Ranger Archive
Thread: Conceal kits too Specalized
Sorry, i still cant see it.
If you offer to pay 20k for the artisan's survery skills, and then pay for his travel expenses, why would they not want to do it? Even then you dont necesarly have to do that, there is website that has all known resources and where they are istn there? Why not use that and head out to place your harvesters to get what you need.
Sure it is expensive, if you need the resources what else can you do?
As for the driod surveyor, i like this idea, however is that robbing income from artisans and giving it to DE?
I also like the forage idea, but again, not sure if this is practical. If we can forage and item, we need 20 or so of each item to do so from memory so it would take ages for you to make one kit if it was all foraged.
So we need to head to town, its not total unrealistic to do so. Im not aware of any ranger in any possible scenario that will not have to venture into a city every now and then, unless you plan on shotting your hunts with spit, you will have to venture to a town to get new weapons, so why not do the same for resources that we cant gather ourselves. By the rational that some are using we should be able to just use our own resources and be able to survive without the use of any other character, well im sorry to say, this is never going to happen. Its not what the devs have in mind, and i for one agree with it.
You want people to emply you to help them out on hunts? Yet you dont want to employ those same people to gather resources for you? Its a too edge sword!! Aks them to pay you in the resources you need etc..
There are just so many options to get the flora resources its amazing this is even a discussion. Its just that alot of you want to do everything yourself and not prepared "to work with others" to do so.
Yes we are rangers, yes we are master of the wild, yes we can stand by ourselves! But we need assitance in a few things. (Weapons, armour etc..) Now we need help with resources we cant harvest, so what! Get over it and spend the money you gain from doing those explorer mission (which are now easier due to the areatrakc command) and pay some else to provide a service for you!! What are you keeping the money for? You should be able to make 20 - 30k per hour easily as a decent ranger, why not use that to employ someone to get you the resources you need!!
Just kidding, more likely I'll rotate a couple of medium harvesters through each planet so I can get a good supply (10k+) of each type needed for camo kits. I already do a brisk business in Nabooian fiberplast, and frequently drop floral harvesters on places like Lok and Dantooine for those specialized resources.
Isa Lodeah
Surveyor and Ranger
Corbantis
TookrakLarrin wrote:
Sorry, i still cant see it.
If you offer to pay 20k for the artisan's survery skills, and then pay for his travel expenses, why would they not want to do it? Even then you dont necesarly have to do that, there is website that has all known resources and where they are istn there? Why not use that and head out to place your harvesters to get what you need.
Sure it is expensive, if you need the resources what else can you do?
You probably can't see it, because you yourself allready have artisan skills and can go find the resourcesyou need(since in you mention allready having a vendor).
20k per planet, for a waypoint that we have tomine ourselves? You have to mean per-planet, because any half-succesfull artisan would laugh at 20k for waypoints on all planets.. decent ones at least. Thats what I'm talking about. A weaponsmith pays 20k for a good resource waypoint because he'll see a much higher return of profit from the resources he gets off of those harvesters. How exactly are rangers going to make that profit? Conceal, while neat, will never be a must-have item - and certainly never a money maker. Forcing a Ranger to play this resource game is akin to a doctor trying to pay for all of his medical resources with only the money he makes from selling 'buffs'. Because, in many ways,buffs are just like conceal, only a whole lot more usefull and sought after (they even last longer).
Rangers are almost being forced into a semi-merchant class, howeverwe're probably the only 'class' that can only sell our craftables to others of our own profession, who can allready make their own anyways. This is a problem.
As for the driod surveyor, i like this idea, however is that robbing income from artisans and giving it to DE?
I also like the forage idea, but again, not sure if this is practical. If we can forage and item, we need 20 or so of each item to do so from memory so it would take ages for you to make one kit if it was all foraged.
I don't see how a droid surveyor is 'robbing income' from artisans, let alone giving it to DEs? I've never met a 'pure surveyor' that wasn't primarily a crafter, who used his surveying for his own purposes. I'm not saying they dont' exist, but I can say this isn't the primary income for enough people to matter. And regardless, a real surveyor will still find resources much more effectivly, and also be able to tell the quality of those resources without having to throw a harvestor down first.
I don't think forage is a good idea for it - but I could see a flora-specific surveying ability added to the ranger line. Actually I really like that idea. Maybe another kit, made with steel/nonorganics like a camp kit: 'Field Survey Kit'.
So we need to head to town, its not total unrealistic to do so. Im not aware of any ranger in any possible scenario that will not have to venture into a city every now and then, unless you plan on shotting your hunts with spit, you will have to venture to a town to get new weapons, so why not do the same for resources that we cant gather ourselves. By the rational that some are using we should be able to just use our own resources and be able to survive without the use of any other character, well im sorry to say, this is never going to happen. Its not what the devs have in mind, and i for one agree with it.
The problem isn't that we're having to use resources we can't attain naturally. I have no problem acquiring metal or polymer to use in building camps or traps, yet we can't harvest that ourselves. I buy gobs of those resources too, as they're highly available. The problem is, we have to hunt down several specific materials in order to construct the traps - one of which we cannot get ourselves, and is NOT readily available from other merchants, because it is so specific, and in several cases and over time, will be worthless in the eyes of other artisans and thus not harvested.
You want people to emply you to help them out on hunts? Yet you dont want to employ those same people to gather resources for you? Its a too edge sword!! Aks them to pay you in the resources you need etc..
I have never been payed to help someone on their hunts. I probably won't get paid much to put conceal packs on someone, they'll mostly be for myself. So I end up paying 'those people' to get resources I need, yet won't see equivlant income from the resources, let alone a profit. We're not a 'crafting class' per-se, and to hold us to crafting standards or crafter restrictions is not right.
There are just so many options to get the flora resources its amazing this is even a discussion. Its just that alot of you want to do everything yourself and not prepared "to work with others" to do so.
Yes we are rangers, yes we are master of the wild, yes we can stand by ourselves! But we need assitance in a few things. (Weapons, armour etc..) Now we need help with resources we cant harvest, so what! Get over it and spend the money you gain from doing those explorer mission (which are now easier due to the areatrakc command) and pay some else to provide a service for you!! What are you keeping the money for? You should be able to make 20 - 30k per hour easily as a decent ranger, why not use that to employ someone to get you the resources you need!!
So many options? Hardly, there are 3 at most - all of which are a large money sink except one (learning artisan itself). Yes, you can pay somone else to find you a waypoint to good resources, and keep paying them every resource shift. And paying for harvesters, their power, and their maintenance. But for what? A camo kit that more than likely will just be used on yourself.. ? Then there is the final option, finding them on vendors - which so far is showing as no option at all. As I've explained, if its not got good quality, and isn't in demand from other large amounts of crafters, you won't see it in big enough quantities for this to be a viable option.
A much much better option:
Remove the tons upon tons of planet specific resources, have maybe 2 planet specific hunting 'harvested' types, 2 non-organics (like metals and polymers), and one planet specific flora. Then, give rangers a flora-specific surveying ability or 'field survey device' so they can locate areas to place harvesters of their own (I like this idea much more than my droid one).
This way we're still forced to go to outside sources for materials, but those materials are MUCH easier to come by. Those are also materials we can use for multiple other items we can craft, such as camps and traps. We're still forced to 'hunt down' certain ingrediants, including the rarer floras.
i still think forging would work. all that need to be done is lower the amount need to make the item to 2 to 5 forged items.
Again i got to say, i got no Prob using metals for traps/camps. Now lets look at what the Dervs had in mind when they gave us traps and camps.
They made the lower, rudimenteray, traps and camps need only bone and hide to make.This makes alot of sence when uthink about the fact that those low end items were made from things found in the wild (bones and Hide). Once the traps and Camps became more advance the included a Metal component, that to me make sence and i got no Prob with it,Those items are no longer items madefromsimple items found in the wild. So if a ranger wants these camp he has to get the metal by going back to town. BUT if the ranger wants to live off the land he can still stay out and away from the town by using the camps and traps made from wild items only.
The prob i got is, to me its NOT that hard to make a camo kit. To me its harder to set up a camp or constuct traps. So to meagain the Flora component does not make sence.Taking the Corillean camo kit for example. Domesticated Wheat???? for a camo kit??? i dont getit.
Oh i just made 2Corillean Camo kits. Guess what? I got 2 charges per kit......yep i said 2. Jebus told me the Talus camo kits he made gave him 3 per Kit! Hmmm so lets see. I got a team of 20 i need to camo up. ROTFL i dont want to do the math on that one right now.
Plz dont get me Wrong i am a ranger and will stay a ranger. i luv the Prof and the lifestyle.
But like someone said a few posts back. I should not have to waist 15Skillpts or have to barter with some City Bumpkin to beable to hide myself in the wild.
Indee
Ranger/Rifleman
I just cant see why a ranger...a guy who is all about survival in the wild, a hardened and skilled hunter and general kickbutt guy in the outdoors, should need to wander in to town to ask someone to sell him some flowers. I have a real problem with the floral requirement only because it is something that we simply cannot get with the skills provided in the ranger tree. And the ranger is ALL ABOUT dealing with danger with just what he can come up with on his own...thats what a ranger is, right?
I say, give us the ability to gather flora with forage...medical forage does that...why not ranger/scout forage? that way, we might have to spend some time looking for the right stuff, but WE can do it for ourselves. That is why I chose this job. Its a pretty simply thing do add I would think, and it does not unbalance the game one bit.
I'm a total novice ranger. I took ranger initially to help with my BE activities, but since my BE activities are about as fun as reading the CH forum, I've spent most of my time doing ranger stuff.
This issue of specificity of resources is really a non-issue. I realize it may go against many people's idea of the foot-loose, independent ranger, but think about it this way:
1. Meat, hides and bones should be trivial for all but the most dangerous planets. SInce you're only making camo kits for those planets at the higher end of the tree, I have to assume that if you got the skills, then you know how to pay the bill sin this department.
2. In a single week, with a modest outlay (less than 50k, easily), you can put a personal harvester on every planet and harvest 6-10k of every flora used in the camo kits. (You'll prolly even have change left over to rent some factory time.) I don't know about the upper level camo kits, but the the camo kits that I have access to at WF II all take like 30 resources of flora.Even assuming only a 6k harvest,you'll haveenough flora to mass produce 200 of EVERY kind of camo kit in the game. Considering they seem to yield 3 charges per kit, that's 600 APPLICATIONS before you have to go through this pain in the ass again. Assuming you're as rabidly self-reliant as many people claim to be, you'll have provided everything else yourself and your kits will end up costing LESS THAN 100 CREDITS each.
Of course as always, ymmv, but you get the picture. The bottom line is, with a week or two of hassle and expense you can outfit yourself for a LONG time (close to 100 ingame hours of /conceal for each planet).
Flame me all you want if you hate this post, I'm a BE, I've taken worse.
/griiiiiinnnnnnnndddddon
BTW, Surveyor + Ranger is a good money maker, you can go ANYWHERE and setup a harvester. Or at least you could before Maskscent broke everytime you take a breath...
The flora requirement is an insult. My character can find obscure fruits and veggies with magic powers, but can't find common wheat or oats? Is this a joke?
The simple solution is to let Rangers use a flora scanner as if their Forage skill were Surveying skill. This has the added benefit of making Forage useful -- which, currently, it isn't.
DFH wrote:
Fellstaff, Rangers were already dependent upon Weaponsmiths to make our weapons, Tailors to make our clothes, Armorsmiths for our armor...etc, etc. We weren't even resource-independent for our own goods, as some require metals or polymers a pure Ranger can't obtain on his own.
Last I checked, rangers did not require weapons, armor or clothes. Maybe something's changed.
The flora requirement is an insult. My character can find obscure fruits and veggies with magic powers, but can't find common wheat or oats? Is this a joke?
There's a world of difference between foraging nuts and berries and farming, harvesting and processing cereals.
The simple solution is to let Rangers use a flora scanner as if their Forage skill were Surveying skill. This has the added benefit of making Forage useful -- which, currently, it isn't.
The medical professions have a much greater variety of specific resources needed to make their wares. They don't sprout from the artisan tree.Ifyour solution were adopted,shouldn'tmedical forage be turned into 'survey for all the resources you need for your meds'?
I think it's pretty obvious that ifresources for every non-artisan craftable were obtainable without survey skills, then the value of survey skills would be decimated, particularly for novice artisans. And that's a bad thing.
With respect, DFH, your solution is precisely the wrong one.
4. Your argument (and myriad others on this subject) seems to be that,since your idea of a ranger is someone who is self-sufficient, you shouldn't have to rely on low-level survey skills to obtain your camo kits. After all, 'you can find obscure fruits and veggies', why not common oats?
For those of you for whom the cost of doing some harvesting is prohibitive or supremely distasteful, why not form a collective with your fellow rangers and distribute the startup costs among you? I have a strong feeling the Antarians, for example,are going to end up doing something like this.
Bottom line, is this new requirement truly worth this level of hysteria?
In the words of the wise Ali G, 'Ich don't think so.'
This specialization is good on many levels. First of all, rangers don't *need* camo, even though they do benefit from it (in theory, heh). There is no reason why Rangers should be totally self sufficient for everything they *might* want to use. Maskscent still works great, and it's free. If it takes a hunk of resources from the target planet to make these things, that opens the market for rangers who hang around a certain planet. It does *not* take long to get the appropriate flora if you are a regular visitor to a particular planet, Just keep your eyes open to buy it in bulk when you get the chance, and make up a bunch of them and put em on the bazaar. If you travel to a planet and find no camo kits for sale, take it upon yourself to be the camo guy.
The only problem is that camo just isn't worth the effort. If you wanted to do some serious exploring, you would need a ton of kits, and 90% of the time maskscent is just fine. I'm all for making camo kits require some effort to create, but there has to be a correspondingpayoff. For one thing, they shouldn't just be made useless because one creature notices you.
Imagine that anyone with novice ranger (6 skill points)
could make a camo kit for dath using tat meat/hide etc so what if it requires 30 wheat or floral.
It's not like we haven't had to buy polymer and metal, errr since the days of scout's. 100 wood no biggy,
SOE wants US as players to utilize the abilites of other players. Fine by me the headache for getting an artisan to get wood/flora plus a 1k tip is nothing. 2 destory missions
CHEAP CHEAP.
Complain about it, nah but whats the point. Everything has a cost. I can't fire a headshot with out losing mind, so what if you have to buy something to make something.
Self sufficent to an extent yes but This is a MMORPG not
Morrowind. DEAL with it
Every wonder why there are soo many Creature Handlers?
if 1/3 of the server is going bounty hunter what do you do with the left over scout xp, 2 choices Ranger or Creature Handler. Area Track as it is, this gonna get a whole new crop of novice rangers just for that skill alone. or should I say Bounty Hunters getting novice ranger for tracking skills.
Glaza-X wrote:
They are Specalized for a reason
Imagine that anyone with novice ranger (6 skill points)
could make a camo kit for dath using tat meat/hide etc so what if it requires 30 wheat or floral.
You obviously missed the pointl Im not saying u can use ANY bone for any kit im saying for a tattioone kit i should be able to use any Hide/bone/food from tattioone and one specialized flora...... n