Ranger Archive
Thread: Revised harvesting changes..
Zaene1
Sat Feb 19, 2005 1:36 am
#170
Melvic wrote:
Because the ranger will get a 20% or 30% bonus. Who cares if someone else gets 40%, they are still harvesting less than you, and if you feel that strongly about it than charge for your services.
Zaene1 wrote:
Excatly my opinion too. Otherwise why would a ranger want to hunt in a group? And if rangers choose to hunt solo then there goes the bonus for everyone.
Obviously you're not a ranger.
Vorpaks
Sat Feb 19, 2005 1:37 am
#171
Melvic wrote:
First off, the MR should not end up harvesting less than anyone with this system. A MR has +50 harvesting on a MS, and +10 on a xx4x ranger. The MS does not even come close, though while the ranger does, keep in mind the MR will now get the 30% bonus and this will keep the MR on top for harvesting.
We pay skill points for that additional harvest, it should not be taken into account when considering a bonus.
Even MRs not benefiting from their own presence is not without precedent, just ask entertainers.
Just because ents cannot currently buff themselves does not make it right.
I see the point people are making, but a MR is not going to benefit from a non-MR the same that a non-MR would benefit from a MR, but guess what, the MR still benefits more in the end anyway in most cases.
I don't understand... what is most cases? If another MRanger is in the group the MRangers will benefit 40% - the same as everyone else in a group. Never will they benefit more, which is fine. We simply want them to always benefit the same as everyone else in the group. If you are talking about our harvesting mod - this is a skill we purchase with skillpoints, it is not a bonus and should not be considered as part of a bonus.
I really think this is an issue that is not huge and would you not rather the devs move on and add more improvements instead of spending more time reworking the system over something like this?
I think we would all rather they get it right the first time.
Bughunt
Sat Feb 19, 2005 1:37 am
#172
Love-it. Instant Value placed on Ranger andMaster Ranger, might have to add it back.I would suggest the following, unless there is a lag/coding issue.
Penalty remove when grouped.
20% should apply if you have a ranger grouped with you.
30% group bonus if ranger has Tracking IV and is leader.
40% group bonusif Master Ranger and he is leader.
64m rule would apply
This would further add value to ranger as a class.
Nice Add
Sinkuu
Sat Feb 19, 2005 1:50 am
#173
I like what bughunt just said.
but to what Tiggs said... that's wrong.
"if I'm the only Master Ranger in the group, everyone else gets a 40% boost. I don't. I only get 20%."
what's the point of me grouping to give OTHER people help? I'd rather just hunt solo, if by grouping, I'm letting other people harvest MORE than me. if I have a Ranger with tracking 4 in my group, they're getting 40% boost, which is NOT covered by the extra I get from being a Master Ranger, even with the 20% boost I get for being grouped.
am I right in this?
Arg0nus
Sat Feb 19, 2005 1:51 am
#174
Not sure why this is so hard to understand....
Bob the Master Rifleman/4,0,4,0 Scout groups and hunts with Joe the Master Pikeman/Ranger.
Being that Joe is a Master Ranger, and gets a HIGHER HARVESTING BONUS for beingaMaster ranger....(Creature Harvesting at +105)
Bob gets only a +45...Joe can harvest WAY more without the bonus to grouping.
So...A Master Ranger STILL will harvest more then anyone else...even counting the grouping bonus.
Cryos_Merovingian
Sat Feb 19, 2005 1:52 am
#175
Vorpaks wrote:
I think we would all rather they get it right the first time.
I totally agree... and it's not like we're that far off. This last sticking point we're on here is a rational and easy to make change that would really push these change to perfection.
If having a ranger in a group generates an additional group harvesting bonus, then this should apply to the entire group!
Tiggs
Sat Feb 19, 2005 1:55 am
#176
Melvic wrote:
First off, the MR should not end up harvesting less than anyone with this system. A MR has +50 harvesting on a MS, and +10 on a xx4x ranger. The MS does not even come close, though while the ranger does, keep in mind the MR will now get the 30% bonus and this will keep the MR on top for harvesting.
Even MRs not benefiting from their own presence is not without precedent, just ask entertainers. I see the point people are making, but a MR is not going to benefit from a non-MR the same that a non-MR would benefit from a MR, but guess what, the MR still benefits more in the end anyway in most cases.
Thank you Melvic for summing up what I was having trouble with getting across.
Crimsonsplat
Sat Feb 19, 2005 1:56 am
#177
Maybe I'm not seeing something, but it seems to make sense that the other members would benefit from this special bonus, while the ranger wouldn't. This is simulating the MR showing the other members "how it's done", providing tips, advice, etc. on harvesting. Obviously, he can't give such a bonus to himself!
However, different people may develop different techniques, haveother experiences,or learn little "tricks" that can be shared. Thus an MR can benefit to a lesser extent from the 0040 character, and by "comparing notes" with another Master (i.e.: grouped with another MR), receive the full 40% bonus.
Where the simulation breaks down is that the bonus from such instruction should be permanent, but I don't think SOE's gonna let us have that one in the interest of balance. 
Goldear
Sat Feb 19, 2005 1:58 am
#178
Well, this change will give all us long time MR's culture shock!! We will be in groups with others..yikes!
" :hides title "
All in all can't complain about the changes in harvest, the way it was before was sillyness.
But I still have a problem with harvest amounts vs a Master Scout, over and above any changes made.
We are a profession, that uses twice as many skill points to become Master Ranger compared to Master Scout.
I have seen some decent stats that show Master Scout harvesting about 70% of what a Master Ranger gets on your average kill. I do believe and someone will have a hard time convincing me otherwise that we should be harvesting at least 2,3,4 times as much as a Master Scout. I say this looking at the template a Master Scout can spend skill points on, and effectively kill more than a Master Ranger in the same time period. Take the new bonus's into account and I'm sure it's dramatic. I also look at the dramatic differences in an Master Artisan as compared to Master Armorsmith, or Master Weasponsmith in this context. The differences between Master Scout and Master Ranger, should be just as dramatic.
" :hides title "
All in all can't complain about the changes in harvest, the way it was before was sillyness.
But I still have a problem with harvest amounts vs a Master Scout, over and above any changes made.
We are a profession, that uses twice as many skill points to become Master Ranger compared to Master Scout.
I have seen some decent stats that show Master Scout harvesting about 70% of what a Master Ranger gets on your average kill. I do believe and someone will have a hard time convincing me otherwise that we should be harvesting at least 2,3,4 times as much as a Master Scout. I say this looking at the template a Master Scout can spend skill points on, and effectively kill more than a Master Ranger in the same time period. Take the new bonus's into account and I'm sure it's dramatic. I also look at the dramatic differences in an Master Artisan as compared to Master Armorsmith, or Master Weasponsmith in this context. The differences between Master Scout and Master Ranger, should be just as dramatic.
SpaceCrazy
Sat Feb 19, 2005 1:58 am
#179
Atherin wrote:You are fogetting that the MR already gets a bonus to his harvest just for being a MR. He gets 20% on top of that for being in a group. And the group members get 40% on top of whaterver profession bonus they also have.We will have to test the numbers but it looks at first blush to work out fairly equitably.
We'll definitely need to get some numbers on this through testing, but if it works out that anyone can out-harvest a Master Ranger when grouped, then it will need modification. No one should ever be able to out-harvest a Master. Otherwise, the incentive is there for people to want the master, but little incentive for the ranger to want to group up.
JangoFett100
Sat Feb 19, 2005 1:59 am
#180
Tiggs wrote:
Melvic wrote:
First off, the MR should not end up harvesting less than anyone with this system. A MR has +50 harvesting on a MS, and +10 on a xx4x ranger. The MS does not even come close, though while the ranger does, keep in mind the MR will now get the 30% bonus and this will keep the MR on top for harvesting.
Even MRs not benefiting from their own presence is not without precedent, just ask entertainers. I see the point people are making, but a MR is not going to benefit from a non-MR the same that a non-MR would benefit from a MR, but guess what, the MR still benefits more in the end anyway in most cases.
Thank you Melvic for summing up what I was having trouble with getting across.
But you are defeating the purpose of creating a need for rangers to join a group. I can only speak for myself, but I would not be inspired to group under the system you are proposing. When I harvest it's to gather as much as I can in the limited time I have. The bonus does not make up for the extra time incured by dealing with a group.
Of course if I could find another MR to hunt with that might be different.
agent156
Sat Feb 19, 2005 2:58 am
#181
Wow this thread went down hill fast, lol. Oh well. I kinda don't like this either. I don't mind being encuraged to group, but some this stuff sounds more like making outcast of those of us that maybe have good reasons that we don't want to group with people, like say constant sexual harasment? I add at least one person to my ignore list a day and I only group with 2 people that I know very well. Except for the ocasional Squill Hunt that I usaly end up leaving early anyway. And I'm hard nosed, potty mothed dyk3 (I'll call my self one if I want to, you silly forum software, lol), I can't imagne what it would be like for a more sensitive girl to deal with. Maybe its my fault for making my toon so pretty... ugh I don't even what to go there. Back to the subject at hand...
Ok while I'm a little worried about the impact this will have, I have to point out this isn't a MMOG its a MMORPG. Can't forget about the RP part, lol. And from a RP perspective this system totaly makes sence. Well sort of, only so much meat on one criter how 10 people can harvest from criter has always kinda buged me, but what ever. It works like this guys -
(Oh and please note, I'm not trying to sell the system, just explain its justification from a RP point of view, there by demostrating that the Devs are neither jerks nor idiots.)
Your a Novice Scout to Master Ranger and you are grouped with anyone. You're able to have them do some of the grunt work of harvesting, removing the entrails, stringing them up to drain the blood Ect. This gives you extra time/energy to carefully butcher the meat, leading to a higher yeild of useable meat.
Your Master Ranger and you are grouped with a Novice Ranger. You able to have them do even more of the grunt work. Not only that you don't need to watch over them nor do you really need to tell them what you do. This leaves you even more time energy to your work leading to even higher yeilds.
Master Ranger and Master Ranger.. ok you get idea by now.
You can reverse the roles and it all works out. The problem is not that the proposed system dosen't make sence. It in fact makes perfect sence from an RP perspective. Is it a good idea? Well I'm a bit nervious about it. Its already hardly worth my time to hunt for cash. It wouldn't take to many 0/0/4/0 scouts and some TKs as a squad to hunt down the price, to that of inorganics. And ya ya ya I know its not about the cash, but they don't call it a Profession for nothing I like my 200 cpu Avian meat, thank you very much.
[isert stock pissing and moaning about skillpoints text]
But for now I say - Tone it down, chill out, let TC do its thing. We have our Cors, we have Tiggs. I think we'll be ok.
And just as I was about to rap this up I get a phone call from my old DM, told him about stat migrations and he was flabergasted. I didn't even dare mention buffs. And now that I think about it I've never seen +Critical Falure+ float over my head and then I see my toon shoot her self in the foot... maybe the real problem is we have it too easy... CURB take me away!
/hug Tiggs
Ok while I'm a little worried about the impact this will have, I have to point out this isn't a MMOG its a MMORPG. Can't forget about the RP part, lol. And from a RP perspective this system totaly makes sence. Well sort of, only so much meat on one criter how 10 people can harvest from criter has always kinda buged me, but what ever. It works like this guys -
(Oh and please note, I'm not trying to sell the system, just explain its justification from a RP point of view, there by demostrating that the Devs are neither jerks nor idiots.)
Your a Novice Scout to Master Ranger and you are grouped with anyone. You're able to have them do some of the grunt work of harvesting, removing the entrails, stringing them up to drain the blood Ect. This gives you extra time/energy to carefully butcher the meat, leading to a higher yeild of useable meat.
Your Master Ranger and you are grouped with a Novice Ranger. You able to have them do even more of the grunt work. Not only that you don't need to watch over them nor do you really need to tell them what you do. This leaves you even more time energy to your work leading to even higher yeilds.
Master Ranger and Master Ranger.. ok you get idea by now.
You can reverse the roles and it all works out. The problem is not that the proposed system dosen't make sence. It in fact makes perfect sence from an RP perspective. Is it a good idea? Well I'm a bit nervious about it. Its already hardly worth my time to hunt for cash. It wouldn't take to many 0/0/4/0 scouts and some TKs as a squad to hunt down the price, to that of inorganics. And ya ya ya I know its not about the cash, but they don't call it a Profession for nothing
I like my 200 cpu Avian meat, thank you very much. [isert stock pissing and moaning about skillpoints text]
But for now I say - Tone it down, chill out, let TC do its thing. We have our Cors, we have Tiggs. I think we'll be ok.
And just as I was about to rap this up I get a phone call from my old DM, told him about stat migrations and he was flabergasted. I didn't even dare mention buffs. And now that I think about it I've never seen +Critical Falure+ float over my head and then I see my toon shoot her self in the foot... maybe the real problem is we have it too easy... CURB take me away!
/hug Tiggs