Ranger Archive
Thread: Revised harvesting changes..
Vorpaks
Fri Feb 18, 2005 2:28 pm
#118
Yes sir.
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
Vorpaks wrote:
Tiggs wrote:
Folks,How about you jump on Test Center or TC-Gorath and do some tests. Let me know if Rangers/MRs are getting less then the group and I will bring those results to the team. Sound good? =)
If I am grouped with my Scout buddies and they are getting a group benefit of 40% and I am only getting a group benefit of 20% I am getting less of a benefit then they are.
She wants the raw numbers though...ie. in a group, what does the Master Ranger get and what does a Novice Scout get. if the novice Scout gets more (actual resources) then there is a problem, if the master Ranger gets more, there is still a problem (philosophically) but it is working as intended.
As a Master Ranger, you goal is to make everyone else fat and happy under this new system.
"working as intended"
That word you keep using. I do not think it means what you think it means.
NickHeel
Fri Feb 18, 2005 2:28 pm
#119
/drops in for one second
Smuggler note: Tiggs please stop by the Smuggler forum and explain the Feign Death change as well. This is vital to our profession if it's a nerf without a compensation skill/modifier in PvP oran explaination (spice nerf and spices being left behind with Chef Revamp and Doctor buffs)
Sorry, Rangers! I like you guys 
Yall have put up with a lot just like Smugglers...much respect for you all I apologize for the interuption.
Yall have put up with a lot just like Smugglers...much respect for you all I apologize for the interuption./drops back out to get Chinese food
DesktopSaki
Fri Feb 18, 2005 2:29 pm
#120
Why do I suddenly feel like a harvesting droid (with a sassy chip) for other players, only Ipay monthly fees? 
frightwig
Fri Feb 18, 2005 2:31 pm
#121
DaQuilla wrote:A MR has +10 on a xx4x Ranger ... so that's 105 ... so 30% on that would mean 136 > 133
a MR has +10 to harvesting ability. An 0040 ranger has 90. That's 100 harvesting ability for a master ranger.
There's a lot of assumed numbers coming out in this thread from non rangers as to the ability of a Master Ranger's harvesting levels. Please keep in mind that the harvest skill mod is not a percentage of what one can harvest. (50 for master scout, and 100 for master ranger, yet a MR only harvests 40% more than a master scout).
DeQuosaek
Fri Feb 18, 2005 2:33 pm
#122
And by the same regard why can't a Master Entertainer buff themselves?
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
Tiggs wrote:
Folks,
How about you jump on Test Center or TC-Gorath and do some tests. Let me know if Rangers/MRs are getting less then the group and I will bring those results to the team. Sound good? =)
I guess I shouldn't have gone to lunch! Yes, let's test this thoroughly!
If a Doctor can buff himself and his groups for equal amounts, why can't a Master Rangerget the same benefit of grouping that an non-Master Ranger gets?
Calculus_Entropy
Fri Feb 18, 2005 2:35 pm
#123
DeQuosaek wrote:
And by the same regard why can't a Master Entertainer buff themselves?
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
Tiggs wrote:
Folks,
How about you jump on Test Center or TC-Gorath and do some tests. Let me know if Rangers/MRs are getting less then the group and I will bring those results to the team. Sound good? =)
I guess I shouldn't have gone to lunch! Yes, let's test this thoroughly!
If a Doctor can buff himself and his groups for equal amounts, why can't a Master Rangerget the same benefit of grouping that an non-Master Ranger gets?
I agree andI support Ents buffing themselves...
Goldear
Fri Feb 18, 2005 2:36 pm
#124
Melvic wrote:
Goldear wrote:
I do believe and someone will have a hard time convincing me otherwise that we should be harvesting at least 2,3,4 times as much as a Master Scout. I say this looking at the template a Master Scout can spend skill points on, and effectively kill more than a Master Ranger in the same time period.
The ability to kill more is certainly an issue, but that is because the rest of the skill points spent do not seem to add much benefit to the MR (camping/terrain/trapping). So it is a little unfair to compare the two solely on skill points as harvesting is not the only thing a MR should be good at. I am really hoping the Combat Upgrade makes these other skills, particularly trapping and camping, much much more useful and making rangers a needed asset in any group (which groups in turn should also be more of a necessity).
I think it is fair to compare the two solely on skill points. Its seems everyone thinks of a Master Ranger as a glorified Master Scout. Looking again at a Master Armorsmith and Master Artisan differences, dramatic yet both are crafters. So shouldn't each and every ability a Master Ranger has, have no comparison to a Master Scout? The dramatic differences in Master Medic vs Master Doctor, Combat Medic, with same amounts of skill points used. Why can't the those types of differences be reflected in Master Scout and Master Ranger? I'm never changing professions over it, but I hope somewhere along the way they will look at it.
Owen-Lars
Fri Feb 18, 2005 2:37 pm
#125
Im logging in to test this out but i dont like it one bit.
I cant see what justifies rangers not getting the bonus too. Ok we spend our skill points getting to master ranger, have increased harvest rates. But when we go and group with other people (non rangers) they get double the bonus?
Sorry but thats well out of line. The reason i was so convinced that the ranger gets the bonus too is because its only fair. If its a group benefit then master rangers who have invested the skill points should also get the bonus (the 40%). Its a group effect so why cant we have it?
Like i said ill go do some testing but as i see it now its bang out of order.
The whole purpose of the discussions was to make sure rangers (who invest more in harvesting) get the most out of the bonus (by providing and recieving). We hated the idea of others getting a full bonus even though we spend so many skill points more. This change could of fixed that to a degree. We accepted that the group wide bonus is still in effect and we get another 20% on top of that so we got on with it. Now you are telling us only non-master rangers will benefit from this when in a hunting group? Bah
Ok off to test but i doubt my fealings will change on this, if this is just a group enhancement then let the whole group get the bonus then (inc rangers). I honestly though this was a possitive change but as i see it you can have 19 non-rangers in a group with me getting 40% bonus and me only getting 20%, this is worse than before imo.
The idea was to not impact the rangers investment in harvesting by giving everyone bonuses.
Dariane_Kamutsovy
Fri Feb 18, 2005 2:43 pm
#126
Tiggs wrote:
Atherin wrote:
You are fogetting that the MR already gets a bonus to his harvest just for being a MR. He gets 20% on top of that for being in a group. And the group members get 40% on top of whaterver profession bonus they also have.
We will have to test the numbers but it looks at first blush to work out fairly equitably.
Exactly!! Like I said earlier this is a bonus for grouping not for being a master ranger/ranger.
Good. So if the ranger is NOT getting the bonus, he is not considered part of the group. Hence the rest of the group should not get the bonus either???
You have got to love logic.
Dariane_Kamutsovy
Fri Feb 18, 2005 2:47 pm
#127
It is NOT a bonus... MASTER Ranger is BOUGHT via SKILLPOINTS...
Arg0nus wrote:
Not sure why this is so hard to understand....
Bob the Master Rifleman/4,0,4,0 Scout groups and hunts with Joe the Master Pikeman/Ranger.
Being that Joe is a Master Ranger, and gets a HIGHER HARVESTING BONUS for beingaMaster ranger....(Creature Harvesting at +105)
Bob gets only a +45...Joe can harvest WAY more without the bonus to grouping.
So...A Master Ranger STILL will harvest more then anyone else...even counting the grouping bonus.
Oculus
Fri Feb 18, 2005 2:47 pm
#128
Tiggs wrote:
Atherin wrote:You are fogetting that the MR already gets a bonus to his harvest just for being a MR. He gets 20% on top of that for being in a group. And the group members get 40% on top of whaterver profession bonus they also have.We will have to test the numbers but it looks at first blush to work out fairly equitably.
Exactly!! Like I said earlier this is a bonus for grouping not for being a master ranger/ranger.
Great! Now when can we expect to see group bonuses to combat skills?
What a tease... finally thought we got a little something beack for the huge SP investment.
When will traps work on pets and players? Afterall, TEFs are gone
No?How about dropping these harvest changes then. Just apply a 20% grouping bonus and be done with it.
Why are you even going to spend precious CPU cycles checking for rangers in 64m range? Well apart from making the harvest difference between a grouped novice scout and a master ranger less than tangible.
If it's supposed to be a group bonus. Why even include the ranger aspect at all? Because it makes sense? No, the 20& increase even without a ranger kinda takes away that argument.
Because you want rangers to be sought after by groups? Well before this I'd hunt with friends and guildmates, even with the penalty. After this I'm sure as hades not going to group with complete strangers if it's for harvesting. Bring them up to par with my harvesting skills only for them to sell on the same market as me? Sorry, it's my only monkey making opportunity and I know about supply and demand
Message Edited by Oculus on 02-18-2005 11:41 PM
Oku Kee'lus
Vorpaks
Fri Feb 18, 2005 2:51 pm
#129
My questions to myself while testing, and my questions to you all and to the developers will be:
Why were these changes made? Who was meant to benefit from them? Are they benefiting from them?
How much more can a MRanger harvest than a Ranger 0040? How many more skill points does a MRanger have to spend to do so and is the investment worth it?
What is the intention behind closing the gap between what a MRanger can harvest and what a dabbler or a non-Ranger can harvest? If the intention is to reduce the MRanger role as primary hunter in the galaxy (as will be the result) why is this deemed necessary?
Is this change fun?
Why were these changes made? Who was meant to benefit from them? Are they benefiting from them?
How much more can a MRanger harvest than a Ranger 0040? How many more skill points does a MRanger have to spend to do so and is the investment worth it?
What is the intention behind closing the gap between what a MRanger can harvest and what a dabbler or a non-Ranger can harvest? If the intention is to reduce the MRanger role as primary hunter in the galaxy (as will be the result) why is this deemed necessary?
Is this change fun?
Message Edited by Vorpaks on 02-18-2005 04:52 PM
Calculus_Entropy
Fri Feb 18, 2005 2:55 pm
#130
I made one comment in green, but the rest of the questions are very good and will help us to understand this change better!
Vorpaks wrote:
My questions to myself while testing, and my questions to you all and to the developers will be:
Why were these changes made? Who was meant to benefit from them? Are they benefiting from them?
How much more can a MRanger harvest than a Ranger 0040? How many more skill points does a MRanger have to spend to do so and is the investment worth it? This can be answered by testing.
What is the intention behind closing the gap between what a MRanger can harvest and what a dabbler or a non-Ranger can harvest? If the intention is to reduce the MRanger role as primary hunter in the galaxy (as will be the result) why is this deemed necessary?
Is this change fun?
Message Edited by Vorpaks on 02-18-2005 04:52 PM