Ranger Archive

I do not support the modular camp idea as stated.

First off, it just soundsway too complicated.

Second, from all the modules and functionality, I got the feeling we were becoming a sort of Architect.

Third, when I want a camp, I do not want to have to go through complicated crafting stages (making various parts to make the final product). If I wanted to do that I would have been a serious crafting class.

It would be better to stay with the KISS (keep it simple stupid) philosophy. As is, camps are easy to assemble, easy to use, and provide an valuable service in the field - a healing base - particularly in the wilds of the higher-level less-civilized planets. Lets not screw that up.

I would rather see that the basic functionality of camps be fixed before anything else happens. That means increasing the timerthat camps stay active for higher level camps, and making the field bases quasi permanent (vanish on log out or when recalled, just like a vehicle or mount).

After this, I would like to see new camp concepts introduced, like the fortification, but not as a module. Just as a new item to craft. As for modules, I think the master ranger should get a camp that includes any basic crafting, pet healing, or whatever things that can be done in a city. All in one. No modules.

As for fortifications, I am not in favor of involving squad leaders. Rangers are skills at 'field construction' already, lets not give that up to another class. Lets just expand on that skill so it is more interesting and useful for our class. It would seem to me that Rangers can be viewed as a stealthy vanguard force that comes before the main troops and builds fortifications for the squad leader and her men to run into. Squad leaders dont need the skill. Squad leader development should focus on more group skills since that is how they earn their experience in the first place.

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NRaas wrote:

"He used the words "flesh out the professions." it sounds like the devs have large ambitious plans themselves."

Now you understand why I am pushing for this to be complete very quickly.

• If we aren't quick on the ball, we'll end up with whatever the developers have decided to do.

Mind you, I am sure it will be amazing (I wouldn't expect anything less)...

• But we should make sure they understand our position before they go too far down their path.

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Actually the point I was making is that it sounds like the devs have radical changes as ambitious as what we are proposing in mind already. or is that what you are saying too? We just need to make sure they go with our ambitious plan and not theirs.

People who oppose this ambitious plan because it is too ambitious need to realize this. If not everyone has read Thunderhearts thread on the upcoming combat changes they realy should, it may change peoples minds.

"Actually the point I was making is that it sounds like the devs have radical changes as ambitious as what we are proposing in mind already."

Yes that was what I was saying.

Remember though:

There is months of work going into these changes before they ever hit TC. And I mean months. Most designs are solidified long before they are visible to the end-user.

• January: Design


• Febuary: Implementation


• March: Testing


• April: Release

Meaning if they have ambitious plans now, they are already hard at work at getting those items set up for theMarch / Aprilpublish.

Acutally the camps part in your Outdoorsman report is what I most sketchy about. Although great ideas, some seem way to farfetched and extreme for us to think we could possibly get. I cant remember all the ideas right now, but the only ones that really made sense were these: The one for Musicians/Dancers, the one for Medics/Doctors, and maybe a small military base thing for the SL. But some of the others ones ( again I cant remember all of them ) seem a bit extreme, a shuttleport? Just seems a bit nutty. Thats my take on it, but I dont know **edit**.

Maybe we need a simplified proposal that includes the fundamentals of what you have outlined so that it can be easily viewed and understood byour community and the other's involvedwith a link to the detailed one. then we give a "Yay" or "Nay" vote on wether to offer it to the devs with the understanding that something big is gonna happen and it aint gonna happen soon so we have time to work out the details later.

The problem I think we are seeing is that not everyone fully grasps what we are proposing because they are focusing on one aspect of something they don't like.

So it looks like we can do one of two things, give them nothing right now, and wait to spring this more ambitious plan when they are ready for it. OR give them all of this now with the notion that we are patient and don't expect it all now, but we hope to have it all eventually. And we will continue to tweak it and mold it until they are ready for us.

/agree wholeheartedly:

Gang it's now or end of the summer. Lets do this please. If for no other reason than to get it in front of the devs and let them chew on it. We can debate more AFTER it's in their hands. Do any of us really believe they'll take the whole treatise and say yes to it on its own merits? No way. They'll work with it, and add and subtract what they want. In the interim we can prepare a counterproposal to their counterproposal.

"We can debate more AFTER it's in their hands."

The developers would probably throw it up for debate themselves after having their crack at it (if they decided it was worthy), as they did the CH changes.

"Do any of us really believe they'll take the whole treatise and say yes to it on its own merits?"

What? They don't take the word of amateur game developers verbatim?

"What? They don't take the word of amateur game developers verbatim?"

LOL

Well I liked what I read inthe modular camp thread, I am still fuzzy on certain details like others getting field prepeation abilites, I do like that we could get modules from other classes that could augment our own camps( I remmeber reading and idea that we can make all lesser version modules of every typebut other classes make the more effective versions that were realted to their profession).

Despite the added complexity as long as their is some rise in base functionality as you go up the camp tree I would be happy or so I would think.

I am on board for something new and exciting for ranger in the camp area.

Well said, Rancorrider. I'm sure NRaas cringes whenever my name appears as the "last post" person on the thread, lol.

All kidding aside, folks have spent a lot of energy in discussions on the ranger skills, camping not the least. Since that's the one that leaps to mind, I'll couch my comments in those terms.

In the proposal, I would identify the key capabilities that are sought. Regardless of how they do it, I think there's a pretty solid consensus on what those items are. For example, camp-wise, people want: battle fatigue recovery, creature protection, semi-perm HTFB, and healing enhancements (I'm sure I've left out stuff.. but for illustrative purposes this works). Then there are the "nice to haves" like combat bonus when in camp, humanoid protection, and offensive weapon emplacements. Finally, there's the "while you're at it, wouldn't this be cool" stuff like evac shuttles and faction perks.

So my real concern here is that portions of the proposal-forming effort have been so focused on the "how" we may be loosing sight of the "what" in terms of what is most important to the ranger community. For example, which is more important to us as a whole? Having a camp with a bonus to Doc's and their med/stim pack? Or is it adopting a particular methodology? I know for me, the means is almost entirely secondary to the ends. Give the camps (or camo or tracking) the functionality FIRST. If they adopt the means proposed by NRaas, et al, great. That'd be a nice bonus. I'd just hate to loose the functionality because they hated the proposed means.

Finally, while the ideas that incorporate other classesare nice, it creates a hellava lot of smoke andobscurespeople's ability toclearly identify the core goals. Again, if it works out that way, great. But I don't think it's strategically wise to get our goals so wrapped up in it that the hoped-for results end up in the "bit bucket." The idea for having "camp modules" is innovative and exciting. But don't let the excitement for the idea carry us away fromthe goalswe want to reach atthe end of the day.

Machs N'ihx - Master Ranger, Kettemoor

Well said Machs. Well said.

My main issues with camps as is is losing the HTFBK in combat..low timer..and doesn't repel or heal b/f. Fix whats broken is all I really want. But anything new would be nice ^_^

I am, of course, of the "shoot for the moon" camp. I think that modular camping would revolutionizethe way that Rangers are viewed in terms of group hunting. If you're on a Krayt Hunt, would you rather have a novice scout set up camp or a Master Ranger with a freaking Rocket Launcher tacked onto his camp?

But I can see Macchs point. I think that we need to keep sight of WHY we're asking for modular camps (well, why some of us are asking for it): we want increased usefulness for Rangers, we want BF healing and we want camps to stay up during combat. We also want creature suppression and greater passive healing mods when in camps.

Now in my mind, this is a lot to ask of a camp. For it to do ALL of those things very effectively, all at the same time seems a lot to ask from a camp, even a higher level camp. Why this proposal appeals to me so much is it allows for all of these things to come true and also has the possibility for new and exciting ideas to camping. This proposal allows for all these things and forces a Ranger to make their camp fit the needs at hand.

Man, how can you NOT fight for having a camp with a rocket launcher

Seriously, I think we can get together a proposal together by next week. To assist this, I won't be posting for the next couple of days. lol. Maybe if I stop putting my two cents in, this thing'll happen. On that note, I will not put my two cents in....if people give me those two cents. Everyone one of you. send me two cents a day and I'll stop posting heheh. I think this is an important enough proposal to FORCE us to get it together ASAP. I'll do everything I can to help, even if it DOES mean swallowing my pride and shutting up.