Politician Archive
Thread: Devs Why would you do this?
Somebody, please tell me why we have a whole tree of militia, when the militia has no powers, except /grantzoning?
Time to wipe the list of militia and just have city senators on militia for /grantzoning.
Kade_Deveron wrote:
I am utterly, completely dumbfounded at the recent announcement that /citywarn is being removed from the game. This is one of those features that FINALLY allow players some control over territory and a sense of community and ownership....and you take it away. I truly dont understand.
Only thing that should happen is we should whine as much as those who wanted to get rid of it did. None of them made compelling arguments as to why it was a built-in griefing tool. They just said what they had to louder and more often.
WE WANT /citywarn BACK
Boyd_Latta wrote:
why not revok cityban just for cities where abuses are reported. Remove it for a time period of say 1-2 weeks, if they do it again, make it longer, 3 strikes no /cityban.
That won't work. How do you determine who's abusing and who's not?
It should be simple. If people want to keep others out of their city, they should be able to. You shouldn't HAVE the right to go in there if they don't want you to. They're only hurting themselves by keeping you out.
what if you want a Neutral only city, no rebs or imps, how do they keep pvp from happening in the streets? How do they keep out the people they don't want? I understand that some of this might not sound like it fits in an "educated, civilized" world, but THIS IS A GAME, where it's not civilized, peoples guards are up, Times are hard, Or what if you wanted a Medical City, NO ENTERTAINERS ALLOWED, sure you could as the person to leave, but why would they? because they had too, or face the concesquences! Citywarn is a part of the game, that has been over due, just like player cities, mounts and vechiles.
Citywarn keeps the game inline with the movies, where as overt rebels dancing in theed, or Smugglers shouting the sale of spice in an imperial city where it would be against the law to posses it, is not. and yall want to take it away....figures
ChoNaguriai wrote:
Kade_Deveron wrote:
No one is forcing players to come to player cities, and two minutes and plenty of time to get out if you get warned. Removing /citywarn will do nothing more than neuter player cities ability to police themselves AND open cities to verbal griefing and harassing. Our city is an imperial city. Now ANY covert rebel can wander about with impunity and we cant do a thing about it. Thanks so much
I like the removal of /citywarn. There is no crime that players can commit in a city that can't be handled by /ignore. The only crime is verbal abuse.
If your city is an Imperial city, then you will have a faction base and covert scanners placed throughout town. Problem solved.
Patently untrue. There are MANY ways to grief someone that /addignore does nothing to stop.
1. Running around a stage during a performance
2. Physical emotes used to simulate any number of things that are considered harassment
3. Dragging Aggressive, high level monsters into the middle of a player city
4. Fighting, which causes sounds and visual effects that aren't affected by /addignore and would ruin a social gathering.
5. Pulling out huge pets and using them to make it so no one can see anyone else.
That's just off the top of my head. So how does /addignore address any of these problems?
Falin
FalinMor wrote:
There are MANY ways to grief someone that /addignore does nothing to stop.
1. Running around a stage during a performance
2. Physical emotes used to simulate any number of things that are considered harassment
3. Dragging Aggressive, high level monsters into the middle of a player city
4. Fighting, which causes sounds and visual effects that aren't affected by /addignore and would ruin a social gathering.
5. Pulling out huge pets and using them to make it so no one can see anyone else.
That's just off the top of my head. So how does /addignore address any of these problems?
Falin
These are minor cases compared to the grief potential that /citywarn invokes. From my experience and those around me on our server, I have seen a much larger volume of /citywarn grief cases than rare instances you mention above.
Let me give you an example, FalinMor. I have a nice long ride to my city from the closest shuttle port. We are a smaller town (Rank 2 for now) and will not have a shuttle for some time. Smack-dab in the middle of our ride has sprung a Rebel city. This city is paranoid to the extreme. No sooner does any non-Rebel (neutral or otherwise) cross their border than their militia /citywarns and opens fire after the timer is up. This city is much larger than ours and is on target to become a Class 4 and 5 when it can. Fallinmor has often said "Well then you need to ride around the city!"Try ridingaround a 900 meter diameter circle multiple times per day for weeks. And what if they get some nice Rebel neighbors who build near them? Well there goes another 900 meter circle we can no longer cross. Give me an annoying CH any day of the week (see your minor example #5).
If any of your cases above are true griefing, get a CSR involved. Case closed.
Situation two: Noviceartisans hand sampling for valuable resources. If the prime concentration lays within the 900 meter diameter... sorry, you're dead. As any artisan knows, 900 meters (even 450 if we just go by radius) can mean a huge difference between concentration levels.
Again, this is not even touching POI griefing, which is a dead horse at this point.
I'm sorry FalinMor, you'll have to do better to convince me (and apparently the devs) that /citywarn is more of a boon than a burden.
Greets ...
You know ... whining and saying you want it back isn't helping a darned thing.
They know you want it back ...
The problem is the very real "exploit" that was being used.
Come up with inovative solutions might just help the situation.
If you just want to be an *ostrich* and stick your head in the sand and say you want it back ... they are going to ignore you.
I am sure they are discussing what they can do ... to bad you guys aren't doing the same thing ... coming up with ideas and what *would* work .. instead of moaning and complaining like 12 year old kids ... (oops, sorry, some of you are 12 year old kids)
ChoNaguiai how about situation #3 a PvP who won't take no for an answer comes to your faction affiliated town and starts using his covert scanner to attack everyone and anyone in site until he finally gets taken out. Then he rinses and repeats until he gets bored. This means that our militia would have to declare to defend the city, because that is the only way they can attack this guy. Of course we don't have a recruiter yet, but will, but think about how many inocent artisans entertainers, and other non-comabatants will have to die because your militia is basically useless. I think at the very least the militia should be allowed to attack anyone attacking a citizen.
And a comment on your first situation. I went to test and ried the vehicles. If you can't get 900m in 2 minutes on a vehicle you need your liscence revoked. On a mount it would be closer, but I'd be willing to bet that unless you are dallying in the city or can't ride straight, there is no way they are going to catch you beforeyou leave thecity-limits. Remember,they need to keep up with you to which basically means they would have to a)know you were comming so they could warn you at the first city limit you crossed, b) be mounted themselves so that they could keep up with you, andc) you would have to again dally around in the city so that theycan kill you with their regular attack (if you are foolhardy enough to not burst when you need to)
On the second situation if their harvestors aren't in city limits see above. If they are, they can still run into trouble, because the city can just change their zoning setup and you are out.
My 2 cents
Mykel Syen
Radiant
There is no crime that players can commit in a city that can't be handled by /ignore.
That's not the point. There doesnt need to be a crime. It's our city, we should be able to run it however we want. If a city does not want any non citizen to ever step foot in the city, isnt that their choice? The people who get griefed have noone to blame but themselves. They should not have been going to that city in the first place.
Also, with the cloner thing it was worse. With that being fixed, there should be no reason to remove citywarn
This is my first post here, but as I feel quite strongly about this subjectI decided I must break my status as a lurker. The /citywarn command first and foremost violates one of the single most important aspects of SWG. A neutral player has by choice decided they wish to have nothing to do with PvP. As the very foundation of this game revolves around voluntary PvP, the use of a command to remove that choice from a player is inexcusable. If, and only if, the /citywarn command would exclude neutrals would I find it acceptable.
For those who feel they have the right to block access to content from other players by telling them they have the choice to stay in a NPC city or risk engaging in PvP by traveling, please think again. The vast majority of players (76% by the last metrics) are neutral and thereby have opted to not engage in any form of involuntary PvP, yet have by default near unlimted access to exact same content factions players do. By preventing unrestricted travel you are in effect griefing neutrals though coercion and threat, either directly or indirectly.
If you would like to respond to this in a manner that is both informed and mature, I would be happy to debate the issue further...
Niska wrote:
This is my first post here, but as I feel quite strongly about this subjectI decided I must break my status as a lurker. The /citywarn command first and foremost violates one of the single most important aspects of SWG. A neutral player has by choice decided they wish to have nothing to do with PvP. As the very foundation of this game revolves around voluntary PvP, the use of a command to remove that choice from a player is inexcusable. If, and only if, the /citywarn command would exclude neutrals would I find it acceptable.
For those who feel they have the right to block access to content from other players by telling them they have the choice to stay in a NPC city or risk engaging in PvP by traveling, please think again. The vast majority of players (76% by the last metrics) are neutral and thereby have opted to not engage in any form of involuntary PvP, yet have by default near unlimted access to exact same content factions players do. By preventing unrestricted travel you are in effect griefing neutrals though coercion and threat, either directly or indirectly.
If you would like to respond to this in a manner that is both informed and mature, I would be happy to debate the issue further...
First of all....being neutral doesn't really have anything to do with PvP or not pvp'ing....it's about not choosing a side inthe GCW.
Second - the charge of "blocking content". Most people here agree that Content (such as POI's) should either be no build zones OR the citywarn command should not work in cities whose radius crosses the POI. You do not have to remove citywarn from cities that do not cover a POI and are not blocking content. Removing citywarn is overkill and short-sighted in my very humble opinion.
Third - "un-restricted travel" is currently not available anyway - you cannot travel in a straight line on a planet and go afk, there are always things to be wary of, and player cities are one of those things. I would be willing to bet that 99% of player cities wouldn't every /citywarn a neutral player thats passing through but even if they did - the choice to pvp or not is still with our neutral friend....he or she has 2 minutes to find the city border and cross it - which is ample time.
This is NOT a case where pvp is forced upon masses of neutral players by all of the evil cities out there.....if you get warned in a town...then get out - Player cities are here to stay (assuming they don't all get destroyed by the shifting land-mass 
) the city is "owned" by the citizens....the will of the citizens is enforced by the militia - if they don't want you in their city, that is their choice and most people believe that is how it SHOULD be