Ranger Archive
Thread: Ranger Revamp: The Proposal
Abbaddon
Fri Dec 24, 2004 2:18 pm
#14
Few things rangers need. Some listed already.
Tracking: There needs to be more than just a skill for Tracking: Distance. Something like a Tracking Distance +xx skill mod. So we can go above 500m. Because honestly.. especially now with swoops, 500m is pretty much seeing where you've already been. There should be skill mods for it, that increases your range.. up to say 1000m or maybe 1500m at Master Ranger or something.. making Master Ranger actually worth getting.
Harvesting: At novice scout I can harvest around 160 units of a resource off of an enraged rancor. At master ranger i can harvest about 175-180. I think there should be a more substantial jump as you go up the ranks. Again, making master ranger something worth getting. Also, not specific to ranger, but I think harvest droids should be able to be programmed to automatically harvest any corpse you kill, without you having to tell it to. Also maybe if the droid could store the resources on itself until you pull them off of it. Another interesting thing, that i dont necessarily see happening, would be if you could harvest multiple resource types off of the same creature, getting more effective at doing so the higher in Ranger you get. It would make sense.. If I skin a creature for its hide, what is exposed? Its meat. If I strip the meat off the bone, what do I have lying there? A pile of animal bones.
Survival: The answer to this one is simple. Make camps useful. Now that you can call pets/bikes anywhere, one of the main usefulnesses of camps is effectively destroyed. The only use I can see left for camps is for healing battle fatigue out in the field, but honestly, how many hunting groups travel around with entertainers. There should be some sort of aspect to camps that makes them worth placing.
Trapping: Same as Survival. Make traps worth a damn. Give us offensive traps that can compare with other professions special abilities, things that can actually TRAP a creature for a certain amount of time, immobilizing it until it manages to break free. Make traps that have states that will actually stick to things that arent nunas and worrts and the like. I dont care how big and tough and strong a creature is, the point of fact is that it is still a creature and less intelligent than me, meaning that I should be able as an experienced woodsman and trapper, be able to lure it into a trap.
Foraging: Again the same. Whats the point of foraging, when you cant forage anything worth while. Should be something cool you can find as a ranger while foraging that you cant find elsewhere. I've found things like food (that isnt worth eating because crafted stuff is much better), resources (that arent worth using because of small amounts or horrible stats, not to mention the inability to craft anything except traps and camps as a ranger), and nothing(useless in and of itself).
After being a woodsman for so long, hiking and trekking long distances, taking only what you can carry and what you need to survive, a Master Ranger will indoubtedly come up with new ways to make the most of his storage space, perhaps increasing the size of your inventory, or the size of a backpack, or maybe letting rangers, as part of survival skills, craft backpacks specifically, making more useful ones with higher inventory space the closer to master you get.
I've read a few things about giving ranger specific weapons, like bows and stuff like that, which would be really cool. Maybe some kind of bow or projectile weapon that has a damage or accuracy bonus vs creatures or something. Specific to ranger use. At very least you figure a Ranger would be more than proficient with a hunting knife. Yet to do anything with any sort of a knife you must be a fencer.
Tracking: There needs to be more than just a skill for Tracking: Distance. Something like a Tracking Distance +xx skill mod. So we can go above 500m. Because honestly.. especially now with swoops, 500m is pretty much seeing where you've already been. There should be skill mods for it, that increases your range.. up to say 1000m or maybe 1500m at Master Ranger or something.. making Master Ranger actually worth getting.
Harvesting: At novice scout I can harvest around 160 units of a resource off of an enraged rancor. At master ranger i can harvest about 175-180. I think there should be a more substantial jump as you go up the ranks. Again, making master ranger something worth getting. Also, not specific to ranger, but I think harvest droids should be able to be programmed to automatically harvest any corpse you kill, without you having to tell it to. Also maybe if the droid could store the resources on itself until you pull them off of it. Another interesting thing, that i dont necessarily see happening, would be if you could harvest multiple resource types off of the same creature, getting more effective at doing so the higher in Ranger you get. It would make sense.. If I skin a creature for its hide, what is exposed? Its meat. If I strip the meat off the bone, what do I have lying there? A pile of animal bones.
Survival: The answer to this one is simple. Make camps useful. Now that you can call pets/bikes anywhere, one of the main usefulnesses of camps is effectively destroyed. The only use I can see left for camps is for healing battle fatigue out in the field, but honestly, how many hunting groups travel around with entertainers. There should be some sort of aspect to camps that makes them worth placing.
Trapping: Same as Survival. Make traps worth a damn. Give us offensive traps that can compare with other professions special abilities, things that can actually TRAP a creature for a certain amount of time, immobilizing it until it manages to break free. Make traps that have states that will actually stick to things that arent nunas and worrts and the like. I dont care how big and tough and strong a creature is, the point of fact is that it is still a creature and less intelligent than me, meaning that I should be able as an experienced woodsman and trapper, be able to lure it into a trap.
Foraging: Again the same. Whats the point of foraging, when you cant forage anything worth while. Should be something cool you can find as a ranger while foraging that you cant find elsewhere. I've found things like food (that isnt worth eating because crafted stuff is much better), resources (that arent worth using because of small amounts or horrible stats, not to mention the inability to craft anything except traps and camps as a ranger), and nothing(useless in and of itself).
After being a woodsman for so long, hiking and trekking long distances, taking only what you can carry and what you need to survive, a Master Ranger will indoubtedly come up with new ways to make the most of his storage space, perhaps increasing the size of your inventory, or the size of a backpack, or maybe letting rangers, as part of survival skills, craft backpacks specifically, making more useful ones with higher inventory space the closer to master you get.
I've read a few things about giving ranger specific weapons, like bows and stuff like that, which would be really cool. Maybe some kind of bow or projectile weapon that has a damage or accuracy bonus vs creatures or something. Specific to ranger use. At very least you figure a Ranger would be more than proficient with a hunting knife. Yet to do anything with any sort of a knife you must be a fencer.
Rhuidean
Fri Jan 07, 2005 2:19 am
#15
Abbaddon wrote:
At master ranger i can harvest about 175-180.
The amount you can harvest depends a bit on how many people you are grouped with.
From a Bull Ranchor i get 300+ when im solo. Somewhere around 150+ with 5 or more in group.
Abbaddon wrote:
Also maybe if the droid could store the resources on itself until you pull them off of it.
I think it can do that if it have a storage comparment installed.
But i do agree with you mate
/thumbsup for a good post
Message Edited by Rhuidean on 01-07-2005 01:20 AM
Bethya
Mon Jan 10, 2005 8:09 am
#16
I've been meaning to read through all the revamp stuff so have carved out some time today to have a look. Just a few random thoughts on posts already in this thread, even though I know you're not particularly looking for stuff of this nature at this stage in the process.
Tracking
I am not so sure we need to be able to track further than 500m (sounds a bit too much of a bonus to me) but certainly the re-tracking every hundred or so metres as we zero in is a pain. I'd like to see something like:
1. You /areatrack as now, choosing whether you want animals, npcs or players.
2. You zero in on one of the results - e.g. a mountain squill, and then 'follow their footprints' in the kind of manner that Dameos was talking about.
3. It'd be nice if the actual artwork in game was a bit different too. Checking the horizon is fine, but I always think I should be down on my haunches, examining the ground for footprints etc.. like an aborigine or native american tracker or something.
Harvesting
I'm not so sure we need to harvest more than a droid at master ranger. It is after all a machine that should be able to do an 'optimised' job. I do think that we should be able to harvest more than one resource though because of our superior skills, something a droid couldn't do. So the ranger either chooses to mass-harvest via a droid for one resource or goes around him/herself and skins andguts the animal and collects all the resources and loot by hand.
Foraging
I'd add two things here - first it'd be nice to forage for something specific. e.g. I'm looking for bait.. if you don't find bait but find something else, don't tell me,I don't care. The amount I destroy from foraging is v.annoying.
Trapping
I disagree with Abaddon. Traps are worth a damn... particularly to me as a rifleman who needs to think a bit more when taking down big game because of the lack of defences for riflemen. I would like to see some kind of animal pit trap added though... set a pit/trap type thing and be able to leave it, come back a day later to check what you've caught! Perhaps different sizes to even set a kimo trap or something! You should get xp for the kills but I think probably they should be counted as actual buildings and count against your allowance as a result.
You should get xp for the kills but I think probably they should be counted as actual buildings and count against your allowance as a result.I am sure I will think of other things but these were thoughts prompted by other posts or by things that I've been thinking about in game for a while.
Felisconcolori
Fri Jan 14, 2005 11:10 am
#18
Abbaddon wrote:
Few things rangers need. Some listed already.
I've read a few things about giving ranger specific weapons, like bows and stuff like that, which would be really cool. Maybe some kind of bow or projectile weapon that has a damage or accuracy bonus vs creatures or something. Specific to ranger use. At very least you figure a Ranger would be more than proficient with a hunting knife. Yet to do anything with any sort of a knife you must be a fencer.
Y'know, I've been probably a bit off topic beating this into heads in the BE forums, where I troll most of the time. It is after all the primary profession I have; Ranger comes about 3rd or so. But the problem is, by the time I get to Ranger, I can't possibly have any marksman or brawler. Which you must have if you need to use anything beyond a dime store CDEF piece of crap.
Yeah, realistically, I can see that a hunter who tracks big game (but is not a professional soldier of fortune, like a Marksman) doesn't know one end of his Scout Blaster from the other. It's a bit of a sore point with me, in that I have invested so much time and work into two professions that revolve around hunting in the dangerous wilds of planets rife with horrible monsters, and if I walk past a Meatlump spawn I am clubbed to death because my little CDEF does less damage than nuna spit.
(I'm a bioengineer, creature handler, and ranger; trust me, I know my nuna spit.)
Owen-Lars
Sat Jan 15, 2005 9:04 am
#19
Nice stuff guys and interesting opinons and ideas. Im glad and thankfull you are all taking the time out to suggest things.
Dariane_Kamutsovy
Sat Jan 15, 2005 6:09 pm
#20
Tracking
I like the idea of different animations as well, but i'd like to see a few other options/changes.
I like the idea of different animations as well, but i'd like to see a few other options/changes.
- The option to track some animal in particular
- Tracking (in general) should cost mind/action points.
Example:
Let's say I'm asked to track/find a enraged dune kimo on lok.
I now have to use areatrack every 100m (even if tracking is 500m at first), it doesn't cost me anything so it's only a minor annoyance.
Let's say I'm asked to track/find a enraged dune kimo on lok.
I now have to use areatrack every 100m (even if tracking is 500m at first), it doesn't cost me anything so it's only a minor annoyance.
However, the change to be able to examine CERTAIN footprints to see if it is a particular animal is chance based (mind/action left?).
It might be that mind/action is soo low, your focus is soo bad you might overlook footprint and decide it is the animal you seek and head that way only to find something else... (or nothing at all). Addition: like a sort of special waypoint arrow on screen for the "possible" direction to go.
It might be that mind/action is soo low, your focus is soo bad you might overlook footprint and decide it is the animal you seek and head that way only to find something else... (or nothing at all). Addition: like a sort of special waypoint arrow on screen for the "possible" direction to go.
Harvesting
- I don't agree a bonus should given too the ranger, but there should be given armor/clothing attachments to increase it! Just like for almost every class a stat can be enhanced by wearing those attachment, none exists for harvesting, one of the main issues for a scout/ranger.
- Droids who are more optimized should be able to get more harvesting done than a ranger. But... why only a rating of 108? Medic droids can easily get 110! Same goes for a medic having certain attire. Why not the ranger/his droid? In theory, a level of 120 should be reached (jedi crafting), but since almost no one goes that way (too hard to get), we're stuck with lesser harvesting droids!
- And I do agree on getting all the resources...
But if you were going to get only one resource, you should get MORE of it. If for example you only want the hide, you carefully skin a creature to get the optimal amount, while if you go for the bones, you don't care about the skin and meat. - When in a group it's ridicilous to share the resources if there are no other scout/rangers present. As it is now, if I'm in a group with 10 people, i get 1/10th of the resources, even if these other 9 people are TKM's (or anything BUT scout/ranger). If there would be one other the base would be based on 50/50 or, more difficult, on the CHB of them both (base harvesting skill, foodbonus, droidbonus).
Foraging/Milking/Searching lair...
- In one word: worthless... The items foraged/milked/searched for are completely unusable. No one is asking for them. No chef is asking for milk/eggs to make better food! IMHO they should Fisherman (need fishing bait) never ask for bait. I wonder if anyone is fishing at all!?
- Besides that, the quantities are way too low. If i forage i get 1 item, with a lot of luck 3 of the same (bait). Eggs and milk are a bit higher in quantities but the stats are so useless, Chefs rather use HIDE in food then eggs/milk!
Traps
Traps are ok. A few more kind of traps should be usefull.
However, it's a pain NOT being able to use them on PC handled pets (or even NPC/PCs for that matter)...
Traps are ok. A few more kind of traps should be usefull.
However, it's a pain NOT being able to use them on PC handled pets (or even NPC/PCs for that matter)...
As a master ranger/ch/partial rifleman I will never engage in PVP combat because I know I won't stand a chance. Even with certain NPC (not pets) I must take great care, because I only can rely on my pets and rifleman skills.
I just don't get it why a trap should not/could not work on any living creature (whether NPC/PC)... Against droids they would be worthless ofcourse. Some may even work: think of an r2 trapped in a mesh-wire....
Camps
Those are just a curiosity now. No use for anything but to show off, rest and in my personal case being able to heal/heal my pets.
Those are just a curiosity now. No use for anything but to show off, rest and in my personal case being able to heal/heal my pets.
However... a change would be, just as in a hospital, to increase healing rate. I think it's the case for PCs but NOT for pets.
Also the idea of changing/adding extra items to a camp sound appealing. Thinking of a High Tech with Equip factory instead of a Food/Chemical station (cannot be used by ranger alone). Making schematic in camp at WDG station and then putting the gathered resources into the factory and rest while a new batch of *whatever* is being made.
Might cost more resources tough, but that would make a rangers live more interesting.
Items to be crafted
In general, the only experimentation we can do is the Quantity of the item (number of uses), while it does not matter how bad quality the resources might be..
It would be better for traps to have stats. Example to have a flash trap need certain resources that blind for a certain amount of time. And that duration can be increased as well (or in case) as the number of uses, depending on quality of station, tool used and resources ofcourse.
Medic skill
As a ranger, or even a scout, well known in the ways of nature, there are ways to find resources or use items to heal yourself or others. Thinking of herbs (harvested/foraging?) to counteract poison, or to find some kind of flower that can be used together with a piece of crafted bone (wdg) to sow a bleeding wound to closure.
As a ranger, or even a scout, well known in the ways of nature, there are ways to find resources or use items to heal yourself or others. Thinking of herbs (harvested/foraging?) to counteract poison, or to find some kind of flower that can be used together with a piece of crafted bone (wdg) to sow a bleeding wound to closure.
That in itself might again attract more people to work in groups with a ranger.
Speaking of it, it springs to mind, that a ranger might heal fast himself (higher healing rate) because of his connection with nature.
01/21/05: added some remarks i forgot...
Message Edited by Dariane_Kamutsovy on 01-20-2005 09:03 PM
lunas
Sun Jan 16, 2005 1:56 am
#21
Tracking:
i like the idea of in creased range on traking but i think that 1500 meters is a little far. i think 100 meters is ver realistic. also mabey at master ranger have an ption in traking where you see "older traks" where the creature isn't within 1000 meters but was x amount of time ago and it was heading this direction (after all that is what traking is). When you use this option it doesn't guarantee that you will find said creature just that it was here and that it might be in that direction.
Trapping:
at the moment i would be happy if our current traps worked better. I.E. our best trap doesn't even work.
Harvesting:
i would like to see ranger not soffer the group harvesting handicap as well as being able to harvest all of the resorces off of a creature. Also we need a much larger harvesting increase over master scout. As we go up the ranger trees we learn more and more about creature like how to kill them how to track them why wouldn't we learn more about how harvest them?
Camps:
i agrere with alot of the posts in this thread that we should get to customize our camps a little. Weaponsmiths and armorsmiths and docs can customize the items they craft so why can't we. i would love to see use be able to make a entertainment camp where there are more lights and a stage stuff like that, medic camps that give more of a bonus to healing, or a hunting camp that is camofloged.
i like the idea of in creased range on traking but i think that 1500 meters is a little far. i think 100 meters is ver realistic. also mabey at master ranger have an ption in traking where you see "older traks" where the creature isn't within 1000 meters but was x amount of time ago and it was heading this direction (after all that is what traking is). When you use this option it doesn't guarantee that you will find said creature just that it was here and that it might be in that direction.
Trapping:
at the moment i would be happy if our current traps worked better. I.E. our best trap doesn't even work.
Harvesting:
i would like to see ranger not soffer the group harvesting handicap as well as being able to harvest all of the resorces off of a creature. Also we need a much larger harvesting increase over master scout. As we go up the ranger trees we learn more and more about creature like how to kill them how to track them why wouldn't we learn more about how harvest them?
Camps:
i agrere with alot of the posts in this thread that we should get to customize our camps a little. Weaponsmiths and armorsmiths and docs can customize the items they craft so why can't we. i would love to see use be able to make a entertainment camp where there are more lights and a stage stuff like that, medic camps that give more of a bonus to healing, or a hunting camp that is camofloged.
SickSix
Tue Jan 18, 2005 4:17 pm
#22
Well, I'm not a ranger yet, but I've always planned to be (i'm stuck on survival4 rightnow, what a horrible grind that will be). But Heres what i'd like to see so that my future career actually does me some good.
-Anyways, I say get rid of foraging all together. It has to be the most useless skill in SWG! What in the f#@# am i going to do with 4 units of so and so?!?!?!
-I would like to see Ranger, and Scout, to have Rifle ability mods. What do hunters hunt with...... RIFLES!. Maybe give Ranger a special conceal shot mod that only works on animals or something. I like the Bow idea. But that intales a whole new weapon.
-And it's only natural you should be able to harvest the entire animal. I always thought that was dumb.... I kill a giant peko peko and only can get one resource..... exuse me??
-I like the crafting backpack idea, but I think it's fine that artisans make those. We should be able to make the "pit" traps though. Something I can leave and come back to as mentioned. Obviously they should progress in size as you move up, like a Master Ranger should be able to Trap Kimos or something.
But my biggest gripe is lack of combat mods. A ranger has to kill stuff, and I'm pretty sure all big game hunters use heavy rifles of some sort *cough*T21*cough* so why not give ranger and scout rifle mods??
Wasstastic
Wed Jan 19, 2005 12:46 pm
#23
Not all Rangers are Riflemen. (Pikewookiee here! But in agreement with you I'm probably going back to Rifles, I miss my Bowcaster)
These ideas here are awesome but I don't think anyone has mentioned Rescue. Is it just another name for Taunt or am I missing something?
/salute
These ideas here are awesome but I don't think anyone has mentioned Rescue. Is it just another name for Taunt or am I missing something?
/salute
Felisconcolori
Wed Jan 19, 2005 7:05 pm
#24
SickSix wrote:
Well, I'm not a ranger yet, but I've always planned to be (i'm stuck on survival4 rightnow, what a horrible grind that will be). But Heres what i'd like to see so that my future career actually does me some good.
-Anyways, I say get rid of foraging all together. It has to be the most useless skill in SWG! What in the f#@# am i going to do with 4 units of so and so?!?!?!
-I would like to see Ranger, and Scout, to have Rifle ability mods. What do hunters hunt with...... RIFLES!. Maybe give Ranger a special conceal shot mod that only works on animals or something. I like the Bow idea. But that intales a whole new weapon.
-And it's only natural you should be able to harvest the entire animal. I always thought that was dumb.... I kill a giant peko peko and only can get one resource..... exuse me??
-I like the crafting backpack idea, but I think it's fine that artisans make those. We should be able to make the "pit" traps though. Something I can leave and come back to as mentioned. Obviously they should progress in size as you move up, like a Master Ranger should be able to Trap Kimos or something.
But my biggest gripe is lack of combat mods. A ranger has to kill stuff, and I'm pretty sure all big game hunters use heavy rifles of some sort *cough*T21*cough* so why not give ranger and scout rifle mods??
Crap. I had a really nice reply typed out too....
Ahem, as I was typing before the back button was pressed.. YES! Combat modifiers for Scouts/Rangers - > HELL YES. I wouldn't make them weapon specific (hunters do use spears, bows, pistols, carbines, shotguns, etc) but they are sorely missed outside any non-Brawler/Marksman derived professions.
However, harkening to a post in regards to BE complaints about SP cost (ie, to be a functional MBE, you must invest the requirements for BE, 24 points for a vendor, the Mask Scent skill tree, and usually something along CH lines), the Dev reply was "Tough. You can be a MBE and still have SP left over to be a combat monkey, or doctor, if you want to, or develop artisan skills, etc, etc." My own template (heh... like I put that much thought into it...) is a MBE/MCH, with Ranger Tracking (2 or 4, depending on when my skill points run out). Thus, I will have NO combat abilities (or vendor, but I sell mostly through word of mouth). I will, however, be able to fully figure out what I'm making, where to find dna, etc. So, while I'm poking the Mutant Rancor in the nutz for some sexy DNA, as soon as it turns around I will die; a CDEF is woefully inadequate even when backed up with AA's, CA's, the new loot stims, and C-12 grenades (when you can find someone to make them).
Hopefully I can make enough money to hire bodyguards... I'll need them.
Felisconcolori
Wed Jan 19, 2005 7:07 pm
#25
Wasstastic wrote:
Not all Rangers are Riflemen. (Pikewookiee here! But in agreement with you I'm probably going back to Rifles, I miss my Bowcaster)
These ideas here are awesome but I don't think anyone has mentioned Rescue. Is it just another name for Taunt or am I missing something?
/salute
Ummmm.... Rescue has AA's , CA's, and BE tissues. I haven't seen taunt with them. Maybe Rescue is a more powerful taunt? But yeah, seems to be the same thing.
Owen-Lars
Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:08 pm
#26
I say get rid of foraging all together. It has to be the most useless skill in SWG! What in the f#@# am i going to do with 4 units of so and so?!?!?!
Foraging has great potential, it just hasnt been realised.
Survival should be something a ranger is very well versed in. Every skill they have should utilise some sort of survival skill and i dont think removing it will do the profession any good.
Foraging in itself could be made into something extremely important and beneficial to rangers, for instance foraging could be a way to get components use in self ranger buff enhancments, recovery items and even loot.
Rangers should be able to use forage (in a new form and set up) to survive, to aid them but ultimatly to make them more effective.