Ranger Archive
Thread: Ranger GCW Idea (facilitates Squad Leader Idea)
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Vorpaks
Sat Feb 12, 2005 1:22 am
#27
Ouch! Now that was harsh! Give it time. Only about three people responded to your actual idea. Wait until Monday when everyone is sitting around bored at work and you will probably see more action.
_Nightrunner_ wrote:This is so harsh. Good ideas are trashed where as hate and venom andrediculous areguments are 5 starred.The environment here is hellish it is no wonder there have been no real improvements in this profession.If this is how people who try to make things better are treated then I can understand why there are so few rangers left.I will just start making posts requesting camp macros from now on... those seem to be the ones everyone loves. Some people like to organize in combat because that is usually the #1 guiding factor in winning a contest. I was simply trying to suggest enhancements to the process to make that easier, while giving ranger a more effective recon role. I probably would have gotten better feedbakc if I asked for a camp macro lol.
What you are suggesting seems sort of like Teamspeak turned into a game mechanic, which is cool. Or, I should say, the degree of communication Team Speak makes possible turned into a game mechanic. I just started using Teamspeak a while ago and it is amazing how much easier coordinating fights has become. Not everyone has access to Teamspeak though - everyone has access to the game.
I also like how this idea fits in with the whole Recon role idea. This is the first time I've been able to actually visualize exactly how Ranger Recon would be useful.
Just roll with it and don't argue with them - convince them.
_Nightrunner_
Sat Feb 12, 2005 1:25 am
#28
Thanks Almagil. Im realizing that people dont necessarily think the ideas are bad, its just that many rangers are anti-pvp and therefore any GCW or PVP related ideas will not be liked by someone who is not into GCW or PVP. I kinda figured that if if they were not into that aspect then they would not comment on it since it would not affect them, rather than make numerous posts against the feature in attempts to keep rangers who do want to have a more active role in the GCW from doing so.
I am a rifleman/ranger who both loves being a ranger and loves PVP and plans to participate in the GCW. If I am the only one then I apologize. You are right in the sense that I should have taken this to the GCW forums instead. I did not realize so many people here were anti-PVP.
Thanks
Hakai
Sun Feb 13, 2005 1:19 am
#29
_Nightrunner_ wrote:
Lol I see that some of the people who flamed me edited it out, so now I just look like a jerk who is complaining without cause.
Oh well. The ranger boards since I became a ranger has been one of the most hateful profession boards I have been on. I guess i will just try to enjoy ranger without taking the unproductive route of suggeting fresh ideas and trying to discuss your profession.
That is a neat trick flaming people then editing it later to make it look like you didnt say what you did.
If you REALLY want to see a neat trick, you should have seen this one idiot in the scout boards.
He comes in with a posting along the lines of "Scouting is stupid, tell me how to grind it quickly so i can quit it".
JB posted on that one (very colorful if i might say), as well as some of the other scouts. I read this at work, and when i got home and decided to post my own ideas. Read the inital post and almost fell out of my chair laughing.
The poster had edited the posting and made it so that it appeared he was "meekly" asking for help.
JBMat
Sun Feb 13, 2005 3:34 am
#30
Seriously. PvP sucks.
I don't want to play, so now I am covert 99.9% of the time. With the changes, I will be on leave as much.
No, SLs don't get out abilities. Rangers can do what you already propose, as in they can count bodies on an enemy force. Template construction is tough, but a covert Ranger can walk up and do it.
SL is PvP, Ranger is PvE.
even if your idea was implemented, I would not PvP, it's stupid and boring and mainly for 12 yr olds with l33t and uber templates.
JB
Sylow
Mon Feb 14, 2005 8:23 am
#31
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There are several flaws inherent in his idea, and I would be more than happy to try and disucss why I think it wouldn't work. But if he cannot accept that his idea might go against what people want in Ranger and also in Squad Leader. I know many Squad Leaders, and I've talked with their correspondant about many issues. Squad Leaders generally want to be viewed as a combat profession that has skills that augment their squad. They want to be on the front lines for the most part, not sending waypoints. The reason is because generally, combat is pretty quick. If a Squad Leader is trying to micro-manage, their squad will end up dead.
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Upon this i'd advise everybody to take a look at the HL-Mod Natural Selection. ( http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns )
Upon this i'd advise everybody to take a look at the HL-Mod Natural Selection. ( http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns )
As most of you might know, Half-Life is a first person shooter, still the team of Natural Selection managed to combine it with the elements of a real-time tactical simulation. One "commander" leads the team, assigns tasks and so on, the rest are the "grunts" who fight the battle. The mod works very well, has a steady fanbase and the tactics section of the forum there is very interesting to read. Still i dare to say that the speed of combat is significally higher in that mod than in SWG. (5 seconds for a kill in SWG indicates incredibly unbalanced sides. In NS it's a normal occurance.)
All in all, the concept should work even better in SWG than based on a FPS. What i can understand and accept is that you are not willing to take such a role where you have to take the orders of somebody else and can't act on your own. Here i have to mention:
- it's always a matter on how the leader acts. One might tell you to go at this place and then at another place and you have to stick strictly to the orders. I've seen that in NS often. But there are also other commanders who rather give directives, only using the waypoints to help you with navigation, but leaving the way to achieve the objective fully to you. They are more rare and that way of leadership requires much more competence to be successful. But it also works.
- a ranger or any recognaissance would not be commanded that strictly. The order would be "try to find out as much as you can, but come back alive", how you do that would be fully in your hands.
- but most deciding: this increased range of vision would be a bonus to the ranger, not a defining property. The ranger seems much more suitable for that upgrade than any other class, but this surely would not downgrade the ranger in any way. We're not speaking of making the ranger eyes and ears of another class and taking away all other abilities, we're discussing if an ability (which doesn't help the ranger himself, but a SL leading the team) could be added. The viability of the lonely ranger would not be hurt at all with this.
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As to you, staplesman88, I simply disagree about Squad Leader and Ranger being combined. In my mind, they do different things. A Squad Leader is a profession that makes everybody around them a better combatant by way of their leadership. A Ranger is a person who can be solitary and survive in the wild. A Squad Leader doesn't have the first clue how to track, because they don't need to. A Ranger doesn't have any idea how to lead a squad because their skills are all about surviving in the wilderness. Sitting in a camp doesn't make you able to inspire confidence in a squad, not tell you the best way to attack an enemy squad.
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Nobody speaks about making the classes the same. The squad leader relies upon different people and different classes. Send 20 Squad Leaders (with no other skills) into battle and a single brawler will send them home, crying. Your point is completely valid, the ranger doesn't lead in battle. The ranger knows how to survive in the wilderness, to move around and not be spotted. Due to his abilitly to use camouflage he can secretly move close to the enemy (yes, that's a job somebody best does alone... the more people, the easier you are spotted) and bring the direly needed information to the team. Based on the information, the SL will then direct the "grunts" into battle. (Yes, those will be more bound by orders.) No decent SL would require the ranger to fight in the frontline, there are other classes for that.
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Fixing the problems inherent in the two professions is a better solution because you end up with two good professions with different roles, rather than a profession with two sets of half-working skills that wouldn't see any new material since they'd have TONS of skills. I simply think that Ranger is unique enough to have it's own role, and so is Squad Leader.
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I say, the roles of the professions will stay very different, nobody spoke of merging the professions. Rangers can't command in battle, Squad Leaders are not suitable for recognaissance. (Despite having some basic scouting skills.) But i dare to ask, does camouflage also affect other players? Does it remove you from their radar? In the unlikely case that this is true, the ranger already now is a superior scouting-class. If this is not true a doctor or any combat class is currently better for scouting than a ranger as their abilities at least improve their chances of survival when under attack of other players. Thus i personally think that increased detection range would perfectly fit to the "master scout" (not the class but the job) role of the ranger while not hurting it in any way.
Message Edited by Sylow on 02-14-2005 04:25 PM
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