Ranger Archive

Thread: Focus for Top 5 List: Camo(/conceal)

ThGilsRooc
Wed Mar 24, 2004 8:33 pm
#14


KEEP CAMO KITS!!!


Why? At master ranger, I could run circles around rancor with mask. However, I can't run circles around nightsisters without a camo kit. The thing I prefer over mask scent is I can cross the countryside without getting 1-shot-incapped by random NPC's like strong mercenaries.


Camo kits are completely useful. If I have a non-combatant armorsmith friend along with me for a hide hunt, he's usually very thankful that I camo him since he lacks anything other than novice scout.


Anyhow, I never really felt like I could conceal myself until I reached master. Until then, mask would break and camo didn't. If I were crossing tatooine countryside and ran into a tusken raider warlord, I'd rather continue on my path without detection versus making a huge dent in my path to avoid aggro. No... Keep camouflage kits in the game.

Message Edited by ThGilsRooc on 03-24-2004 07:39 PM



Colonel Th'Gils Rooc
Webel Ace Pilot x2
I would ace more squadrons if they'd just fix the remaster bug.
Pulp Phantom
TalKurgan
Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:48 pm
#15

I support keeping camo and camo kits. It works against NPC's. I can apply it to my wookie friend who can't mask his scent worth a darn. I swear, we end up pulling aggro all over the pace like some kind of commando/bh group. It'sso embarrassing... "Master Ranger" being chased across Yavin 4 by a lair of anglers. "It's not my fault! It's the wookie! THE WOOKIE, I tells ya!"


Anyway. Keep the kits. Stick a defense bonus on them too, as per the Outdoorsman proposal.



"And so our player base was coming around the corner and we were all BOOM! HEADSHOT! And then the veterans were coming down the stairs and, you know what? BOOM! HEADSHOT!" -FPSDev
GTOfire
Thu Mar 25, 2004 7:06 am
#16

camo, while not that much better than maskscent, does seem to work just fine without many bugs. I haven't tested it against NPCs lately (used to work, then it didn't, now I lost track) but I hear the devs don't want it working against NPCs, so don't rely on it.


Top Issue:
- Given this, ourhuge baseand /rescue, it's almost as if the solo-class of the game was designed to facilitate other people. For ourselves, maskscent is just as good as /conceal in most cases. Sure it lasts longer, but there's no penalty in re-applying maskscent when it wears off. Potency differs, but not much.I reckon we don't need this skill for ourselves, just for others. So why not delete the /conceal skill and expand /maskscent slightly to have /conceal attributes when your skill mod gets high enough. Give us +maskscent mods rather then +conceal and add a command allowing us to mask other's scent using maskscent kits. Exactly the same as /conceal right now? Just about yeah, but easier to work with. It also removes the need to use a kit on yourself, just on others, which IMHO is fair for Rangers to be able to do.




--------------------------------------------------
Ysh-Hon Eeryuu
General Manager, Intergalactic Society of Megalomaniacs (ISM) Enterprises
ISM Superstore - Tatooine (outside Bestine) -1735, -4917

M Tailor, M Artisan, M Merchant
GoldMemberBria
Thu Mar 25, 2004 10:46 am
#17


I'm still going to argue that /conceal is useless, even to masters, but for those of you arguing that /conceal is more effective than mask scent, keep in mind that there is that stupid /conceal mod that you start getting at, what, wayfairing 1? And it keeps increasing as you go up the tree. Sounds reasonable right? Well no it isn't. What it means is reality is that until you get to like wayfairing 3 or 4 it actually seems to break *more* than mask scent. That's right, so you are pouring skill points into that stupid tree branch, getting cammo kits for planets where you would not possibly need them AND the real kick in the pants is that it works *worse* then mask scent.


So it's like:


wayfairing1: useless


wayfairing2: useless


wayfairing3: useless


wayfairing4: ok, now you can at least /conceal as well ask mask scent if you really want to waste the resources doing it.



Message Edited by GoldMemberBria on 03-25-2004 09:48 AM



Vola Goce - Bounty Hunter/Commando/Hunter
"Doc" Holliday - Smuggler/Combat Medic


Fred_Skinner
Thu Mar 25, 2004 11:08 am
#18

There is a bug with conceal and should be investigated. Some folks it's too good. Some folks it's useless. Me, I can use it for sniping on "some" critters and has never worked against NPC's sense the end of Jan. Howling Rasps drop it every time while Rancors seldom see me. Swoop Gang, NS, the odd no-name thug all attack me as soon as I cross the magical 64m mark.


I usually use it, just in case and to see if they changed it. It has worked at surprising times and failed miserabley at just as surprising time. Overall, I feel the only change should be investigate this possible "overwelming advantage" issue (Kreetles, anyone?) and restore effects to NPC. I'm trying to avoid neg faction as much as possible and this does not help.





Frederick Skinner
Antarian Ranger, Ranger(0030), Master Rifleman, CH(4214)
Ranger is not a profession. It's a lifestyle.


Bumbleb33tuna
Thu Mar 25, 2004 11:28 am
#19

/conceal and camo kits should always stay in the tree reguardless. i think this skill has so much potential, one idea i've always had was make /conceal have first of all avisual effect like a giant shrub or something. Next make /conceal have PVP uses, maybe like a Hide from radar and unless you hold your mouse over the person their name doesn't show up. To make it fair make it dependant on the Skill mod like at master ranger and that camo skill it takes so and so range to detect you or the longer u laster and when it ends you become noticeable again also the pvp would be boosted with Riflemen cover, have it have a increase in duration and u could use riflemen shots and depending on your cover and camo mods itd take the enemy so long to detect you, maybe like if 2 players are within 20m of you while shooting you get uncovered, it wouldn't be that much of a advatage cause its not 2 hard to determine which way the fire is coming form and engaging the target. Also Riflemen shots that are like conceal shot will increase that mod of concealment/cover that will prove the ranger effective and more of a sniper when mixed with riflemen.


Just my thoughts, be gental
BaneShee
Thu Mar 25, 2004 11:30 am
#20


We should keep camo kits. I really like the ideas we have for /conceal in the outdoorsman proposal, in addition they should fix /conceal in the following manner.


/conceal@Wayfaring1 should work betterthan /maskscent@Master Scout and then go up from that point. As it is right now you need Wayfaring4 or MR before it works as well as /maskscent@MS.
TalKurgan
Thu Mar 25, 2004 11:47 am
#21

Just to clarify, /conceal has been working for me against most NPCs. While overt and carrying a TEF, I was able to walk into an opposing faction compound and I was ignored. In the past, I had been attacked on sight. Some NPCs are able to detect me, but it does not seem to break the /conceal.


Gold is correct in observing that at lower levels, /conceal is useless. All my positive experience with the kits has been after I hit master.



"And so our player base was coming around the corner and we were all BOOM! HEADSHOT! And then the veterans were coming down the stairs and, you know what? BOOM! HEADSHOT!" -FPSDev
Wideshot
Fri Mar 26, 2004 12:57 am
#22

- Quite simply it should either work against NPCs or remove it as being a total waste. The fact is can be used on others means nothing as no-one ever asks for it.
Yes it is slightly stronger than Mask Scent on basic planets. On any mid or high level planet it breaks continually (Master Ranger with 125 Cammo) and is no more effective than Mask Scent.
- If it stays it needs to be FAR stronger to even justify using it rather than Mask Scent.
- Fix the bug where creatures attack without warning and without Cammo breaking (same bug applies to Mask Scen)
- Agree with most the ideas in the Outdoorsman regarding how cammo can be made more effective and distinctive from Mask Scent
Aenedor
Fri Mar 26, 2004 5:35 am
#23

I say keep camo kits, also.


I use them on the other members of my hunting group on Lok. They work against NPC's. They make hunting Mynocks a piece of cake except for when I don't concentrate and forget to reapply it group members when it wears off.


I used mask scent on Dathomir, with clothing giving me a total skill of 125 it still broke often. I had a similar experience on Yavin, I couldn't seem to keep mask scent up for more than a minute at a time before it got broke.




Aenedor Tru'shot
Elder Ranger
Imperial Medic - Bringing Healing and Order to the Galaxy.
Nastzguehl
Fri Mar 26, 2004 6:34 am
#24

Keep /conceal and make it worth the points. It should be far better than maskscent.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Regards Heidebaer Baeren


Flynn_Nomad
Fri Mar 26, 2004 10:54 am
#25

There was a time when maskscent was patched/bugged so that it NEVER FAILED, it was too sweet, it lasted about a week...


I went to the Klilink (sp?) temple on Yavin, and ran all the way to the bottom, past like 100 klinlinkks and right up to the queen and /slaped her...


I'm not requesting THAT level of effectiveness for CAMO, but for a Master, something darn well near it.


And it NEEDS to work better on NPC's it needs to disregard faction. period.


And there shouldnt be a "chance to aggro a ranger" by a creature... thats just BS, that encourages not appying it.


I can tell you, having NOT been a ranger or scout for like a month now I DONT MISS MASKSCENT OR CAMO, I just drive past everything.


There is no incentive to be running around on foot, (we'll maybe for a BE or someone milking)


Otherwise resource req'ments and charges , the general crafting of the packs seems ok atm.






--------------------------------------------
Kid, I've flown from one side of this galaxy to the other. I've
seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen anything to make me
believe there's one all-powerful force controlling everything. There's
no mystical energy field that controls my destiny.
CapnKill
Fri Mar 26, 2004 12:44 pm
#26

Why don't we just make Conceal kits unbreakable?


Or make them unbreakable at master level.


A master range should be able to conceal him/her self even from a Krayt.


When it runs out you have to use up resources to make another one.


The higher level you are the longer it lasts.



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