Ranger Archive

a claymore would be awseome. i really enjoy pve on npc people. i love killin me some night sisters and geonosians. it would be great to be able to conceal up, and set traps all around a group of unsuspecting nightsiters. then boom. i would be my own hero. although i would hate it if we got things other proffs are more justified in getting. then having to listen to them scream nerf all day(bh's). but it would still be awesome.

i was referring to bounty hunters. hunting people is their cup of tea. im not a bounty hunter. ive never been one, and have no desire to be one. people hunting is their thing. imho i feel that if we are given traps that act like our, idealy causing state effects and what not, will make rangers unbalanced. i know you may think im crazy, but think about lobbing an adhesive mesh on a group of say 5. they freeze in place for x amount of sceonds. that would make a ranger a too strong in pvp. especially if you have a ranged prof to back it up. each time the trap wore off you would throw another one. in the mean time your doing specials and moving your postion to do more surprise attacks. it woudl be easy for a ranger to single handedly take out a group of say 5 if you know your traps and tactics.

Something like traps working in PvP should not affect their PvE effects (just look at any combat profession's specials--they are more useful and more versatile than our traps). Camps currently have the same role in PvP as they do in PvE. The tracking line should probably not become anything more than it is for PvP except to have the creature to hit bonus apply to CH pets. PvP stealth is an extension to the current Wayfaring line. It is not trying to replace it in any way. PvP is extremely similar to PvE. There shouldn't be some sort of artificial barrier between the two. I can understand limiting the usefulness of a skill for technical reasons but cutting it out of an entire area of the game (supposedly to become the most important part of the game) is just a sign of laziness. Just look at the phenacine dart:by THs own statements, it is proven to be completely useless. The only way it would be useful given the stated game mechanics is if traps worked on humanoids. Anyone want to venture a guess why it does what it does?

Lythender Nirou
Crazy Bothan

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Shaw, the point that JBMat is tring to make is that we're designed a specific way. We're designed to be a SUPPORT role in PvP. Much like the Squad Leader, our job is secondary. We don't do all the heavy hitting. what we do is important nonetheless.

Do I think we need an expanded role in the GCW and PvP? Yes, of course. Just because you're a hunter doesn't mean you can't change the course of war.

Do I think we should be uber-commando SWAT team SEAL Delta Force super-soldier. no. No way. Out of the question. We're NOT a combat class. If what you want is uberness, this isn't the proffession. It probably never will be. But with a few specific skill, Rangers could have a distinct role in PvP and GCW.

Here's my ideas (compiled of course, from the ideas of countless other brillian Rangers)

- We should be able to trap CH animals. No question. not only that, we should have attacks that are creature-specific. A"KillStrike" designed to cause massive damage, bleeding, dizziness to a creature. This would be availiable only at high levels of course, but would seriously mpact to PvE battles. This would be useable by both Meleers and Ranged. This attack would work against CH pets, too.

- In the GCW, we should be unparralled at approaching bases unbeknownst to the base itself. I.E. we should have better chances at clearing minefields and also at approaching a turret without it aggroing us. (i.e. the turret acts like a creature, our camo shields us) and then being able to disable it from the outside with a new trap that jams the signals. Imagine being able to approach a base with impunity since 5 minutes before a Ranger snuck around the base, disabling the defenses and clearing the mines.

-In PvP, we should have SOME advantage. Even something as mundane as another speed boost while running (as opposed to, or congruent with, the crawl speed) would give us SOME advantage. Camo should also apply a negative to-it modifier. In PvP, it should last only a few combat turns, but it should last for a while (this as opposed to a "first attack" idea) in this sense, a player would know he's being attacked and from which direction, but due to the camo, he would have a hard time making direct shots. This would fade as he sees where the Ranger is firing from. Also, if possible, Rangers should recieve better attack roles (more likely to hit opponent) outside the city, and should also be harder to hit.

-as far as creatures go, I don't think we should be able to attack from them w/ special attacks (unless EVERYONE can. there's nothing about being a hunter that should allow you to do this. However, our Terrain Negotiation skills SHOULD carry over to our pets. if you're riding a horse through the woods in RL, knowing the fastest way up a hill would allow you to make your horse take that route. Someone who had never been in the woods would have NO idea how to get up a hill quickly.

The important thing to note is that we are NOT uber. We are still useless in direct PvP combat. Much like a squad leader, our duty is to stay alive and support. We are the guys who knock out a building's power supply, not the SWAT team who goes in guns drawn. We are the spies in the hills watching enemy movement, not the guys weilding rocket launchers. We are the foreward scouts, the first line of defense, the perephrial combat stars that don't neccesarily make or break the mission. If you get 30 commando's and 30 BH'sall buffed, spiced and armored up, I bet they could take on a base solo. But if you don't have that number, it's nice to know that the turrets will be down for 10 minutes and the minefield is disarmed, just like it's nice knowing that your SL can rally the team and even call for a fast retreat. Not absolutely neccesary if you've got the firepower, but a nice addition that can mean the success or failure of a small team or even just the non-death of one of the squad.

That's how I see Ranger. A hunter first, but with the capability and the tenacity and the intelligence to play a part in a war that's bigger than them. A person used to dealing with animals but who's not afraid to put his knowledge of camoflage and traps to good use in combat situations.

True, as per my ideas, you'll never be uber. You'll never be able to do the /bmoc while overt around other overts of the opposite faction with impunity. But you WILL gain the respect of those who fight beside you. You WILL takes risks that no one else will, and you may turn the tide of a battle by STRATEGY over mindless power.

Blarg...double post.

anyway, let me add this:

Rangers are unique in that they aren't rigidly defined in the game literature and even in the movies/books/games. We all know what BH's are and what they do. But Ranger is less defined, leaving it open for many suggestions for all different ideas. But as a newer member of the boards, it's important that you realize that many of us have been discussing this for MONTHS.

As a whole, the Ranger community wants PvP skills...but NOT if they come at the expense of the PvE skills. In other words, this is the stuff we've been dealing with for a while. Every so often someone comes along and says "dammit, we SuXoRs in PvP." you're not the first, nor will you be the last. and that's okay. There's no problem with rocking the boat a little bit. But please don't keep pushing the same stuff over and over. if you see more Rangers saying "don't mess with my PvE skilz, then try to work on ideas that are congruent with the "Outdoorsman proposal"

I like the drive that you've brought to the boards. You've made large #'s of posts very quickly and all of them are, if nothing else, passionate. But again, the thing is, this board has seen plenty of passionate people come and go. Consider what you want from your character: do you want to be good at PvP or would you rather go out and hunt animals? Do you want to be able to be considered a tough guy, or do you want to be the guy who quietly changes the outcome of a battle? These are the questions you have to ask yourself. Don't ask the proffession to change because you want something (at least not right away). If PvP is REALLY that important to you, you should do a PvP class. If being suppot in PvP is agreeable with you, then Ranger may be the proffession for you.

What I'm saying is this: it's great to see you passionate about this proffession, but make sure that this is the proffession for you. We are Outdoorsman (and Outdoorswomen), not fighting machines. We are defined by our connection to PvE, so you CAN'T change that. Consider your proffessions wisely. This may or may not be the right proffession for the way you want to play. If it is, great, I welcome suggestions. But if it isn't, you need to think about changing your character, rather than the whole proffession to match what YOU want for your character.

I just wrote a long postand it got lost in translation. Here were my main points

1) I never wanted us to be uber assasins

2) Phenix proves my point when he says

"The important thing to note is that we are NOT uber. We are still useless in direct PvP combat. Much like a squad leader, our duty is to stay alive and support. We are the guys who knock out a building's power supply, not the SWAT team who goes in guns drawn. We are the spies in the hills watching enemy movement, not the guys weilding rocket launchers. We are the foreward scouts, the first line of defense, the perephrial combat stars that don't neccesarily make or break the mission. If you get 30 commando's and 30 BH'sall buffed, spiced and armored up, I bet they could take on a base solo. But if you don't have that number, it's nice to know that the turrets will be down for 10 minutes and the minefield is disarmed, just like it's nice knowing that your SL can rally the team and even call for a fast retreat. Not absolutely neccesary if you've got the firepower, but a nice addition that can mean the success or failure of a small team or even just the non-death of one of the squad."

That is what I am wanting for us, but right now we cannot do those things. I don't want to be a commando, I want to be the guerilla who's enviroment is his domain, and who's knowledge of the land allows him to set booby-traps and create mobile encampments. A ranger who blends in and warns he's group that the enemy is coming.

3) Our reasons of we will lose PvE skills, we don't like PvP, or the devs don't want us to have them. I disagree with.

We can have both it fits in our image, the devs work for us, and every other combat involved profession has the choice between PvP and PvE.

4) I mentioned something about phenix 's blatant disrespect he showed me, and how I didn't care, and how I am willing to work with the community of rangers to make us better, but that I don't want PvP to be lost to us.

I'm sure I missed some stuff but I don't like writing post twice.

WKD is the Clan fo' ME!!!

We have a role in PvP, recon.

And no, not anyone can go in covert and recon. I dunno bout you, but if there is an attack coming, any covert enemy faction member gets to meet Mr. Scanner and Mr. Cityban. Meanwhile, useless Ranger boy stands off and does a better recon. Instead of having to close to radar range and have to count dots, I can be out 400m, do areatrack and take a snapshot, by name, of who is out there. Including NPCs and pets. Names are important, if you know who you are fighting, you know the professions. You really want to take on 23 combat medics/TKMs??

Most of the time, the Imps have no clue I was in the grid square. No warning is good.

Same deal on defense. If we know which direction they are coming from, we can drop a few nasties in the way. That tactic is called channelizing - making the attacking forces go a certain way - usually into an area they don't want to be in. Regardless, the turrets we throw in the way cause them to deploy early, inflictcasualties at no expense to us, and generally make the morons mad. Hey, I pioneered the - find the camp, get aggro'd, drag the nasties thru the enemy camp - trick. Yes, it is just a diversion, but the buff timers are running, any delays are good. Once we somehow managed to kill their doc - oops. That attack was quickly aborted.

Ranger has a major role in PvP, if people would realize it. And the day we can trap pets, it is game over for the CHs. They may as well pack up and go home.

I think the best part of Ranger is we can master a combat profession and still be Rangers. And have enough SP left to dabble in medic to heal ourselves.

We have our niche in PvP, just learn how to fill it.

JB

Frederick Skinner
Antarian Ranger, Ranger(0030), Master Rifleman, CH(4214)
Ranger is not a profession. It's a lifestyle.

wanted to jump in on this discussion, but couldn't decide where... since this thread is longer, i'll go here...

i'm in agreement with nemo0, the salient distinction between PvP and PvE in this game is wrong... it is forced by a system that shouldn't be in place, and odds are a lot of that will be fixed in the combat balance (here's to hope)...

it is silly to think that we cannot ask for power in PvP at the same time as asking for more PvE ability... for the most part they actually come together; any profession that is good at one is also good at the other... the best tanks in PvE (fencers/TKA), turns out are also the best tanks in PvP... the only real exception to this is combat medics, who's role in PvP is much greater (only due to the incredibly high HAMs of creatures/NPCs)...

i think all the folks arguing against more use in PvP are really saying they prefer for rangers to be "creature hunters"... but creatures only make up half of PvE, if the question is, "should rangers be able to hunt all life in the wilderness (people and creatures), or should they be creature hunters solely?" then we need to move that to a different thread...

then there are folks arguing that we shouldn't be a combat profession... and they are right, we shouldn't... we can still master almost any combat profession to back up our ranger skills... but i don't think shaw is asking for us to become a combat profession, just that we should have some role in PvP..

currently we do have a PvP support role... JB does a good job in highlighting those for us... the trouble is,most of those things are not exclusive to the ranger - the ranger just does them 'easier'... not only that, but people have to ask "what is our role?"...it should be apparent somewhere in the design of ranger... it shouldn't necessarily be something in line with PvP dueling, but we should have somemore obvioususe in the GCW form of PvP...

do i want more PvP capability (not necessarily combat capability)?... yes... i don't see rangers as creature killers only, i think rangers are kings of the wilderness and anything in it - including people...

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I agree with this! If the Dev's are going to make Ranger PvE only, then IMHO they have3 choices due the HUGE investment in skill point needed for Ranger.

1) Give usa seriousPvP role. (Or stop asking for what we want in the GCW)

2) Give us something similar to TKM (novice medic, cure disease/poison, novice entertainer)

3) Cut our skill points needed for Ranger down considerably.

I think Shaw is on the right track, while I may not agree with all his ideas, I think we HAVE to come up with ideas, and continue to work thru them!!!

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- In rememberance of our friend, Luckky Johnson (Toni Sinclair)
"Every day I feel like I am opening a present when
I double-click the SWG icon"-Vorpaks
Thanks bud...now, about the Garment habit of yours. You need an intervention! - Calculus_Entropy /flex - n'Jessi
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I hate too focus on you Phenix, but you don't seem to get it. I agree with you, IDON'T want to be a combat class that center around PvP either. I don't know if you read my post but I never say I wanted to be uber in PvP. I want the ability to set traps in PvP. Thats all that you and I really differ on, from what I read. I don't see what the devs see I guess, my ideas for traps are not what a BH would use.I don't knowwhat it is Phenix, maybe you feel threatened, but are views really aren't that different. Think about it and maybe we can do something costructive.

WKD is the Clan fo' ME!!!