profession to play when I did. (January '04 until May '05) As I recall, the ranger forum was always full of people defending the profession as "useful" and "fun", despite the shortcomings. Sure, there were no large changes - very few in fact..
But if it was truely broken for two years, why stick with it for so long? Did you master ranger and think that it was a fun profession to play, and stuck with it for two years.. Or did you master ranger, think that it was broken, but decided to stick with it because you thought that one day, if you wait long enough, that it will become everything you'd hoped it would be?
For me, I mastered and and liked it.. It wasn't what I'd hoped it would be, but I never viewed it as broken -- in fact, I had a lot of fun with it, and that's why I kept it for so long. I only dropped it when I no longer found it enjoyable, and picked up something else that I did enjoy. I'm sure I'll come back to it at some point, if changes are made.
This post isn't directed at you Phenix, except for a few of the comments. But it's mainly directed at all the doomsayers and, as Paks would say, "Negative Nellies"
I don't know what to say.. I hope some of you guys find happiness, either through profession fixes, or just finding something else to play (another profession or game). But I really hope you aren't all as negative in real life as you are on these forums. The devs aren't out to get you, they don't hate your profession or your utter being.. They don't want you dead.
The players want dev communication, but when they give it, it's not the right kind of communication. I just don't understand why every little thing the devs say is picked apart and twisted and viewed with such skepticism and resentment and anger. And then players actually expect and demand that they give specific details and dates on when changes or fixes will be made?
Oh and I do find the chat channel bug game breaking. It has made it more of a hassle to communicate with my guild, and it has single-handedly destroyed the RIN channel on Kauri. (too much trouble to rejoin with each session, and people no longer use it. I'm not sure if they'll bother to rejoin when it's fixed).
What's not game-breaking to some, may be game-breaking to many others.
Honestly, I stick around more for the people than the profession at this point. Everything that I can do, so can other professions. Yes, I can solo the Gorax and Krayts. But then again, anyone with a root and a snare can do that as well, and they don't have to use resources to get their effects. Like it or not, there have been several aspects of Rangers that are BROKEN. Non-functioning. A lot of them have been this way since I started as a Ranger in September 2003. Traps outside of the P-dart fit this category. Camps not repelling aggro fit this category. These are bugs. Now, there's no guarantee that these will or will not be fixed.
I'm not saying I'm leaving, I'm not saying anyone else should either. I'm just saying that there are far too many people who are saying "bug fixes are the best thing they can do". That's not true in my opinion. There are Priority 1 bugs and there are a lot of smaller bugs, as well. Big bugs getting fixed comes before profession fixes. That should always be a given. One of the worst decisions in recent SWG history has been the short publish cycle that didn't take into account the game-breaking bugs it introduced. The problem for me comes when low-priority stuff- stuff that doesn't greatly affect gameplay, only is a slight annoyance- comes before fixing stuff with certain professions.
Let me put it this way: I'm always hopeful that SOE will come in and take out a lot of the bugsthat hinder the enjoyment of this game. I'm just concerned that the SOE team will be fixing bugs on the number of complaints, not on the severity. Meaning that if it comes down to the wire and there is only time to fix one more issue, SOE will fix a minor issue with Jedi above a major issue with Ranger. I hope I'm wrong. But I've seen them operate this way in terms of fixing and adding to professions. It seems company policy that small problems that affect big numbers get more attention than big problems that affect small numbers. It's a good business policy, to be sure, but it's not a good strategy when trying to build a balanced and fun game.
frightwig wrote: I don't know.. I kind of like what I read about the focus of publishes. I guess people read what they want to read.. or they just enjoy being negative. ..as for Ranger "being broken for two years"? That's funny, I found it to be a perfectly fun profession to play when I did. (January '04 until May '05) As I recall, the ranger forum was always full of people defending the profession as "useful" and "fun", despite the shortcomings. Sure, there were no large changes - very few in fact..
...and few notable bug fixes. I started playing SWG shortly after release too. Guess what? It's STILL broken. When I started, there were NO Jedi. In the time since I've started,they've beenadded and repeatedly "adjusted"... and they're still (arguably) getting the majority of developer attention. Are we to assume that the majority of people play a Jedi, or that the bugs with their profession are particularly game-breaking?
This isn't a contest between professions, this is yet -another- attempt to wake the developers up to the sizable segment of their audience who are not playing Jedi, and who are not primarily concerned with Jedi or Bounty Hunter fixes. They have radically altered the game from its original design, but they have not bothered to address issues that have existed with thisprofession (and several others) from the day of LAUNCH. This is, frankly, unbelieveable. It is also, by definition, "broken". If you find the bugs with the ranger profession to be less inconvenient than others, that's fantastic, but it has absolutely no bearing on whether the game systems are actually broken or not.
But if it was truely broken for two years, why stick with it for so long? Did you master ranger and think that it was a fun profession to play, and stuck with it for two years.. Or did you master ranger, think that it was broken, but decided to stick with it because you thought that one day, if you wait long enough, that it will become everything you'd hoped it would be?
The latter. I'm still waiting.
For me, I mastered and and liked it.. It wasn't what I'd hoped it would be, but I never viewed it as broken
Huzzah. Unfortunately, whether you personally view it as broken or not, I can assure you that it is not working as intended. Don't believe me? Start reading the skill box descriptions in the Scout/Ranger survival tree. Camps do not repel creatures as described. That's called "broken", even if you can conveniently ignore it. That's one example among many.
I invite you to read the list of Ranger bugs stickied at the top of the forum. Many of these bugs are 2+ years old, and some date from pre-launch.
I only dropped it when I no longer found it enjoyable, and picked up something else that I did enjoy. I'm sure I'll come back to it at some point, if changes are made.
You dropped it. We're still here, and the bugs are still staring us in the face. We're coping, you've moved on. Yet you choose to wag your finger at those of us who don't adopt the tone you would prefer we set.
The players want dev communication, but when they give it, it's not the right kind of communication. I just don't understand why every little thing the devs say is picked apart and twisted and viewed with such skepticism and resentment and anger. And then players actually expect and demand that they give specific details and dates on when changes or fixes will be made?
We like to call this phenomenon of expecting results "accountability to the consumer" mixed with a heavy and liberal dose of "cynicism". It's a common practice, in most industries, to expect repairs to existing product before expanding it to include new features. Expanding a codebase that's already broken is simply asking to create problems with the new features when the underlying bugs are finally fixed.
We've now seen a game that was broken at launch (factory bug, anyone?)and which has since been expanded TWICE without fixes being applied to significant portions of the content that was there in the original game at the time of LAUNCH. I assure you - ifGlow Juice Trapsstarted landing on Jedifor 10K damage, the problem would be fixed YESTERDAY. Instead, since it's just a matter of them being mostly "ineffective" the problem is of a much, much lower priority to the people responsible for fixing the situation. I just disagree how much lower a priority it shouldbe.
You can call me a "negative nelly" if you like. (Sticks and stones.) I call it being a realist to expect some satisfaction in this matter. Two years is a very long time to wait for the problems to be rectified. If you think it's just us, go talk to the DEs. Go talk to the smugglers. Go talk to the Entertainers, and the Bio-engineers. Then, and only then,can you come back here and tell me I lack perspective on what is or is not broken.
I hope it's just my cynicism clouding my vision. I hope that we're not really the forgotten step-children of SWG, locked in the cellar with the smugglers, DEs, BEs and entertainers. I hope that next month, I'll come back here and laugh at how foolish I was tothink nothing would change for the better. I hope that the fixes are in the works right now, even if it's only as scrawlings on some developer's drink-coaster napkin.
...but I don't believe it.
Kinshi wrote:I dont know about you but I dont think limbo is a nice place to live.
I thought you dropped ranger?
Iseult
Master Ranger / Mediocre Carbiner
Bloodfin