Ranger Archive
Thread: Revised harvesting changes..
DaveG
Sun Feb 20, 2005 9:22 am
#274
Phenix1050 wrote:
Y'all know where I stand. zero penalty *SMALL* positive bonus for grouping. I also support making Master Ranger harvest rates higher. Quick example,
Clarifaction: Do you intendthe master ranger to get this same increased bonus, and thus the master ranger will always get a high rate bonus because he/she isa master ranger? What about grouping with pets/droids?
Phenix1050
Sun Feb 20, 2005 9:31 am
#275
Sorry Dave, got cut off mid-post. Let me explain what I think.
People help each other by offering different/better methods of harvesting
Droids help by providing more advanced and calibrated tools.
Thus grouping with a droid doesn't teach you anything new, only makes you harvest more due to the fact that it's technological stuff to remove the skin. No, I don't think grouping with a droid should count. The group bonus represents, to me, teaching new methods and such.
A Master Ranger should be the best harvester in the game. meaning that they should be at least on par with anybody else who is grouped-- except a grouped Master Ranger. What we need to do is adjust the harvesting bonus for Master Ranger such that it's enough to negate the group bonus for anyone else but another Master Ranger. So a Ranger 0040 grouped with Master Ranger should get either the same, or less, than an ungrouped MR. But the MR who is grouped should be the best harvester of them all, because they have access to the most "methods" of harvesting.
does that make sense?
Sinkuu
Sun Feb 20, 2005 9:32 am
#276
I agree with Almagil.
no penalty to harvesting while grouped, to encourage grouping, where scouts and rangers who knowingly avoid groups because of the penalty (like myself) will now consider it.
an option to give a bonus when grouped with a Master Scout or a Master Ranger encourages people to get the master Ranks, and encourages groups to look for Masters for the penalty bonus, yet is not THAT big of a difference where major differences are to the point one side or the other will be affected outright.
EDIT: Struck through my mistake, bloody idiot I am.
Message Edited by Sinkuu on 02-20-2005 11:49 AM
Nastzguehl
Sun Feb 20, 2005 9:45 am
#277
Phenix1050 wrote:Sorry Dave, got cut off mid-post. Let me explain what I think.People help each other by offering different/better methods of harvestingDroids help by providing more advanced and calibrated tools.Thus grouping with a droid doesn't teach you anything new, only makes you harvest more due to the fact that it's technological stuff to remove the skin. No, I don't think grouping with a droid should count. The group bonus represents, to me, teaching new methods and such.A Master Ranger should be the best harvester in the game. meaning that they should be at least on par with anybody else who is grouped-- except a grouped Master Ranger. What we need to do is adjust the harvesting bonus for Master Ranger such that it's enough to negate the group bonus for anyone else but another Master Ranger. So a Ranger 0040 grouped with Master Ranger should get either the same, or less, than an ungrouped MR. But the MR who is grouped should be the best harvester of them all, because they have access to the most "methods" of harvesting.does that make sense?
Ok, now it starts to make sense to me, this way sounds like I could live very well with it
. This way gives both playstyles a place in the game.I hope the DEVs think the same way
. But I fear they will but the carrot in form of a general group bonus in place to encourage grouping .
Phenix1050
Sun Feb 20, 2005 9:49 am
#278
Nastzguehl wrote:
Ok, now it starts to make sense to me, this way sounds like I could live very well with it
I hope the DEVs think the same way
That's always been my intent. I still think there needs to be an incentive for grouping. But that incentive shouldn't be 40%. Looking at the numbers Paks gathered, 40% is the difference between a Master Ranger and a scout. That 40% is just WAY too high. Espcially considering that we're used to a 40% penaly, that's almost doubling what we harvest now. Too much of a good thing is a totally crappy thing.
DaveG
Sun Feb 20, 2005 9:55 am
#279
I think what I'm about to say is another way of saying what I and others had said before, but it might highlight it for others who haven't realised it (I know Almagil from what he's said already).
Solo Vs Group: Whatever the activity, a group is an advantage in itself. So as long as the group isn't being penalised, why add something to put the soloists at an even further disadvantage?
DaveG
Sun Feb 20, 2005 9:58 am
#280
If there is an extra harvesting bonus given to grouped players, then how is that true? If there is an extra harveting bonus for groups, then how are solo players not being penalised for being solo?
Nastzguehl wrote:
... This way gives both playstyles a place in the game...
Oculus
Sun Feb 20, 2005 10:11 am
#281
True... but why introduce this 'grouping bonus' if it's not available to all players?
Calculus_Entropy wrote:It's not like they are giving the skill away. If you can't harvest already, the bonus is of no benefit to you.
(I had a baby train of thought derailment, so I may add to this...)
They say it's not Ranger thing ( which implies Scout and the /harvest ability as well ) but something for everyone to encourage grouping, yet it's not going to be available to everyone.
The goup bonus is going to have an affect our creature harvest skill. It's going to be worth even less. The few extra resources per creature hardly justifies the SP investment as it is. Especially when you factor in harvest droids and veghash
If they aren't willing to add +medicine use when grouping with Doctors and similar 'grouping bonuses' later on, they can't justify this bonus and shouldn't start down that road to begin with.
Oku Kee'lus
Phenix1050
Sun Feb 20, 2005 10:16 am
#282
DaveG wrote:
If there is an extra harvesting bonus given to grouped players, then how is that true? If there is an extra harveting bonus for groups, then how are solo players not being penalised for being solo?
Nastzguehl wrote:
... This way gives both playstyles a place in the game...
Dave, yes, there is a bonus to grouping in my system. It's smaller, such that a Master Ranger can't be out-harvested by anyone ina group-- other than another Master Ranger. I think it's pretty fair. But let me ask you something-- is it really THAT big a deal to find somebody to hunt with? I mean...I can hop in on TC, Wanderhome or Eclipse any day of the week and have someone to hunt with inside of 10 minutes. I fail to see the huge concern. If you don't want to group, you'll harvest slightly less. If you don't have imput from other people, your methods are imperfect. It's true in real life-- having people around to give their imput helps. Why shouldn't that apply in the game?
DaveG
Sun Feb 20, 2005 10:27 am
#283
The reasons as to why grouping isn't always desirable have been gone over by myself and others. If you want I'll repost, if not you can read back.
Message Edited by DaveG on 02-20-2005 05:29 PM
Hakai
Sun Feb 20, 2005 10:46 am
#284
DaveG wrote:
The reasons as to why grouping isn't always desirable have been gone over by myself and others. If you want I'll repost, if not you can read back.
Message Edited by DaveG on 02-20-2005 05:29 PM
Aapparently the Devs are trying to increase the amount of organics going into the market. As they've stated several times before this is not a rangerbonus (unfortunately)
With this new system they're trying to increase the attractiveness of grouping by giving a bonus (thereby allowing us to increase our harvests). The only problem is that they stated that master rangers will not get our own grouping bonus, and the harvesting differnce between a master and a dabbler are so out of whack, that just by grouping a dabbler can harvest JUST AS MUCH or even MORE in certain situations.
From what i can see. they're not going to drop the bonus system. Apparently too many crafters complained that we were charging to much for our resources (which is ludicrious because of hte amount of time it takes to harvest amounts of organics), so it looks like this was supposed to be the fix. EXCEPT we're not allowed to have our own bonus.
As Owens said, he's trying to focus on fixing the percentages.
DaveG
Sun Feb 20, 2005 10:54 am
#285
Yeah but like I've already said, and I think the devs need reminding repeatedly until they're sick of hearing it, if they want to increase the amount of resources going into the market they already have a solution, because they've done it with milk and shellfish harvests. Just increase the yield rate per harvest. Again a simple solution is the best thing to do.
Nastzguehl
Sun Feb 20, 2005 11:07 am
#286
DaveG wrote:If there is an extra harvesting bonus given to grouped players, then how is that true? If there is an extra harveting bonus for groups, then how are solo players not being penalised for being solo?
Nastzguehl wrote:
... This way gives both playstyles a place in the game...
With the numbers for bonuses Phenix mentioned a MR will only be outharvested by a grouped MR. As there are very few MR not too many people will be outharvesting a MR
. But you are right if we reduce it to the point where we only have a look at the amount of harvested resources, yes a solo player will get less than a grouped player. But a solo player who isn't a MR has SP left to compensate this penalty by getting a template that can kill faster. So if we look at this not only by counting the amount of resources from one creature, we are able to reduce the penalty if not negate it.
We have to face the fact that the DEVs want a bonus, so we should focus on getting this bonus not to slap us in the face, as it would do if 0040 Rangers could outharvest a MR.