Ranger Archive

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Electro5 wrote:

3 trees instead of 2, yes. But it also only requires a single Novice profession instead of 2, which keeps the skill point cost the same. The only possible inconvenienceI can see is that you have to level up 3 trees instead of 2, but frankly Scouting trees are unbelievably easy to level in a decent group anyway.

In the end when you get a final template, all that matters is the skillpoint cost. And if your going to be really specific, you actually get1 extra point to work with as opposed to other hybrids.

Message Edited by Electro5 on 09-23-2005 09:55 AM

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Three trees of scout actually makes it worse for everyone. Consider the new prereqs combat requirement, albeit marksman just for discussion.

So you spend 29 for the Scout prereq and then 29 for marksman prereq.58 points total for the prereqs and some minor combat ability. Remember you got to kill stuff to get Scout XP.

Now look at Scout 4440 for instance 15+14+14+14=57 points versus 58 looks like we come out ahead in this example but we don't.

You forget that Scouts & Rangers cannot kill anything without a combat skill backing them up.

So factor in the prereqs for a novice combat skill also 15+14=29 more points.

So with the devs design youneed 58 points for the prereqs for Ranger, with Scout 4440 you still need 29 more points tied up in a novice combat skill. That novice combat skill is your foundation for your Master combat skill. So instead of needing 58 points to be a novice Ranger it is 86 for Scout 4440 and 72 for scout 4400.

By sticking to scout 4400 or scout 4440 you penalize every Combat MasterRanger by14-28 points. Those are alot of points to give up in this game just to reach Novice Ranger

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Calculus_Entropy wrote:

Max, we aren't getting weapons specials (as of this moment). We are only getting Generic combat mods.

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Your forgetting Commando's unarmed 4 as well. But niether Smuggler or Commando benefit from Unarmed as far as i know.

You know George. He's a friend of Fred. Then theres the connection to Bob that you went to school with.

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Rolfie wrote:

Three trees of scout actually makes it worse for everyone. Consider the new prereqs combat requirement, albeit marksman just for discussion.

So you spend 29 for the Scout prereq and then 29 for marksman prereq.58 points total for the prereqs and some minor combat ability. Remember you got to kill stuff to get Scout XP.

Now look at Scout 4440 for instance 15+14+14+14=57 points versus 58 looks like we come out ahead in this example but we don't.

You forget that Scouts & Rangers cannot kill anything without a combat skill backing them up.

So factor in the prereqs for a novice combat skill also 15+14=29 more points.

So with the devs design youneed 58 points for the prereqs for Ranger, with Scout 4440 you still need 29 more points tied up in a novice combat skill. That novice combat skill is your foundation for your Master combat skill. So instead of needing 58 points to be a novice Ranger it is 86 for Scout 4440 and 72 for scout 4400.

By sticking to scout 4400 or scout 4440 you penalize every Combat MasterRanger by14-28 points. Those are alot of points to give up in this game just to reach Novice Ranger

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It wouldn't make it worse for everyone, it would make it worse for a Ranged profession, while improving it for a Melee profession, and keeping it balanced between the two. I'd just like to not have another profession go only to Ranged to be effective.

No, there is no one in real life combat situations who will use only a melee weapon. True, there are only very few people in canon that used any type of melee weapon mainly (aside from Jedi). But the professions are in the game, and as long as they are its not really fair to just just continue to take away any variety from them.

Maybe they should just combine the Ranged and Melee professions and remove the brawler profession altogether.... Pistoleer also gets Fencer weapon certs and specials, Carbineer gets Pikeman certs and specials, Rifleman gets Swordsman certs and specials, Smuggler or Commando getTKA certsand unarmed specials. That would fit more "realistically" to everyone using a gun and only a melee weapon for backup.

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Calculus_Entropy wrote:

Max, we aren't getting weapons specials (as of this moment). We are only getting Generic combat mods.

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I know Calc, I know man... I pray they get a hole drilled into their dev heads to allow their insanity to end. Till then its all about hope.

Devs,

Please try leeches, skull drilling, drugs, expensive psychogists, or a lot of whiskey. What ever it takes for you to make Ranger into a REAL combat profession. Please I will beg if I must!

Yea and I think drugs and booze help people to be sane not the other way around lol.

Max-

Well there is one difference between 3 lines of scout and 1 line of a basic combat proof and one line of scout. Rangers will have to take an added combat profession on the side anyway. Weather that will be meelee or range, and thus will have to pay for the novice anyway. So 3 lines of scout + 2 lines of a combat profession, and 2 novices as the pre-req. Even if the elite you choose and the hybrid you choose do not overlap it will only be 4 lines and 2 novices for other choices.
Say Commando/Pikeman, or Smuggler/Carbineer.

With a cost of 2 lines of scout we will end up having the same cost as thoughts two professions, what ever elite combat profession we choose. Even if one of the pre-req lines for us is explore 4 we and we choose BH as a combat profession, we will still have the same cost as say a BH/Rifleman, or Comando/Pistoleer. (3 lines and 2 novices)

2 lines of scout would also put us in the same boat as Doctors, another support profession. And as the devs have stated that we would not get weapons specials as other hybrid combat professions have there is serenely an argument for us not being a proper hybrid profession.

BTW doctors get a +50 Melee Defence and +50 Range Defence. (but no offensive mods)

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Tarnak_Archvold wrote:
Well there is one difference between 3 lines of scout and 1 line of a basic combat proof and one line of scout. Rangers will have to take an added combat profession on the side anyway. Weather that will be meelee or range, and thus will have to pay for the novice anyway. So 3 lines of scout + 2 lines of a combat profession, and 2 novices as the pre-req. Even if the elite you choose and the hybrid you choose do not overlap it will only be 4 lines and 2 novices for other choices.
Say Commando/Pikeman, or Smuggler/Carbineer.

With a cost of 2 lines of scout we will end up having the same cost as thoughts two professions, what ever elite combat profession we choose. Even if one of the pre-req lines for us is explore 4 we and we choose BH as a combat profession, we will still have the same cost as say a BH/Rifleman, or Comando/Pistoleer. (3 lines and 2 novices)

2 lines of scout would also put us in the same boat as Doctors, another support profession. And as the devs have stated that we would not get weapons specials as other hybrid combat professions have there is serenely an argument for us not being a proper hybrid profession.

BTW doctors get a +50 Melee Defence and +50 Range Defence. (but no offensive mods)

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there is a huge difference... no scouting branches will assist with combat...none! Carbines will. We are a ranged combat professions regardless of who thinks we should not be... We will not get rifles (though I hope i am wrong cause that would rock!) and I doubt pistols since smugglers already ate that up, same with ranged support for BH...

I doubt this is gonna change.

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Fodder650 wrote:
Your forgetting Commando's unarmed 4 as well. But niether Smuggler or Commando benefit from Unarmed as far as i know.

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Maxanto wrote:

there is a huge difference... no scouting branches will assist with combat...none! Carbines will. We are a ranged combat professions regardless of who thinks we should not be... We will not get rifles (though I hope i am wrong cause that would rock!) and I doubt pistols since smugglers already ate that up, same with ranged support for BH...

I doubt this is gonna change.

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We do NOT need Speed modifiers to get an increased damage potent ional. And frankly if the choice is between allowing Melee ranger to have at least a little room to manoeuvre with is going to cost range rangers (and carbineer rangers in patikuler) a little extra that is still for the better of the profession.

Personally I am a Carbineer, so I am not arguing out of self interest here. I had planed to pick up some medic and BH skills on the side and a Carbineer 4 and Exploration 4 would as sutch be free for me.
But We have already had one split with the master of hunting rangers, to add another with the melee rangers, is totally unnecessary.

More over Carbineer is a combat style more then it is a weapon. The different combat profession offer combat styles, different ways to fight. Moreover, favouring carbineer over other styles is just unfair. Why should troughs that enjoy a particular style of combat have an easier time as a Ranger then others?

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Maxanto wrote:

We can continue to preach over the poor melee/ranger's all day long and it will never change what is. For me I could care less... Atiro will still be more of a PVE toon than PVP as I will be keeping master scout. So would I personally prefer just the 2 branches in scout? Heck yea! IS that gonna happen? No.

So bend like a reed in the wind or snap and die...

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Your probably right about it not changing, but it never hurts to try anyway. They're asking for our opinions, so that at least gives some chance they'll listen. Whether or not anything comes about because of it, no harm in discussion and suggestion.