Ranger Archive
Thread: Harvesting bonuses, a couple of weeks in.
Calculus_Entropy
Thu Mar 17, 2005 8:06 am
#14
Now try it on a Durni and a Kimo. The larger the critter, the larger the difference between what a Master Ranger and Novice Scout will harvest (it's always been this way).
DaveG wrote:
My experiences are inclining me to only group with master rangers. Particularly after hunting with a 4x4x scout, we were hunting mountain squills on Tatooine. Both harvested bone, he got around 115 units per corpse, and I was getting 145 units per corpse. So the difference between a 4x4x scout and a master ranger (in a group) was about 30 units of resource. So it seems to me, the skill point investment issue is still far from resolved, despite them givingmaser rangersa +60 harvesting mod.
DaveG
Thu Mar 17, 2005 8:17 am
#15
Obata wrote:
As has been posted previously, the multiplier used in determining harvests is (1+hm/100). If you want to compare harvesting numbers, you have to use that polynomial, not just the harvesting modifier. I f you use it, you'll see that all the numbers come out as expected. A master ranger has a multiplier of 2.5 ungrouped, and 3.0 when grouped with a non-ranger. A novice scout has a 1.15 multiplier when ungroup and 1.61 when grouped witha master ranger. If you want to apply the grouping bonus directly to the harvesting modifier, then you have to also distribute it to the other term of the polynomial (the 1). It's simpler to just add the 1 and then multiply by the bonus.
Message Edited by Obata on 03-17-2005 10:11 AM
Before I reply in more detail to that, could you give me the link to what has been posted previously please?
Okay, but talking about a Kimoliga is rather extreme, as unless you're a very good rifleman, you'd always be tackling such a large thing as a group anyway. Don't you think it should be proportional to harvesting skill?
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
Now try it on a Durni and a Kimo. The larger the critter, the larger the difference between what a Master Ranger and Novice Scout will harvest (it's always been this way).
Calculus_Entropy
Thu Mar 17, 2005 8:25 am
#16
DaveG wrote:
Okay, but talking about a Kimoliga is rather extreme, as unless you're a very good rifleman, you'd always be tackling such a large thing as a group anyway. Don't you think it should be proportional to harvesting skill?
I used the Durni and Kimo example to show that the differnce (between a Scout and a Ranger in a group) in harvesting a small creature was much less that the difference in harvesting a large creature. Using squills and saying 'I only harvested 45 more units' does not paint an accuratebig picture.
I guess I don't know what you mean by "Don't you think it should be proportional to harvesting skill?"
Obata
Thu Mar 17, 2005 8:34 am
#17
DaveG wrote:
Obata wrote:
As has been posted previously, the multiplier used in determining harvests is (1+hm/100). If you want to compare harvesting numbers, you have to use that polynomial, not just the harvesting modifier. I f you use it, you'll see that all the numbers come out as expected. A master ranger has a multiplier of 2.5 ungrouped, and 3.0 when grouped with a non-ranger. A novice scout has a 1.15 multiplier when ungroup and 1.61 when grouped witha master ranger. If you want to apply the grouping bonus directly to the harvesting modifier, then you have to also distribute it to the other term of the polynomial (the 1). It's simpler to just add the 1 and then multiply by the bonus.
Message Edited by Obata on 03-17-2005 10:11 AM
Before I reply in more detail to that, could you give me the link to what has been posted previously please?
What was posted, is the harvesting formula that was derived using all the testing data. It is found here.
Message Edited by Obata on 03-17-2005 10:36 AM
DaveG
Thu Mar 17, 2005 10:49 am
#18
Thanks, I'll have a look at that.
Calc, what I meant by proportional, was the amount harvested be proportional to one's harvesting skill. The non-linear difference in harvesting between novice scout and master ranger show's that it isn't proportional.
Obata
Thu Mar 17, 2005 11:12 am
#19
DaveG wrote:
Thanks, I'll have a look at that.
Calc, what I meant by proportional, was the amount harvested be proportional to one's harvesting skill. The non-linear difference in harvesting between novice scout and master ranger show's that it isn't proportional.
The relationship between the harvesting mod and the amount harvested islinear. The system was designed to that a player with a +100 modifier would harvest twice the base amount (what a theorectical player with a +0 modifier would harvest). That means that with a harvesting modifier of +100, your skill accounts for half of your harvest. The other half is a base amount harvested by anyone who can harvest. That makes the base amount the y-intercept of the line. The linear equation is close to y=base*x+base where y is the amount harvested and x is the harvesting modifier expressed as a percentage.
Edited to correct my math.
Message Edited by Obata on 03-17-2005 01:25 PM
Almagill
Thu Mar 17, 2005 11:37 am
#20
* Has the grouping bonus encouraged you to group more?
Nope, I group as often as before, or as little, depending on how you look at it.
* If you are a master ranger, do you only feel inclined to group with other master rangers?
Though I recently dropped MR, I didn't feel inclined to group with only master rangers. Nor do I
now only group if an MR is in the group.
If I am grouped and there is a Ranger or MR in the group I will TRY to be near them when I harvest,
but if I'm slow getting to the prey or they need to wander off, I don't worry about it.
Nope, I group as often as before, or as little, depending on how you look at it.
* If you are a master ranger, do you only feel inclined to group with other master rangers?
Though I recently dropped MR, I didn't feel inclined to group with only master rangers. Nor do I
now only group if an MR is in the group.
If I am grouped and there is a Ranger or MR in the group I will TRY to be near them when I harvest,
but if I'm slow getting to the prey or they need to wander off, I don't worry about it.
Greywulf0
Thu Mar 17, 2005 12:49 pm
#21
"Has the grouping bonus encouraged you to group more?"
Yes and no. I was a master ranger for nearly 6 month. During that time, my guild grew from a few (less than 10) active members to about 40 active members. Whenever I took on a contract, there were few scouts and those were mostly novice, so I tended to just solo hunt. When my guild started growing, and we got more organized, we started doing some high content activities like going to the vette, hunting krayts and NS. I really enjoyed grouping and helping my guildies! That was when I decided to drop ranger, not just for combat abilities, but because I also didn't want a profession that did not encourage grouping.
When the change first came out, the only thing I had noticed was the big bonus to harvesting when you reached master ranger. I though, "it just isn't worth it." But when I discovered that the took out the ridiculous penalty and replaced it with a bonus, that was when I decided to go back to being a ranger. I am now a 4/1/4/4 ranger and I am looking forward to mastering it all over again!
"If you are a master ranger, do you only feel inclined to group with other master rangers?"
Not in the least. Sure, if I see a master and s/he wants to group, I'll gladly join. But the true fun I have is when we operate in a cohesive unit. There are a few people in my guild that when we group together, we can overcome most any opponent. We all know what our individual functions arewhen combat hits, and this makes the game very fun.
Aerec_Krouse
Thu Mar 17, 2005 2:06 pm
#22
Hmmm... I'm a master Ranger and lately I've been hunting with another Ranger - not a Master (yet!) As far as I'm concerned, I harvest more, he harvests more. The flip side to this is, he's a much better pilot than I am, and as I've just got the Space Bug (I blame DaveG ENTIRELY for this by the way 
) he's helping me a lot in space. It's one of those syphaliptic symphonic Mutually Beneficial (there we go) things.
I agree with Dave about the skill point investment, luckily, I'm not worrying too much about who harvests what amount
) he's helping me a lot in space. It's one of those I agree with Dave about the skill point investment, luckily, I'm not worrying too much about who harvests what amount
DaveG
Thu Mar 17, 2005 5:27 pm
#23
Aerec, I'm so sorry for giving you the space bug. 
Obata, If you dont' mind I'll PM you about that formula. I'd like to discuss the derivation, but it'd be OT for this thread. Ok?
Ymegaar
Thu Mar 17, 2005 5:53 pm
#24
Hmmm...I'm working my way through Ranger and lately been hunting with a Master Ranger. As far as I'm concerned, I harvest more, he harvests more. The flip side to this is, he's been inflicted with the Space Bug, (aparently he blames someone called DaveG for this?)but as he's only a rookie Pilot - not a Master (yet!)I'm keeping eyeballs and pirates off his back. It's one of those syphaliptic symphonic Mutually Beneficial (there we go) things.
Thankfully he's not worrying too much about who harvests what amount.
yme
Nemo0
Thu Mar 17, 2005 6:39 pm
#25
DaveG wrote:
Aerec, I'm so sorry for giving you the space bug.
Obata, If you dont' mind I'll PM you about that formula. I'd like to discuss the derivation, but it'd be OT for this thread. Ok?
Just so you know, both Obata and I came up with that exact formula independently (and from different data sets). And, if he's anything like me, the formula probably just seemed semi obvious to him when he looked at the data (you could probably fit a line to the data with some sort of program but that's way too much work).
Obata
Thu Mar 17, 2005 8:48 pm
#26
Nemo0 wrote:
DaveG wrote:
Aerec, I'm so sorry for giving you the space bug.
Obata, If you dont' mind I'll PM you about that formula. I'd like to discuss the derivation, but it'd be OT for this thread. Ok?
Just so you know, both Obata and I came up with that exact formula independently (and from different data sets). And, if he's anything like me, the formula probably just seemed semi obvious to him when he looked at the data (you could probably fit a line to the data with some sort of program but that's way too much work).
Yeah, that's pretty much how I got to it too. I had data from before the master ranger harvesting increase, so it was a little easier (seeing as the mod was +100 then). I really just noticed that a MR was harvesting 33% more than a MS, as opposed to the expected 100%. Then, by processes that are kinda hard to explain, I decided to try the 1+mod formula and it worked. It has worked for all the data that has been collected since then too.