Ranger Archive
Thread: Later...
She saved me from myself. My next response was going to be:
The next person that says if we want to be creature centric, (leave the Ranger prof/go play WoW) is going to get a Size 14 Leezard foot up their bum (mmm....spikey).
Frankly, it's those people who need to get their heads on straight. You need to realize that we went from a potentially unique, creature hunter to a run off the mill mishmash of Jedi/Rifleman, Commando, WS, and Smuggler skills. It's not like we have no basis for being upset that our role is 100% the opposite of what it, well, currently is. What I don't get is why, if you hated to be creature hunters so much, you were Rangers...
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
QFE Paks!
She saved me from myself. My next response was going to be:
What I don't get is why, if you hated to be creature hunters so much, you were Rangers...
lol - Calc - there's your answer right there - a lot of them aren't rangers. And by "not ranger," I mean they have no skillpoints in the profession any more. Most, in fact, haven't had any for a long time. They want the title, but not the challenge.
oh, and good hunting JB! If you're half as good a jedi as you are a ranger/pistoleer, then that iwll be a thing in and of itself.
Iseult
Master Ranger / Mediocre Carbineer
Bloodfin
Message Edited by Iseult on 09-21-2005 02:00 PM
Its been fun, good luck with the new SWG Rogue profession
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
QFE Paks!
She saved me from myself. My next response was going to be:
The next person that says if we want to be creature centric, (leave the Ranger prof/go play WoW) is going to get a Size 14 Leezard foot up their bum (mmm....spikey).
Frankly, it's those people who need to get their heads on straight. You need to realize that we went from a potentially unique, creature hunter to a run off the mill mishmash of Jedi/Rifleman, Commando, WS, and Smuggler skills. It's not like we have no basis for being upset that our role is 100% the opposite of what it, well, currently is. What I don't get is why, if you hated to be creature hunters so much, you were Rangers...
No one said those of that were asking for a more para-military role for Ranger didn't currently enjoy the style of Ranger as it is now. What most of us were saying was that we would MORE enjoy the para military aspect of it. Please don't stereotype us because we are happy with the new aspect being rolled.
Frankly with the Scout and Ranger correspondents both feeling like these new enhancements are a huge negative for the profession I can't help but believe the Ranger community will become increasingly more divided and antagonistic. Very unfortunate indeed.
Sneev wrote:
I too am currently in the process of dropping ranger. The new changes look fun, but not relevant to my preferred role as a creature hunter and explorer. I may try it again with my alt when I am done getting my FS skills, but they don't seem like they will appreciably add to TKM, or to my style of gameplay. PvP holds little or no interest to me, and would mostly mean I ended up associating with people who for the most part I can't stand. I liked the PvE harvesting and exploration role of the current Ranger, despite its faults, but it seems all I will need in the future is some scout skills to achieve that.
Its been fun, good luck with the new SWG Rogue profession
Thanks for the parting snide remark. Good hunting Ranger.
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
Quoted for extra emphasis...I am not sure how many people figured this out yet.
Vorpaks wrote:
We will be what we before... which was not good enough. A lot of people were hoping that this revamp would enhance what Ranger was, instead of making it completely different. I will not be an ultimate hunter with this revamp. My camo will now have a snare, which means I will move very slowly with it on. Not a single one of my new skills can be used while in combat so that means if my traps do not take it out ( a whole lair?) in the first detonation I pretty much have to rely on my combat profession to kill anything - just like before.
I can certainly sympathize with this view, and I am myself somewhat saddened at the loss of things like /areatrack and the wilderness survival focus we had as Ranger. However, one flaw I see in this arguement is that, with the "new" Ranger, Helios has already said that we'll be getting combat mods - things like Accuracy, Speed and Defense mods for Ranged and Melee. So that in and of itself means that, even if EVEYTHING else Paks says plays out 100% true, I WILL have more Ranger skills and mods that come into play when I go to kill something that what I have now. And if we all think that accuracy, speed and defense mods are worthless, why have we always had so many threads and discussions about fighting unbuffed with only foods that tend to bolster those very same mods begin a big part of the discussion on tactics and how one prepares for that?
Sure, I don't think we'll have creature to hit mods, or special attacks geared at creatures, or anything like that. But it's not entirely accurate to say that the new vision of Ranger brings absolutely nothing to the table in terms of abilities once the "first strike" is done either, especially if we do get combat mods as Helios has said. That in itself will make a huge difference in our ability to dish out AND absorb more damage, will it not? And won't having a first strike capability in the first place, with what sounds like the ability to land a health poison DOT, kinetic and heat damage, and a couple of nice states (stun/daze and some kind of snare or root, right?) be pretty useful when fighting creatures? I know it all needs to be tested and we need to see how it will work, but I don't necessarily see any of that as a bad thing. Between having what could be an exceptionally devestating first strike (land all those affects and states in the opening volleys all at once, plus have a few traps laid out to have the critters run at you thru, AND still have all the scout traps at your disposal? Wow!) in terms of states and damage, plus mods for accuracy/speed/defense, and I think Ranger *WILL* be a much stronger creature hunter. And one that it sounds like will have a BETTER chance of getting in close to creatures, laying some traps to nail them as you pull them towards you, and with mods that should mean it'll finally be more effective to have Master Ranger than Master Dancer coupled with your other combat profession when it comes to shootin' or smackin' down (since otherwise those 2 currently offer almost the same mods in terms of ranged & melee defense).
Do I like the snare on camo? Meh, maybe not. Does it make sense to me tho, from a checks and balances / risk vs rewardstandpoint? Sure. We move more stealthy, drop off the radar, and it sounds like we get a camo skill that for once will actually be MORE worthwhile to use than maskscent. Currently how many of us use camo when hunting vs how many simply use maskscent, or even NOTHING with the changes in how things agro with con and CL? Again, I understand what you're saying, but I don't look at some of those changes as necessarily all bad, or exclusionary to those that want to play a hunter. I have EVERY intention of continuing to travel all over Yavin and Endor, just seeing what I see, hunting whatever I come across that looks like fun. And I'll be very very happy to have many of these new skills and mods becuase I really think they WILL make me a better hunter. They just also have the benefit of being useful in situations OTHER than just hunting bolle bols or crystal snakes. I intend to remain a hunter, but I look forward to being useful to my friends, my guild (well, if I find another one), whoever I'm with... 
You are a Ranger because of your gameplay, not your Title.
CuchulainnDarklight wrote:
On the point of Hunting, Ranger will now BE a second combat profession that can help you hunting. Think about that, you dont have to take up a second combat profession to help hunting, Ranger will fulfill that role.
I guess we will just have to wait until play testing to see.
You dont know how much the snare will be, so how exactly do you know what speed you will move with it on? That is the arguement the Jedi use for crying nerf and I would have thought it below you.
Amazingly, this does not insult me as much as you no doubt meant it to.
I did read the skills of rnager when I mastered, unfortunately when I mastered the actual skills either didnt work as they were suppossed or, over time were degraded significantly (like camps).
If you stated it that way in the first place most of us who read it would not have felt offended by your tone. Stating things in a polite manner, especially in the forums, is important if you want people to truly understand your viewpoint, rather than just reacting to your tone. What I read is that you always expected Rangers to by spy-like and anyone who liked hunting camping and the other aspects was a pansy.
My statement has as much validity as the "I have been a creature hunting ranger for more than 2 years and want to stay that way". At least I am not saying that 2/3 of the games content should be gated to others in the profession just to keep me happy.
No one is saying that 2/3 of the games content should be gated to others in the profession just to keep me happy. What they are saying is that they have been a Ranger for over 2 years, this revamp is not the way they wanted to see Ranger go. Later...
There have been many goodbye posts over the years and very few of them have been flamed. Most of the repliesthatI have seen to these posts have been "good luck wherever you choose to go and good hunting." Not this. I personally was sad to see JB's goodbye post, knowing how long he has been a member of the community, even though I expected it was coming. I didn't expect to read it and see this kind of response, even knowing that all of JB's posts qualify as "imflamatory."
JB, no matter how many timesI have personally wanted to walk over and smack him sillyor wash his mouth out with soap, has always been a firm supporter of Ranger and proof that you can play and enjoy Ranger and "pwn" just about everything in the game. (Ok, so he would never use THAT term... my BH is showing!
) Not only a Ranger in-game, he was also a US Army Ranger in real life, and even had poo thrown at him by real howler monkeys in a jungle if I remember one of his stories right. I also remember telling someone that we respected JB (despite his tendency to reduce unsuspecting posters into a quivering gory mass), because he haddone everything in real life that we only pretended to do in game (or wished we could do in game). Regardless of any revamp, the profession and the forum will not be the same without him. Quieter and more polite maybe, but not the same.
CuchulainnDarklight wrote:
ScoerFusou wrote:
I know how you feel JB. I also am one of the oldest Rangers on our server, and I dare say I am the Ranger with the longest amount of consecutive days since I got Master somewhere around October 1st and have never dropped it. I love this profession(well what it used to be) and it kills me to see the direction it is going. I too am very close to unlocking Jedi(2 boxes) and I've been trying to find a way to keep Master Ranger and do Jedi at the same time. The only good thing about this revamp is that it DOES seem really pvp geared and if they drop the reqs I may be able to be a Master Ranger/Jedi and still be pretty decent so I think I'll give that a go. My alt, however, will not be picking Ranger back up. He will be a Master Scout with some combat and probably SL and he will most likely become my main character.
I really dont get this attitude, I mean ALL the Ranger stuff goes into Scout so you can still be creature centric, if playing 1/3 of a game is good enough for you, and youll be better at it with more combat skills. Or you can keep ranger and have even more ways to take down critters.
Or you can take Ranger and play it like a Star Wars Ranger is meant to be. Something I have wanted my Ranger to do for the past 2 years, be a ranger, not some damn bear chasing, camp setting, picnic eating, tour guide ranger that is outclassed in everything by a master scout.
I also see a lot of people saying the new Ranger is geared towards PvP. No it isnt. What it is geared towards is playing ALL areas of the game, not just creature missions. The fact is it looks like its PvP oriented is because you can see a use for things in PvP that are capable of attacking all enemies in the game. That isnt a bad thing, its what every other profession gets.
Fortified camps... hunting blinds... Ranger specials... lure traps... AOE Adh. mesh... bearclaw traps... the ability to go farther and faster and have no one and nothing get in my way...
This revamp is very cool. But in every revamp there will be people who are unhappy because they didn't get what they wanted. Unfortunately this time it is me.
The changes do not enhance the "role" I wanted to play, while leaving avenues open for other playstyles the way I hoped it would. I do not think that is a reason to flame and be flamed. I don't think people are wrong to enjoy or be excited about these changes - ask Calc how I reacted to them as I read them to him over teamspeak. Was there anger or excitement in my voice? (I think I actually choked while chortling in glee over the idea of PvP stealing). However, I don't think I am wrong in saying this isn't what I imagined and hoped for. In saying Ranger will be very different from what it was and what we expected it would be. In saying it makes me sad.
That is not entirely accurate Vorpaks. You will have combat mods throughout the Ranger tree that will enhance your ranged combat profession. With regards to the D&D Ranger argument many people came to SWG and saw "Ranger" and expected to play Aragorn. I for one did not and I was quite surprised that SOE and the community wanted to be Elite Creature hunters. I accepted it but I always hoped SOE would change it to be more in line with what they are implementing now. No revamp will be perfect but SOE is implementing what many of us feel in more true to a Ranger in this setting.
Vorpaks wrote:
CuchulainnDarklight wrote:
ScoerFusou wrote:
I know how you feel JB. I also am one of the oldest Rangers on our server, and I dare say I am the Ranger with the longest amount of consecutive days since I got Master somewhere around October 1st and have never dropped it. I love this profession(well what it used to be) and it kills me to see the direction it is going. I too am very close to unlocking Jedi(2 boxes) and I've been trying to find a way to keep Master Ranger and do Jedi at the same time. The only good thing about this revamp is that it DOES seem really pvp geared and if they drop the reqs I may be able to be a Master Ranger/Jedi and still be pretty decent so I think I'll give that a go. My alt, however, will not be picking Ranger back up. He will be a Master Scout with some combat and probably SL and he will most likely become my main character.
I really dont get this attitude, I mean ALL the Ranger stuff goes into Scout so you can still be creature centric, if playing 1/3 of a game is good enough for you, and youll be better at it with more combat skills. Or you can keep ranger and have even more ways to take down critters.
Or you can take Ranger and play it like a Star Wars Ranger is meant to be. Something I have wanted my Ranger to do for the past 2 years, be a ranger, not some damn bear chasing, camp setting, picnic eating, tour guide ranger that is outclassed in everything by a master scout.
I also see a lot of people saying the new Ranger is geared towards PvP. No it isnt. What it is geared towards is playing ALL areas of the game, not just creature missions. The fact is it looks like its PvP oriented is because you can see a use for things in PvP that are capable of attacking all enemies in the game. That isnt a bad thing, its what every other profession gets.
We will be what we before... which was not good enough. A lot of people were hoping that this revamp would enhance what Ranger was, instead of making it completely different. I will not be an ultimate hunter with this revamp. My camo will now have a snare, which means I will move very slowly with it on. Not a single one of my new skills can be used while in combat so that means if my traps do not take it out ( a whole lair?) in the first detonation I pretty much have to rely on my combat profession to kill anything - just like before.
Anyone who wants to remain (or become) a effective creature hunter will most likely drop Ranger and pick up a second combat profession. Which is actually what most people who wanted to be effective creature hunters did before this revamp, and didn't like doing at all. Before you heard of this revamp would you have considered the advice "Well just drop Ranger and pick up a second combat profession if you want to be good at killing stuff and NPCs!" to be good advice? Would it have made you feel good? It certainly didn't make me feel good, and it doesn't make me feel good now either. Ranger was pretty much a liability to being able to hunt efficiently before this revamp, and it will still be a liability after this revamp. However, it will now be good at other things. For many of us the problem is we didn't want those other things as much as we wanted the dream we had of Ranger living up to the potential we saw at launch. Many of us have had those dreams for over two years, and they die hard.
I really don't understand this line: "Or you can take Ranger and play it like a Star Wars Ranger is meant to be. Something I have wanted my Ranger to do for the past 2 years, be a ranger, not some damn bear chasing, camp setting, picnic eating, tour guide ranger that is outclassed in everything by a master scout." Did you not read the description of the skills before you picked up the profession? I did - both the in-game description and the one in the manual. And I chased "bears," set camps, and yes, gave tours based on the exploration I had done. And I enjoyed it. I wouldn't have read, loved, and contributed to the Outdoorsman proposal if I didn't. The things I didnt like about the profession was that gradually other professions were able hunt, survive, and explore as well or better than I could, and do other things in addition. So I don't really understand where you are coming from. At all.
I would suggest practising a little sympathy, let us say our piece, and wish us good hunting when we move on.
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
Quoted for extra emphasis...I am not sure how many people figured this out yet.
Vorpaks wrote:
We will be what we before... which was not good enough. A lot of people were hoping that this revamp would enhance what Ranger was, instead of making it completely different. I will not be an ultimate hunter with this revamp. My camo will now have a snare, which means I will move very slowly with it on. Not a single one of my new skills can be used while in combat so that means if my traps do not take it out ( a whole lair?) in the first detonation I pretty much have to rely on my combat profession to kill anything - just like before.
Calc,
There were always two camps within theis forum that believed Ranger could be more. One saw it as Creature Hunter and the other camp always thought it should be more in line with a Spec-ops style military unit. One camp was significantly more verbal then the other camp till recently. That was one of the things I tried to shake up when I first came to the forums if you recall me often calling it the "Ranger Six" as there were essentially six members of the forum defacto stating their opinion as that of the entire community. If you disagree with any of the "Six" you were instantly assaulted. I feel for those members whom do not like the Revamp and as I stated before perhaps SOE can add an Outdoorsman/Elite Hunter class into the game. Many of us wanted the Ranger as it will now become. That does not makeus wrong.