Politician Archive
Thread: A need to SAVE player cities?
DarthEhsan
Fri Jun 11, 2004 7:14 am
#14
The best way toget traffic toplayer cities Is toadd bazzars to player cities. And to stop people from piggybacking your city like placing their house at the border to avoid all taxes yet not too far away to use the city normall is to expand city limits. What you can do it have a area like we have now for houses And then an extra ring around it which can only have factories harvesters and bases. It will make things look nicers.
revisoHT
Fri Jun 11, 2004 11:25 am
#15
I hear a lot of people complaining that player cities are 'dead' and 'empty'. What are they expecting, exactly? The coronet starport with it's lively 50 afk macro spammers? Consider a few things first - most player cities have 50-80 residents playing on their own schedules, out running missions for credits or earning xp for their various professions. Do you expect that all 50 will be online all the time just standing and waiting for visitors to come to the city? On behalf of my city, I appologize, but walmart hired away all the qualified greeters.
Fneegan
Fri Jun 11, 2004 11:58 am
#16
First, I think with the game now being over a year or so old, many original old timers have left and the population has reduced a little. There may be a few city/guilds feuds - but overall, they would have little impact. If yo look at the latest statistics, there are big numbers on servers (9k on Shadowfire alone) although many are probably online a various times and maybe appears more desolate than normal.
What counts the most is getting new players into the game and keeping them and the old players. I think, the Space-X will do that for awhile butsomething will always need to be done to revive and re-advertise the game to keep it alive.
I also think, there are probably more aspiring ppl who are more aware of mayors and players cities then before and want to take a stab at it - but I think, they should actually join an existing player city as one strong and establishedcity is better than 2 or 3 small one's struggling with taxes, treasury payments and keeping and recruitingcitizens and that is probably why some seem to appear to by dying. On Rori, we only have 2 cities that have over 55 citizens (and shuttleports) but there are some who will try a new city on Rori or Lok but eventually over time they fall apart.
Although cities provide additional content and a 'social' community to players, since the game is open to all ages (from very young to old) - it's not enough to help cities thrive. Many younger players cannot commit the time or their parents don't allow them to play offen enough to keep them interested and in the game and cities eventually lose them. The 1 month free, the gamecard andand the 14 day free trials don't help either.
What can help cities is to reduce the overall cost of maintaing one. I currently have tax at 2000, shuttle fee 100 and vehicle repair at 200 and it only covers approx. 50% of the city cost of 380k per week. Should I burden citizens with more tax ?
As for NPC cities, I enjoy the spamming other than it's difficult to read all the many conversations going onat the same time. I love the sales and seeing a speaking with ppl. I know, if I want to find something, I'll go to either Coronet or Theed. I prefer the spamming staying there...lol
Pentium4
Fri Jun 11, 2004 1:21 pm
#17
NBScoop wrote:
Greetings Friends!
As a founder of a player city that reached rank 4 (almost 5) despite being over 5km from a shuttleport...and now been away from game for 6 months and having traveled around the various planets looking at what player cities are alive ...I've made the following observations:
- player cities are in large part dying...most have houses outside their current rank borders..indicating contraction of the city. [agree to an extent, they certainly are not expanding]
- player cities (at just about any time of day) have noone in the city ...at best one or two and thats I'd put at in under 10% of the cities I've visited. [Totally agree, everyone is at the npc cities or out and about]
- NPC city build borders are PACKED with player housing (example: Coronet on Corbantis has estimated at nearly 3k houses around the perimeter of the city. [agree, For the following reasons; It's closest to were everyone is so its a good place to put a vendor; It's closest to a starport which you need to travel off planet;it has everything a player city has to offer and more.]
So the question begs to be asked....are player cities in trouble? why be apart of a player city? [Can't answer the first questions but your second is a question I've been trying to answer everyday since I becamea mayor]
The evidence would point to ..staying close to an NPC city is over more value then being a part of a player city...true or false? [True; I've even considered moving closer and I'm the mayor of a rank 3 town. But I'm not going to.]
Yes .being a part of your guild or a part of a city for its so-called 'social' value was thought to be enough to help cities thrive. However, that is naive at best...and anyone who's been playing mmo's for years knows this...the herd gathers around the areas' of least resistance and in this case...that is NOTplayer cities. [I wouldn't say "least resistance" but rather you go were your gaming experience is the best or funnest, but maybe thats what you mean.]
So what's to be done about this?
I know most would answer...give player cities SP capability....and yes...I think thats going to have to happen. No way around it as having to take two ports to get off a planet makes it a 'point of resistance. [ It's true that you need to travel to a starport in order to get to another planet [Probably true but I'm not convinced that this is the real problem. There are multiple ways to travel through Corellia; Kor vella, Coronet, Doa, etc. yet most people go through Coronet...why?]
Secondly and harder to implement (or prevent) is ...Merchant spamming in NPC cities. Remove this and folks will have to "SHOP" for their goods via the markets. And yes...finding goods is also a "path of resistance" and that is why "city spammers" and merchants have consolidated around NPC cities ... basically putting the dagger in the back of player cities. [I'd say remove the "reason" to spam;right now it's the onlyway to advertise in the game that you have goods for sale, the dev's need toprovide an effective alternative]
Well that's my observations upon return.
Your thoughts? [Why do people hang out and run missions from NPC towns? Because thats were the buffers, entertainers, and other potential group members are. Why? Because thats were the buffers and entertainers are; Why? Because thats were everyone is hanging out so they get the most business. Why? Well...because everything you need is in the npctown...including a startport. That is not necessarily true for a Player City...especially a SP. Those are my "thoughts" I'm not trying to say this IS how everythingworks, just my observations]
Cheers
SargusQuintek
Fri Jun 11, 2004 6:03 pm
#18
I'm quite happy with our city. We have alot ofvisitors and our citizens are fairly active. We plan city wide hunts and our merchant area has alot of traffic. We do have 5 guilds in our city though. We grow weekly by about 5 citizens.
I have to gulp each week we pay out that 500k+ maintenance though. I would really like to see more income from city placements. The money paid into the garage, shuttle, trainers, cloning, insurance etc.. Why is this not all sent straight to the city treasury minus the tribute to the planetary government? We rely completely on donations. We have a few successful players but it just doesn't seem right for them to carry the burden. We don't tax because that just hurts the little guys. We don't want to drive out the casual and new players with expenses they just can't afford.
I hope to see starports and bazaars added to the player cities. I do not think this will hurt npc city population because most of the player cities are filled with citizens or occasional visitors. I think places like Theed and Coronet will always be population centers because it is a common neutral ground for players of different PAs and factions. Having starports and bazaars in player cities will help increase outside traffic somewhat.
Of course these are my opinions and they may not always be the same as others 
theonebountyhunter
Sun Jun 13, 2004 1:25 am
#19
I guess our city is one of the few fortunate.
We only have one guild for our city.
You have to be a member of WOOK to be a citizen of Mos Kashyyyk, Tatooine
We just added an industrial zone. 12 factories of each type except structure I think it was 6 or 8.
A new crafting house which as all 45.00 crafting stations available for use for a small entry fee.
We have 10-12 merchant tents with multiple vendors in some all of which stay stocked more then I can say for some malls.
In our cantina you can find all the spices and food you could ever want.
With having a mix of UK, US, and Australian players you can almost always find players around town.
It may only be 1-5 at that moment but even at 3.33am cst there are 6 people only 2 of which are in our guild in the market area of our city.
So with having a very successful merchant team and our new industrial park, we bring in a fair amount of traffic.
Our city treasury stays around 4-7mill.
1 guild 1 city 1 goal and it all works for the best.
If anyone from other servers would like to tour our fair city feel frea to contact me
I'll tip ya the cash to get a ticket here and give you the grand tour.
We only have one guild for our city.
You have to be a member of WOOK to be a citizen of Mos Kashyyyk, Tatooine
We just added an industrial zone. 12 factories of each type except structure I think it was 6 or 8.
A new crafting house which as all 45.00 crafting stations available for use for a small entry fee.
We have 10-12 merchant tents with multiple vendors in some all of which stay stocked more then I can say for some malls.
In our cantina you can find all the spices and food you could ever want.
With having a mix of UK, US, and Australian players you can almost always find players around town.
It may only be 1-5 at that moment but even at 3.33am cst there are 6 people only 2 of which are in our guild in the market area of our city.
So with having a very successful merchant team and our new industrial park, we bring in a fair amount of traffic.
Our city treasury stays around 4-7mill.
1 guild 1 city 1 goal and it all works for the best.
If anyone from other servers would like to tour our fair city feel frea to contact me
I'll tip ya the cash to get a ticket here and give you the grand tour.
Chibi-Bar
Sun Jun 13, 2004 7:50 pm
#20
out city is in trouble mainly the general citizens are old players.... we are trying to recruit new players but not many wants to live on Dantooine on lowca.. 
ah well.... we are going to be reduce to level 3 at this rate...
ah well.... we are going to be reduce to level 3 at this rate...
GadonThek
Mon Jun 14, 2004 12:38 am
#21
Im considering buying a second account so that I can create a little outpost for players who like the wilderness. It will probably be for other Rangers and CHs, as those are generally the professions who choose not to race around everywhere on speeder, and also tend to dislike the bustle of the major cities.
I do, however, think that there are far too many people who have had the same idea as me, and that as a result, there are now far too many small player cities dotted across the landscape on many servers.
My solution is simple, the developers need to reduce the cap on player cities, substantially, to around 3 per planet, in my view. Along with such a change would have to come a far more robust political system, enabling players a real chance to engage in political wrangling. Imagine actually having to put together a manifesto, campaign for votes, and then actually have the power to change things for a large group of players, it would be fantastic, and a true realisation of what I feel player cities should have been.
There would, of course, be problems implimenting this idea, there would have to be a long period of warning before reducing the cap, to allow cities to wind down and remove buildings. Perhaps give Mayors a one-time oppertunity to break down their city buildings and decorations into component materials to sell on.
I do, however, think that there are far too many people who have had the same idea as me, and that as a result, there are now far too many small player cities dotted across the landscape on many servers.
My solution is simple, the developers need to reduce the cap on player cities, substantially, to around 3 per planet, in my view. Along with such a change would have to come a far more robust political system, enabling players a real chance to engage in political wrangling. Imagine actually having to put together a manifesto, campaign for votes, and then actually have the power to change things for a large group of players, it would be fantastic, and a true realisation of what I feel player cities should have been.
There would, of course, be problems implimenting this idea, there would have to be a long period of warning before reducing the cap, to allow cities to wind down and remove buildings. Perhaps give Mayors a one-time oppertunity to break down their city buildings and decorations into component materials to sell on.
SargusQuintek
Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:19 am
#22
That was the problem we had. You have to be active as a mayor to keep your city alive. Players come and go and you have to find ways to replace those that leave. You are on the same server, so if you ever want to leave the lag infested Dantooine for Naboo then contact Digby about moving to The Lost City. It is close to Kaadara. It is a lvl 5 research center with all the trappings of a city. We have no taxes and 5 guilds residing in it. Any guild that moves in gets their own militia to move their own folks as they need to. Come by and tour it
JediScoop
Mon Jun 14, 2004 10:38 am
#23
Yup as a few of you have mentioned...tons of active crafters with fully stocked vendors is really the only way to maintain city traffic atm...but again..that doesnt hold folks in or around they city...it just gets you momentary visitors. We advertised extensively on these boards...held Artisan Fair's...Swoop Races...even advertised "music/dancer/doctor" services, etc...and yet ...in the end there was no real reason to be in or around the city due to their just being more traffic through the NPC cities.
As to what should we expect in the cities??
Well as someone mentioned about their city....our city...Sabacc City really was a successful city by all measures...we had huge trade volume fromthe Sabacc City Mall (even after moving it from just north ofCoronet to a location 4.5km from anyNPC city) and this easily covered city expenses (I recall expensesgetting up over 1 million per week). We also had just one guild "Sabacc Legends" and a few other folks from other guilds who just wanted to be near our vendors and in our nicely laid out city 
Someone was usually incity...usually there to buy goods from the Mall. However, due to Corellia being a starter planet...hunting isnt very good and as such most folks spent their time away from Corellia...ie: contributing to the problem.Now we built Sabacc City next to one of the NPC battle sites to help ease that issue...to give folks a quick, nearby location for xp'n on the fly...but in the end that didn't solve things either..especially when they removed the battlefield that was next to us also
Someone was usually incity...usually there to buy goods from the Mall. However, due to Corellia being a starter planet...hunting isnt very good and as such most folks spent their time away from Corellia...ie: contributing to the problem.Now we built Sabacc City next to one of the NPC battle sites to help ease that issue...to give folks a quick, nearby location for xp'n on the fly...but in the end that didn't solve things either..especially when they removed the battlefield that was next to us also Anyways, alot of this is systemic of the "Jedi Grind" ...and once this went into effect the economy and all the steady crafters began to turn over and thus, disrupted everything we spent so much effort building from the start.
In light of this, my comments about the city issues is drawn from my experience prior to the "Jedi Grind" ...because with the "Jedi Grind" in the equation...there is no logic to the economy nor to player behavior and thus, gameplay. This will all be changing again once the "Jedi Trials" go in and things will revert to the way they were in the beginning. This is why I raise this discussion....as it was a problem prior to the grind and I think some idea's need to be put on the table for future resolutions ...otherwise ...you might as well shut the cities down...along with the professions associated with them ...and that will have a dramatic trickle down effect on all crafting professions.
Anyway, I'll keep tossing around some ideas...we can only try to contribute to the evolution
Kek_Am-Heh
Mon Jun 14, 2004 11:22 am
#24
The player city I live in on the chilastra server (Pax Praetoria, Lok) is full of people all the time except when people are sleeping. This might be the minority of cityies, but we have at least 10 people in our city at peak hours, unless we are raiding someone. We have some well established crafters, and 14 factional bases. We have found that most of the time grinding missions for money and xp/fp on Lok is just as good as anywhere else. Our city is made up of just our PA and we socialize together pretty well. Maybe it is not the game's fault for player cities not being popular, mayb its the citizens.
Gron_DM
Mon Jun 14, 2004 3:48 pm
#25
i had a feeling when i decided to go for a city that competition/traffic would be the dominating factors so our city became the gateway to jabbas. yes we used about 10 buffer citizens but heck once we got shuttle we were locked in. shortly after they added music buffing we added an afk person in the cantina doing that, and recently setup a doc buff bot. and of course we had a mall virtually the whole time. oh SL was one of my competitions, i still cant believe they disbanded that city one of the few-pre-city player cities to be there. i still have a ton of respect for the whole SL crew, if i had started on correllia instead of tat i probably would have been a SL myself. cities that dont have a good POI are pretty much screwed, espcially if they are on an off planet like rori, talus so on. there are a few cases were ppl get around this but in most cases at a very high labor cost, which in the long run is hard to maintain. and since the clock only sttops ticking 1 hour a day or so that will wear down the most industrious mayor eventually.
NBScoop
Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:29 pm
#26
Thanks Gronn...aye been out to your city before...and yes...keeping up alot of faction bases is likely the one thing that keeps the demand for other the other professions active in the city. This is likely our one mistake...we decided not to go with faction bases due to them being so bugged and GCW being so ...well futile. But again..we were so focused on trade at the time...adding the frustration of HQ bugs would have likely sent me over the edge ...hehehe
But again...assuming all the GCW stuff is worth the effort...it does look like making your city 'faction oriented' has the best chance of keeping it active from any professions angle. Kudos for the effort bud