Ranger Archive
Thread: Revised harvesting changes..
Tiggs wrote:
Folks,
How about you jump on Test Center or TC-Gorath and do some tests. Let me know if Rangers/MRs are getting less then the group and I will bring those results to the team. Sound good? =)
As I've said, we don't need to run tests to know that soloist players are going to be penalised for playing as they choose to. Can you see that this is an unfair system?
I've already said, but will again, as things are now (in live) group players are penalised, if the TC changes go live, then solo players are penalised instead (by virtue of not having the bonus). This is simply exchanging on problem for another, and it doesn't solve anything. This whole issue is that simple!
Please just draw the line at removing group penalties, then everyone is free to hunt how they choose to, not how they're told to!
Zero Bonus, Zero Penalty!
Message Edited by DaveG on 02-19-2005 11:43 AM
I missed the hole 4 threads thing that got this one test center, I'll search around. But could someone point me to them any way? I just want to understand the background. This thread was the first I've heard of any of this.
DaveG wrote:
As I've said, we don't need to run tests to know that soloist players are going to be penalised for playing as they choose to. Can you see that this is an unfair system?
I've already said, but will again, as things are now (in live) group players are penalised, if the TC changes go live, then solo players are penalised instead (by virtue of not having the bonus). This is simply exchanging on problem for another, and it doesn't solve anything. This whole issue is that simple!
Please just draw the line at removing group penalties, then everyone is free to hunt how they choose to, not how they're told to!
Zero Bonus, Zero Penalty!
Message Edited by DaveG on 02-19-2005 11:43 AM
I think that would be the best way. When I first read about it, I just saw the extra 40% and I liked it. But now, after the system has been explained further (and I thought about it some time), I don't like it. I hunt solo a lot, because I like the challenge of survival on Endor etc. And because there are only a few players who are able to hunt in a group, a lot of them don't have a clue how to behave. I die more when grouped...
I can see DaveGs point here, I thin he's right. If there is no penalty and no bonus, every playstile is supported.
I've not been able to get on TC-G since Tigg's threw the gauntlet down last night.
Might as well try TC-Prime, earn some rent money.
Owen-Lars wrote:Dave you make it sound like i havnt even mentioned this to the devs. I post what the community wants and this idea of no penalty, no bonus was presented long before this thread even started.The devs want a bonus, we have to work around that. If its that much of a mess that there is no option to remove it then they will, but dont expect it because they are adement on a bonus.Im not ignoring a viewpoint, im not just pushing for a bonus, its simply old news to me so im presenting ideas around that.
OK Owen. They want a bonus, fine. Let's give them the 20% for just being grouped and remove the ranger/master ranger bonus idea. Then, let them increase the yield for +creature harvest by at least the same 20% across the board.
Scout and Rangers maintain the advantage they deserve due to the SP investment and everyone is still encouraged to group for the 20& bonus. Case closed.
Oku Kee'lus
agent156 wrote:
Ok while I'm a little worried about the impact this will have, I have to point out this isn't a MMOG its a MMORPG. Can't forget about the RP part, lol. And from a RP perspective this system totaly makes sence. Well sort of, only so much meat on one criter how 10 people can harvest from criter has always kinda buged me, but what ever. It works like this guys -
(Oh and please note, I'm not trying to sell the system, just explain its justification from a RP point of view, there by demostrating that the Devs are neither jerks nor idiots.)
Your a Novice Scout to Master Ranger and you are grouped with anyone. You're able to have them do some of the grunt work of harvesting, removing the entrails, stringing them up to drain the blood Ect. This gives you extra time/energy to carefully butcher the meat, leading to a higher yeild of useable meat.
Your Master Ranger and you are grouped with a Novice Ranger. You able to have them do even more of the grunt work. Not only that you don't need to watch over them nor do you really need to tell them what you do. This leaves you even more time energy to your work leading to even higher yeilds.
. I prefer to hunt alone because it is very difficult to fing a group of players who don't rush through the creatures like a hot knife through butter.
I'm begining to feel like a readhead step child twice over, I don't like groups, and I'm a ranger. God couldn't they have handed out some of this "socialization" on some class that dosen't lose its edge in a group? There have been a few threads of late about not hunting in groups or with people you don't know, not one mentioned the -%40 harvesting hit. The reason most of us don't hunt in groups is that we don't want our hunting style jacked up.
But, I have been out in the field and seen other Rangers and just said hi and kept moving even when we where both obviously having a hard time. That will change. But it wouldn't have required a bonus.
I think more people would be better served if they focused on removing reasons not to group, instead of trying to give us reasons to group.
agent156 wrote:
Sigh I fear your right, only time will tell.
I'm begining to feel like a readhead step child twice over, I don't like groups, and I'm a ranger. God couldn't they have handed out some of this "socialization" on some class that dosen't lose its edge in a group? There have been a few threads of late about not hunting in groups or with people you don't know, not one mentioned the -%40 harvesting hit. The reason most of us don't hunt in groups is that we don't want our hunting style jacked up.
But, I have been out in the field and seen other Rangers and just said hi and kept moving even when we where both obviously having a hard time. That will change. But it wouldn't have required a bonus.
I think more people would be better served if they focused on removing reasons not to group, instead of trying to give us reasons to group.
The one thing we're almost all agreed on is that the Dev's decision to remove the penalty for grouping is the right decision. At the moment that's going away. So, no penalty for grouping.
Just it seems the Dev's have got a bee in their bonnet about ADDING an additional bonus for grouping and it's the implementation of that that's creating all the angst.
You can see it from their PoV "Are these folk mad, we're giving them a whopping bonus for being a team player and they're arguing about it". Course, from our PoV its "Oh come on, am going to have to group up to get this bonus, if I don't group up then somebody with less skills invested can out harvest me. OH!! AND I need to group with another MR???"
It's messy, it's inelegant, it's unbalancing. But that's why it's in test and we're trying to bash it into shape. (When we've got the tools).
Owen-Lars wrote:
Dave you make it sound like i havnt even mentioned this to the devs. I post what the community wants and this idea of no penalty, no bonus was presented long before this thread even started.
The devs want a bonus, we have to work around that. If its that much of a mess that there is no option to remove it then they will, but dont expect it because they are adement on a bonus.
Im not ignoring a viewpoint, im not just pushing fora bonus, its simply old news to me so im presenting ideas around that.
Hi Owen,
First of all, what I'm saying isn't to undermine or imply anything about what you have/haven't done. All I, as a concerned player, know is what the devs are telling us, and they aren't telling us anything that's fair or sensible. FWIW, I don't envy your position/job either.
Now, down to this devs wanting a bonus. It is clear, from this thread alone that we don't want bonuses. A bonus is wrong in principal. There isn't anyway half-way on this, they either do it or they don't. They may want it, but we do not want it. We play the game, we pay the bills, they work for us, not the other way around.
For whatever reason, they want this bonus, so we can't give an inch on this one or they'll just shove it in. So we have to fight, and the reason I PM'd you Owen, is that by 'going through channels' you're the one we have to fight with/through.
The bonus is wrong on principal, and all the alternatives of having a bonus are proving to be untennable, as shown in the discussions here. The devs are wrong, and they need showing so. We are the players, hence our agenda is clear, thus far I cannot say the same for the powers that be of SOE.
Feel free to quote me to the devs on this, and also ask them to give an explanation as to why they think the bonus is okay.
Message Edited by DaveG on 02-19-2005 02:45 PM
Message Edited by DaveG on 02-19-2005 02:38 PM