Ranger Archive

Hmm I've been skiming some of the stuff I missed before this thread. From a tactical view point I think we are SOL.

We had long wanted group harvest reductions removed - wish granted.

We where informed that there would be a 20% bonus for grouping - Some didn't want this, some wanted a bigger bonus for rangers.

There was pissing and moaning (constructive pissing and moaning) - The bigger bonus camp got its wish.

We find out that while we provide the bonus, we don't get it. Many did say "WTH?!?! That's not what I wished for!"

Sigh

If they want to encourage grouping, two words - Nerf Buffs. There's your CURB right there, not much to it really.

Between this and ASs telling their customers that the reason they can't drop Comp prices is becuase they have to pay 50 cpu for the 240 units of wooly hide that go in a whole 250k+ suit of comp... Ugh I think I need to take a break, go be a DE for a bit and come back when the bitterness has worn off.

Message Edited by agent156 on 02-19-2005 07:06 AM

Just one question. Does anybody know if a Squad Leader gets his/her own group boni for beeing grouped?
I mean there is no real difference between a group TN bonus or a group harvest bonus. A SL pays with his/her skill points to get this bonus for his/her group. It would be the same way for a Ranger. The Ranger pays with his/her skill points to get this bonus for the group. The only differenc would be that a grouped Ranger increases a bonus which is alredy there, and a SL provides a bonus for the group.
So if a SL gets his own group boni himself/herself, it would be totaly unfair that a Ranger doesn not get his own bonus.
It would just be fair and logic to treat everybody in the same way and I would be realy happy if somebody could make this clear.

Personaly I like it that the penalty is gone, but I dont know what to think about the bonus. As some others say it will just replace one problem with another, but I could live with the bonus if it is for the whole group.

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Cryos_Merovingian wrote:

...

I see DaveG's point about solo vs. group play, but I don't think it's bad to encourage grouping... despite the choice of play style.

...

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Message Edited by DaveG on 02-19-2005 06:18 PM

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Tiggs wrote:

Folks,

How about you jump on Test Center or TC-Gorath and do some tests. Let me know if Rangers/MRs are getting less then the group and I will bring those results to the team. Sound good? =)

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ok Tiggs here's what i got testing on TC-Gorath

same race and no tapes or droids for harvesting

mstr rnger + mstr ranger both got 40% bonus and same harvest amount

mstr rnger + 0040 ranger mstr ranger harvested 165 0040 ranger harvested 170

mstr rnger + mstr scout mstr ranger harvested 152 mstr scout harvested 135

mstr scout + 0040 scout mstr scout harvested 130 0040 scout harvested 126

all the harvests were off of same creater we hunted piket plainswalkers.

side note milk harvest while raised were not substantial to make a big impact only was able to milk 178 units as mstr ranger

the highlighted line however is the only point we noticed that needs to be addressed.

Well, y'know, if I didn't know better I'd think that somebody is trying to stop us from actually testing.

Both TC's are down again (prolly for a quick PU) but net result is, we get told to go test, before midnight last night my time. 20 hours later I've managed to kill some cupa on TC-Prime but couldn't get a group there because the few folk in TCPA were all off doing FS stuff to get up to date (BTW, thats not a crot of the TC regs, I know they are a phase behind and that they're right to be doing this).

Got on Gorath just in time to see one ranger log off, ran about like an eejit trying to get ANYONE to group up, ffs, I'd even have been happy to go out and clear yard trash for the numbers, but no joy.

If we can't get coordinated (given the forum rangers seem to be the only ones that KNOW about this change and are the ones in a position to get on and test cooperatively) and get given the tools, this is not going to happen.

And yes, I am NOT a happy durni.

I'm back off to work, but I'm hoping to get some more testing done (figure me at work from noon-midnight every thurs-sunday). I've got a noncombat 0030 ranger on TC, and could probably stand to brave the nonsense of TC-factionale if required. here's what I understand so far:

a master ranger, a ranger tracker, and a combat goon with scout skills go a-hunting. let's call them Alphonse, Bob, and Cletus respectively.

at their first kill, Alphonse harvests as a master ranger (base +100) plus +30%, since he is grouped with a ranger. Bob (who happens to be a mCH/mrifle/ranger 0030) harvests (base +80) plus 40%, since he is grouped with a MASTER ranger. Cletus, who only has scout 0040, harvests (base +40) plus 40%, since he, too, is grouped with a MASTER ranger.

Alphonse: +130
Bob: +112
Cletus: +56

at their second kill, Bob stays at ideal range (60m or so). the creature warps as the team tries to kill it. now the problem... if the harvest bonus is applied at the KILL, rather than the HARVEST, then we see very different numbers. Alphonse now harvests at +20% (base group bonus). Bob harvests at +20%... or +40%... or? we're not sure. Cletus harvests at +40%, grouped with a MASTER ranger.

Alphonse: +120
Bob: +??? (+96? +112?)
Cletus: +56

keep in mind that these characters have VERY different investments in scouting/ranger skills.

Alphonse: 140
Bob: 95
Cletus: 29

at BASE rates of harvest (and solo), that's a harvest-per-skill-point of:

Alphonse: 0.714
Bob: 0.842
Cletus: 1.38


what we KNOW:

players grouped with a MASTER ranger get a +40% bonus. the MASTER ranger does not get this bonus unless they are grouped with ANOTHER MASTER ranger.

the bonus is figured for players within 64m (at kill? at harvest?).

what we NEED TO KNOW:

the bonus is figured: at kill? at harvest?

is the bonus enough to encourage grouping with rangers, and with master rangers?

is the bonus TOO much, making rangers, and master rangers, superfluous?


I'm up for more testing.

I personally believe that the problem could be solved quickly and profitably with changes to the +creature harvesting mods (double, or triple, ALL ranger-based +creature harvest mods).

master scout: +50. novice ranger: +60/+65. tracking: 1, +70/+80; 2, +90/+110; 3, +110/+140; 4, +130/+170. master ranger: +150/+200.

that changes the harvest-per-skill-point numbers considerably (numbers for current, x2, and x3 mods shown):

Alphonse: 0.714, 1.07, 1.42
Bob: 0.842, 1.16, 1.47
Cletus: 1.38, 1.38, 1.38

looking at THESE numbers, I'd say the harvest BONUS is of less concern than the BASE harvest/skill point reward/investment scheme. a radical change to be sure, but I find it hard to support the notion that a master ranger is ONLY twice as good as a master scout.

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Rancorrider4 wrote:

Spent 2 hours on T.C. Gorath and no one wanted to hunt and harvest. Everyone is factioning. This included 3 other Master Rangers.

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check RIN.. that's where we're communicating (when it comes back up)

Kimi I posted my raw numbers. I will be trying to remember math from 10 years ago and figure out the percentages. If you would check my data against yours, so I can b sure I wrote all the #s down right.