Ranger Archive
Thread: Ranger GCW Idea (facilitates Squad Leader Idea)
Phenix1050
Fri Feb 11, 2005 11:52 am
#14
listen, explaining it over and over won't make me like the idea of adding any RTS elements to this game. I don't want to fall into that role. Again, points for originality, but you're losing points for repetition.
tekniko
Fri Feb 11, 2005 12:37 pm
#15
_Nightrunner_ wrote:This is so harsh. Good ideas are trashed where as hate and venom and rediculous areguments are 5 starred.The environment here is hellish it is no wonder there have been no real improvements in this profession.
While you have an interesting idea, you should not become angry when people here, most of whom truly enjoy the role Rangers currently play, do not embrace your idea. That does not invalidate your vision, it simply means that the people to whom you have presented it do not share your vision. Not everyone enjoys PvP.
As I mentioned before, I am developing Ranger simultaneously with Squad Leader. I find the combination to be very useful for the type of play I enjoy. However, I do not embrace your vision of Ranger. This invalidates neither position, but you will not convince me nor others to side with you through further argument.
Good idea, even so. Creative thinking is good.
Message Edited by tekniko on 02-11-2005 01:38 PM
Kamileon
Fri Feb 11, 2005 12:46 pm
#16
Don't act childish just because people didn't like your idea.
Aelik Orrigo: Smuggler, Pilot, and Ranger. Kettemoor
Bassnet13
Fri Feb 11, 2005 1:22 pm
#17
Phenix1050 wrote:2 fully functioning professions > 1 mishmash profession.
QFE
Phenix1050
Fri Feb 11, 2005 3:25 pm
#18
_Nightrunner_ wrote:
Thanks Almagil. Im realizing that people dont necessarily think the ideas are bad, its just that many rangers are anti-pvp and therefore any GCW or PVP related ideas will not be liked by someone who is not into GCW or PVP. I kinda figured that if if they were not into that aspect then they would not comment on it since it would not affect them, rather than make numerous posts against the feature in attempts to keep rangers who do want to have a more active role in the GCW from doing so.
I am a rifleman/ranger who both loves being a ranger and loves PVP and plans to participate in the GCW. If I am the only one then I apologize. You are right in the sense that I should have taken this to the GCW forums instead. I did not realize so many people here were anti-PVP.
Thanks
For the record, I'm all for PvP Rangers. I simply don't agree with your idea. I think it's different, I think it's unique, but that doesn't mean that I have to think it's appropriate. Being given tons of orders to go here and there makes me cringe. Also the idea of the "fog of war" is kinda sensless, considering we can target people from hundreds of meters away. The biggest weakness with this is that we'd need a larger radar area than everyone else. Otherwise, they see us the second we see them. The technoogy of trying to give certain players larger radar spheres would probably not be possible in a game this size. and again, I don't see a RTS elemeny being that popular. Most squad leaders want to lead from the front. That mean being IN THE FIGHT. Hard to fight when you're trying to give everyone waypoints.
Phenix1050
Fri Feb 11, 2005 3:41 pm
#19
Good to see you're humble about your idea and open to critique and critisism too.
_Nightrunner_ wrote:
This is so harsh. Good ideas are trashed where as hate and venom andrediculous areguments are 5 starred.
_Nightrunner_
Fri Feb 11, 2005 6:24 pm
#20
Lol I see that some of the people who flamed me edited it out, so now I just look like a jerk who is complaining without cause.
Oh well. The ranger boards since I became a ranger has been one of the most hateful profession boards I have been on. I guess i will just try to enjoy ranger without taking the unproductive route of suggeting fresh ideas and trying to discuss your profession.
That is a neat trick flaming people then editing it later to make it look like you didnt say what you did.
Jacquelyn
Fri Feb 11, 2005 6:50 pm
#21
I can understand your position, as I have seen several decent Ideas flamed and some of the people can be a bit rude around here. I think some people are just frustrated with the state of the game in general and you should not take it personally. I actually like the idea. I enjoy role-playing my ranger andtracking down theenemy and scouting around fits into that role for me.Who else to do reconnosaince other than ranger? There is no other existing profession that wouldseem to fit into that role better. But you have to keep in mind that there are many people who do not roleplay and who dont care for PVP and for them tracking and scouting is a boring task for those who dont get "into" their profession.
I enjoy PVP as well and I would welcome enhanced recon capabilities such as you have mentioned. I cannot see how that would add nothing to ranger, and I cant see how what you are asking for should take huge amounts of development efforts either. I think that in turn it is a necesary benefit that rangers should have. Personally if you dont like tracking and the recon aspects of ranger why are you ranger? You can just about harvest as much as a ranger with novice scout, veghash and a droid.
Oh well I know I will get flamed too it is pretty inevitable around here. Anyway it is a good idea, dont let them get you down. Many people are a bit sensitive and nervous these days with all the changes going on. Just be very careful and try not to post too much, there are a few people who have been around here for a while and they seem to think that their opinion is all that matters and will arentto friendly when someone suggests something they dont like.
JadedSpawn
TKM/Ranger
staplesman88
Fri Feb 11, 2005 7:20 pm
#22
I like the Idea! And i am the one who said that they should be Combined! So Flame me! Not him but dont Flame To bad.
Phenix1050
Fri Feb 11, 2005 8:15 pm
#23
staplesman88 wrote:
I like the Idea! And i am the one who said that they should be Combined! So Flame me! Not him but dont Flame To bad.
Reading through this entire post, I've found one flame, and it was from me. The only flame was my insulting the orginal poster for his inability to see any flaws in his idea. The fact that heassumed his own idea good, without considering the posiblity that others might agree that the idea is good, along with the fact that he was complaining that people weren't agreeing, was quite iritating to me. Especially when nobody was calling him names, or insulting him.
But pretty much everyone else was respectful. They simply said they disagreed and stated reasons why. That's not flaming, that's called criticism. Every idea that has been presented needs to go through criticism to make it better, because no idea is perfect. When I wrote the Outdoorsman 2.1, there were many people who disagreed with several of the points of it, and based on feedback, many ideas were changed, and it made for a better document. Criticism is needed because no idea is perfect. And most people said "hey, this idea is good, but I disagree.
There are several flaws inherent in his idea, and I would be more than happy to try and disucss why I think it wouldn't work. But if he cannot accept that his idea might go against what people want in Ranger and also in Squad Leader. I know many Squad Leaders, and I've talked with their correspondant about many issues. Squad Leaders generally want to be viewed as a combat profession that has skills that augment their squad. They want to be on the front lines for the most part, not sending waypoints. The reason is because generally, combat is pretty quick. If a Squad Leader is trying to micro-manage, their squad will end up dead.
As to you, staplesman88, I simply disagree about Squad Leader and Ranger being combined. In my mind, they do different things. A Squad Leader is a profession that makes everybody around them a better combatant by way of their leadership. A Ranger is a person who can be solitary and survive in the wild. A Squad Leader doesn't have the first clue how to track, because they don't need to. A Ranger doesn't have any idea how to lead a squad because their skills are all about surviving in the wilderness. Sitting in a camp doesn't make you able to inspire confidence in a squad, not tell you the best way to attack an enemy squad.
Fixing the problems inherent in the two professions is a better solution because you end up with two good professions with different roles, rather than a profession with two sets of half-working skills that wouldn't see any new material since they'd have TONS of skills. I simply think that Ranger is unique enough to have it's own role, and so is Squad Leader.
That's about all the flames you're gonna get from me staples.
Phenix1050
Fri Feb 11, 2005 8:19 pm
#24
_Nightrunner_ wrote:
Lol I see that some of the people who flamed me edited it out, so now I just look like a jerk who is complaining without cause.
Oh well. The ranger boards since I became a ranger has been one of the most hateful profession boards I have been on. I guess i will just try to enjoy ranger without taking the unproductive route of suggeting fresh ideas and trying to discuss your profession.
That is a neat trick flaming people then editing it later to make it look like you didnt say what you did.
Man...you are PRICELESS
Double-check the time stamps on the things.
Only two posts were edited. One was by Vorpaks at 3:33 today. I'm pretty sure she didn't flame you, because she is one of the nicest people on the forum.
Now your post complaining about people flaming you was posted at 2:04pm.
THE ONLY OTHER POST THAT WAS EDITED WAS EDITED AT 1:38, 26 MINUTES BEFORE YOUR POST.
*EDIT NOTE* I am changing this post because I messed up the time. I originallystated that it was edited at 1:35, not 1:38. Nowords were changed.
Message Edited by Phenix1050 on 02-11-2005 10:25 PM
Almagill
Sat Feb 12, 2005 1:06 am
#25
_Nightrunner_ wrote:This is so harsh. Good ideas are trashed where as hate and venom and rediculous areguments are 5 starred.The environment here is hellish it is no wonder there have been no real improvements in this profession.If this is how people who try to make things better are treated then I can understand why there are so few rangers left.I will just start making posts requesting camp macros from now on... those seem to be the ones everyone loves. Some people like to organize in combat because that is usually the #1 guiding factor in winning a contest. I was simply trying to suggest enhancements to the process to make that easier, while giving ranger a more effective recon role. I probably would have gotten better feedbakc if I asked for a camp macro lol.
Uhm, okay.
First, this proposal adds nothing to Ranger as a profession. There's a whole pile of notes, proposals, suggestions etc stickied up at the header that gives an indication what direction the Ranger community sees itself going in.
Second off, this whole discussion would be better in the appropriate GCW / In Dev / In Concept forums. By all means, come in, ask what Rangers think about the proposal, ask for comments, but don't get bent out of shape when we have differing views to yours.
As for "being organised in combat is the #1 guiding factor to winning a contest", first prize to you for stating the obvious. But you're already preaching to the converted. #1 reason I don't PvP? Hundreds of screaming 13yo's running about like a school outing to the tartrazine factory. I used to PvP, I almost got to enjoy it. But having half a dozen folk who were interested in actually being organised, using tactics and working together compared to a seething mass of spammy, 1337 speeking foul mouthed gits... forget about it.
There was no enjoyment in that for me, so I went back to doing what I did best and what I actually enjoyed.
I have no doubts that suggestions such as your are being considered in the CURB. I also have no doubt that the testers there will give appropriate feedback as to how their professions communities feel about the suggestions the Dev's make. Give Ranger a greater PvP role by all means, but its still something we should opt in to, not be forced into and it's got to be something that is compatable with the existing direction and drive of the Ranger profession.
Finally, the reasons there are so few Rangers has little or nothing to do with our ability to take part in PvP.
Vorpaks
Sat Feb 12, 2005 1:13 am
#26
I think that was his sig.
Almagill wrote:
Also, getting PvP fixed so somebody who wants to craft can also PvP makes little or no sense. You'd have to give them a shedload of SP's, to actually get a combat skill that's worth putting up against others, which of course means giving everyone the additional SP's and then the PvP'ers would just increase their combat skills and keep the imbalance.
I'd personally love to be able to this. I wouldnt be split between so many servers!Edit: Oops, to clear up confusion without further derailment I meant that being able to craft a leotard and then go out and fight effectively (ie: have a hybrid professional template) would be cool. Skill points are fine as they are.
Message Edited by Vorpaks on 02-11-2005 03:33 PM