Ranger Archive
Thread: Rangers and the CU
At least, I hope so... I could be wrong and there will be camopants to pay...
My only worry is that when we are finally, for honest and really worked on... this stuff won't be tested right and we get skrewed again...
Rhyeal wrote:yeah, if they skrew us over with a revamp we dont like...well, they will have most all of the Ranger population leaving. then watch prices for buffs soar sky high cause the meat wont be there. then the combat system will fail, and the whole game will die because the combat classes cant get the money to pay for the goods. Rangers are the keystone of the galaxy. We are small, but without us, the whole game dies.
Isn't this a over-reacting? You don't need master ranger to hunt - 0040 is enough.
Software development is very complex - I can see why something like a ranger re-vamp will not be folded into the combat revamp as its nothing to do with issues like defence stacking.
I would hope that a revamp of the whole profession that allows us justify being master rangers is coming. Right now, we have loads of skill-points tied up in Master Ranger that are wasted because when buffed you don't need rescue, camps, mask scent, camo kits or traps. Terrain negotiation has been obsolete since the arrival of speeders. A revamp that justifies the 4404 skill points is what's needed and a 0004 fix would be too little to make anyone happy.
Fred_Skinner wrote:
The problem for the devs is the combat role. You can't place us in a classic MMO role. Should we be a tank? Not really. State changer, perhaps, but in the devs reworking of the combate ballance would be making us JUST the mezzer. I think that they decided this was not fair. We are not really a primary damage dealer. We are not a med class. So, they have decided to pull us out of the revamp for now and give us, perhaps, a multi-facited combat role (we are a bit of the way there already).
At least, I hope so... I could be wrong and there will be camopants to pay...
My only worry is that when we are finally, for honest and really worked on... this stuff won't be tested right and we get skrewed again...
But do we have to be in a classic MMO role? This isn't a classic MMORPG. We should be the recon/hunters. Information should be one of the most valuable assets in this game. Resources already are. We should be the military scouts and the hunters supplying organics. The two have been combined for centuries(if you had a choice to be guided in the wilderness by a European farmer or a Native American, which would you choose?). But we can't be expected to rely on a big group just to get decent amounts of hide. If they don't plan to give us a combatboost, at least make them give us a harvesting boost. Otherwise they will have an economy that just won't work.
As for the trap front, I say it's a bunch of bull. They just don't want to add more work to the combat upgrade so that the U83R 1337 combat types don't get impatient. They want to get it done so they cut out a profession (2, really) thatneed to be worked on here just because they are in a rush. If the Devs don't think that we are a combat type, tell them to try and master Ranger without ever entering combat. It is impossible. We cannot master our profession without engaging in combat. That alone should be enough to get our combat portion looked at in a combat upgrade. If they aren't doing it, their only excuse is rushing. We spend 28 skill points on skills that are only usable during combat. Why are those skills not considered combat skills that should be looked at in the combat upgrade? The only excuse I can think of is that they think we are patient enough to "wait for a revamp". That is not acceptable.
pkirk25 wrote:
Rhyeal wrote:
yeah, if they skrew us over with a revamp we dont like...well, they will have most all of the Ranger population leaving. then watch prices for buffs soar sky high cause the meat wont be there. then the combat system will fail, and the whole game will die because the combat classes cant get the money to pay for the goods. Rangers are the keystone of the galaxy. We are small, but without us, the whole game dies.
Isn't this a over-reacting? You don't need master ranger to hunt - 0040 is enough.
Software development is very complex - I can see why something like a ranger re-vamp will not be folded into the combat revamp as its nothing to do with issues like defence stacking.
I would hope that a revamp of the whole profession that allows us justify being master rangers is coming. Right now, we have loads of skill-points tied up in Master Ranger that are wasted because when buffed you don't need rescue, camps, mask scent, camo kits or traps. Terrain negotiation has been obsolete since the arrival of speeders. A revamp that justifies the 4404 skill points is what's needed and a 0004 fix would be too little to make anyone happy.
And yet the Smugglers and Squad Leaders are getting double love. They get something from the Combat Upgrade and they have been promised revamps immediately afterwards. What do we get? A vague indication that something might be thrown our way eventually. We don't even get an indication of where on the schedule we would be. And yet we have a skill branch in our profession (and one in our prereq profession) that requires combat and is only useful during combat. Yet that somehow doesn't warrant even getting looked at in a Combat Upgrade. That is just not acceptable. We have been mostly useless since the very beginning and yet they have decided to ignore an obvious chance to help the profession. Why is our trapping tree any less important than any other combat tree? Because it can't be used in PvP (which is wrong anyway)?
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
We all know that the Combat Upgrade is the Dev's focus right now. They are busy trying to balance the math behind the combat system and are not concerned with adding new things to non-combat professions (no, Rangers are not a Combat Profession and will not become one with the CU). Does this remove all hope of love for the Rangers in the long run? No. Immediately following the CU, there will be a series of profession revamps and we are slated to be a part of those (there is no timeline set as of yet). Let's let the devs focus on the CU as we want them to focus on Rangers when the time comes.
Thanks for your patience guys!
Then what are Rangers? Support? Crafters? Combat is an integral part of the profession, we have to kill the creatures we harvest. I understand this isn't really the point of your post, but being the representative of the players this pov worries me. If Rangers are not combat or combat support what could possibly be the vision of the Ranger profession, other than moble harvesters that cost alot more that maintanence fees, power, and lots.
This view effectively removes a Rangers roll in both the GCW, PvP, Highend PvE and well organized groups. What are we left with? Jedi trails guides, and moble harvesters, that is not what I think of when i think of a Ranger even in the SWG context. Ranger is/was my first choice as a profession, but I would have cancelled along time ago if this was known to bethe future of the Ranger profession.
I will check in from time to time as more info comes along. I think the direction the profession is being lead to has nothing to do with what a ranger is, andhas nevercome close to what the profession/skillswere described as. I will hope for the best, but that one highlighted statement, is unfortunatly the last of the hope I've had for the profession that has the absolute most potential in the game. /bye Rangers
Oggram wrote:
Madhi wrote:
We support combat. That means we get into combat but are not the front fighters, nor the million shot per second rifleman. We can't kill with traps, but we can support by adding status effects. The fact that ranger has a skill that involves combat doesn't make it a combat class (do you see tka/ch as a healing professioc cuz of meditation/use of petstims)
So then we get lumped together with combat medics and doctors as combat support characters?
Call me crazy but im pretty certain there will be things in the combat upgrade that directly affect doctors and combat medics, but we get nothing. So my ranger half gets nothing and my rifleman other half is going to get the royal beat down, wonderful.
Point of Fact: your ranger side is 56% of your total skill points. An elite profession (TKM, Rifle, etc) expends 37% of there total skill points.
Madhi wrote:
We support combat. That means we get into combat but are not the front fighters, nor the million shot per second rifleman. We can't kill with traps, but we can support by adding status effects. The fact that ranger has a skill that involves combat doesn't make it a combat class (do you see tka/ch as a healing professioc cuz of meditation/use of petstims)
Ummm what ranger skill adds status effects? Traps? ummm, not Ranger traps, creature only, dizzy = no effect on creatures, any bells ringing?
JuCat wrote:
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
We all know that the Combat Upgrade is the Dev's focus right now. They are busy trying to balance the math behind the combat system and are not concerned with adding new things to non-combat professions (no, Rangers are not a Combat Profession and will not become one with the CU). Does this remove all hope of love for the Rangers in the long run? No. Immediately following the CU, there will be a series of profession revamps and we are slated to be a part of those (there is no timeline set as of yet). Let's let the devs focus on the CU as we want them to focus on Rangers when the time comes.
Thanks for your patience guys!
Then what are Rangers? Support? Crafters? Combat is an integral part of the profession, we have to kill the creatures we harvest. I understand this isn't really the point of your post, but being the representative of the players this pov worries me. If Rangers are not combat or combat support what could possibly be the vision of the Ranger profession, other than moble harvesters that cost alot more that maintanence fees, power, and lots.
This view effectively removes a Rangers roll in both the GCW, PvP, Highend PvE and well organized groups. What are we left with? Jedi trails guides, and moble harvesters, that is not what I think of when i think of a Ranger even in the SWG context. Ranger is/was my first choice as a profession, but I would have cancelled along time ago if this was known to bethe future of the Ranger profession.
I will check in from time to time as more info comes along. I think the direction the profession is being lead to has nothing to do with what a ranger is, andhas nevercome close to what the profession/skillswere described as. I will hope for the best, but that one highlighted statement, is unfortunatly the last of the hope I've had for the profession that has the absolute most potential in the game. /bye Rangers
What direction are we being led, Ju?
you got my point perfectly
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
FWIW, the Sandbox Rangers (as well as some very gracious non-Rangers) fought a valiant fight to get teh Rangers included in the CU, but ultimately the devs decided they would rather wait and give us a proper Revamp rather than what could turn out to be bandaids.
I think this was a very wise decision, because at this point it will take a miracle to fulfill the fun potential this profession has.
BTW, calc when I said "the direction this profession is being lead" I was not refering to you or Nrass. Nrass was an awesome corr, and you have more than filled his shoes..../kow
JuCat wrote:
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
FWIW, the Sandbox Rangers (as well as some very gracious non-Rangers) fought a valiant fight to get teh Rangers included in the CU, but ultimately the devs decided they would rather wait and give us a proper Revamp rather than what could turn out to be bandaids.I think this was a very wise decision, because at this point it will take a miracle to fulfill the fun potential this profession has.
BTW, calc when I said "the direction this profession is being lead" I was not refering to you or Nrass. Nrass was an awesome corr, and you have more than filled his shoes..../kow
I know you weren't referring to us, I was wondering what direction you thought we were being led. If the Devs haven't defined our role, and we haven't had any changes made to our profession, how could we be led anywhere?
Trapping 1:
The discipline of trapping is as old as the Scouting profession. Whether the Scout is setting a trap for his evening meal, or for an encroaching enemy force, the principles are largely the same. Makeshift trap design involves building simple traps out of available resources.
Trapping 2:
Refined Trap Design represents a continuing evolution in the Scouts understanding of mechanics and animal behavior. At this skill level, the Scout may draw upon field knowledge to create more effective devices.
Trapping 3:
Martial Trap Design involves the Scout integrating modern military theory into their trap design and creation process. From this point forward, the Scouts traps become more lethal and more extreme in their effects.
Trapping 4:
The Scout of this level designs traps that are the envy of military forces throughout the galaxy. They could very well be a weapons designer if their interests did not direct them towards wilderness and wild creatures. The Scouts traps have become creative and highly effective.
Advanced Trapping 1:Peerless skill in trap design has led to a sharp eye for danger and rapid mental reflexes. At this skill level, the Ranger can leap to the rescue of a friend in need by drawing the anger and attention of the enemy.
Advanced Trapping 2:
At this skill level, the Ranger experience has shown her the need for new, more effective trap designs. They apply their creative energy to the implementation of traps that will affect multiple enemies at a time.
Advanced Trapping 3:
The Ranger continues their development of more effective trap designs, in order to increase the effectiveness and the lethality of their intentions.
Advanced Trapping 4:The Ranger of this skill level is a peerless artificer in the realm of traps and minor machinery. Their mental reflexes are as sharp as their creations.