Politician Archive

Thread: A need to SAVE player cities?

NBScoop
Fri Jun 04, 2004 9:01 am
#1

Greetings Friends!


As a founder of a player city that reached rank 4 (almost 5) despite being over 5km from a shuttleport...and now been away from game for 6 months and having traveled around the various planets looking at what player cities are alive ...I've made the following observations:


- player cities are in large part dying...most have houses outside their current rank borders..indicating contraction of the city.

- player cities (at just about any time of day) have noone in the city ...at best one or two and thats I'd put at in under 10% of the cities I've visited.

- NPC city build borders are PACKED with player housing (example: Coronet on Corbantis has estimated at nearly 3k houses around the perimeter of the city.


So the question begs to be asked....are player cities in trouble? why be apart of a player city?


The evidence would point to ..staying close to an NPC city is over more value then being a part of a player city...true or false?



Yes .being a part of your guild or a part of a city for its so-called 'social' value was thought to be enough to help cities thrive. However, that is naive at best...and anyone who's been playing mmo's for years knows this...the herd gathers around the areas' of least resistance and in this case...that is NOTplayer cities.


So what's to be done about this?


I know most would answer...give player cities SP capability....and yes...I think thats going to have to happen. No way around it as having to take two ports to get off a planet makes it a 'point of resistance'.


Secondly and harder to implement (or prevent) is ...Merchant spamming in NPC cities. Remove this and folks will have to "SHOP" for their goods via the markets. And yes...finding goods is also a "path of resistance" and that is why "city spammers" and merchants have consolidated around NPC cities ... basically putting the dagger in the back of player cities.


Well that's my observations upon return.


Your thoughts?


Cheers



Scoop / Solus --- Sabacc Legends (Co-GM)

Sabacc Ranch --- (City Hall: [Eyes Only])

(Sabacc Supply Depot: [Eyes Only]) --- (Pure Sabacc Pub: [Eyes Only])

Sabacc City Memorial Site --- (Sabacc Natural Spring Park: 3760, -2460)

DaQuilla
Fri Jun 04, 2004 9:42 am
#2

Well, before Spaceports are introduced to player cities, I think a kind of bazaar network would improve cities more. Spaceports are only that full, because there are so few of them => a place to meet. Give PCs this ability, and still moste players (that simply don't care about PCs or that live in the 90% PCs that won't get a Starport) will still travel through the NPC Spaceports => the few PCs with Spaceports don't get much better.


What can you do to make your city more populare and full of more life?


Events and Roleplay.


Events to get people to come to your city, and good roleplay with a special flair to bind them their. Best place for that is always the "local cantina" - keep in touch with tie citizens, let them - no - make them participate activly in city matters. You have to try and build up communities, and don't stop thinking at your cities boarders ...


Action Action


Players come ingame to see some action - build up PvP fortresses in the GCW with tough men (and women) guarding it - there are several stories in these and other boards of weeks and months of nonstop fun fighting about such cities.


But no matter how you do it, it will always cost you a lot of work to get to the players so they come to your city and stay - after all, this is only a game for spare time - people do move on to other games, and a considerable percentage of this ingame time is built around killing MOBs and not about sitting in PCs.



Kheraba City - . - . - . - . - M a y o r - . - . - . - . - . - . - Etraes'Khar
A place to call your home - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - Many are called, few are chosen
- Where they play that Jizzz - The Green Fizz - Player Cantina Snacks&Drinks

- Tatooine - -3230 -6150 - Gorath Galaxy

BanthaTrainer
Fri Jun 04, 2004 10:48 am
#3

BUILD ARMY, BURN, DESTOY!!!!(the npc cities)



----------------------------

"Leader, Helper, Sharpshooter"
~ Qualities of the Banthatrainer

"Führer, Helfer, Scharfer tireur"
~Qualitäten des Banthatrainer
Arrya
Fri Jun 04, 2004 11:38 am
#4

I have been the mayor of one of the most popular cities on Shadowfire since player cities were introduced.


I would say, without a doubt, player cities are in trouble. When they were first introduced, player cites had a good amount of activity. Since then, the devs have favored NPC cities in pretty much every patch, and that has slowly drawn people away. Whether it is bazaars, ID tents, quests, faction recruiters, cheaper garage fees, spaceports - player cities just cannot compete. Granted, you can throw events and do social things in player cities - but that is a temporary thing, you work very hard to get a lot of people to your city for a few hours - then they leave. The majority of the players out there have no reason to visit a player city, let alone live in one. Player cities are good for 2 things right now - shopping and faction bases. Those things are pretty much the only reason player active cities exist, and in most cases, they don't really justify the work and resources it takes to run a city.


Giving Player cities a starport would definitely help revitalize them. At the same time though, it would kill most NPC cities and I think the devs are so sensitive to protecting their NPCs that I don't think they will ever consider it. The fact is that there are only a certain number of cities that the population can really "populate" - maybe 2-3 per main planet and 1-2 per outter planet. We have far too many cities out there, it is inevitable that many are going to be deserted. The devs seem to be coming across pretty clear that they don't want the NPC cities to be deserted.


The biggest problem though is looking to the future. The space expansion will make starports even more crucial to launch your ship from and the introduction of a stronger loot based economy will make player run shops less useful. Everyone will have to base their operations out of a starport city and most trade will be more barter based.


Player cities are fighting a loosing battle to actually be a functioning "city". My 6 month old metropolis looks more like a little outletmall - and we have basically been shrinking since we hit our peak 3 months ago.



_______________________________________________________
Arsenal
The little green Napoleon
_______________________________________________________
Songe
Fri Jun 04, 2004 4:08 pm
#5


In restrospect I think that player cities were a bad idea. It's easier to live at a 1m ride from a starport than to have to take another shuttleport to go home, when you are even lucky to have one, and it just made more cities dead because people are spread out everywhere. When they were introduced it was a good thing because there were no bikes to make you go home faster than a shuttleport can take you. Now it's just more desert towns that are slowly dying. The only advantage I can think of about player cities are the specialities (I love research center).


If PCs had a starport? I'd be the first one to leave my city to go live to one with one. It would just help kill the small cities faster.


Message Edited by Songe on 06-04-2004 07:10 PM



------

Novice Lekku Stomper
NBScoop
Fri Jun 04, 2004 10:27 pm
#6

True Songe..but...if you cut off the spam and give access to shuttleports...even small cities can build around bigger player cities...allowing for the dynamicshoped for...and really..are needed in a "true" GCW (note: there is not one atm)...and that being ..alliances or hell even allowing for active pvp cities or pve cities to build in areas and mutually help each other.


also...this is vital to the game to be addressed..since so many professions rely on the success of player cities. It's not that PC's are bad idea...it's just again another great example of how SOE..supposedly so wise from years of developing MMO's ...has learned squat about the 'human' factor in these games.


though I must say...hiring newbie coders (yes, something they admitted in writing) has really killed any efforts or plans they may have had to tweak and adjust plans along the way...since we're still paying for the coders education. /shakesfist ... this also explains why every system is only a skeleton of what it could and should have been.


Hope noone is holding breathe on the Jedi system and space expansion...going to be mighty purple waiting for those to get debugged and totally redone after the first failing pass at it...and no one is most angst by that reality then me


Anyways, back to the cities..hehe...it's all smoke anyways..since due to the above...will be another 2years before a relook at cities comes about. /sigh



Scoop / Solus --- Sabacc Legends (Co-GM)

Sabacc Ranch --- (City Hall: [Eyes Only])

(Sabacc Supply Depot: [Eyes Only]) --- (Pure Sabacc Pub: [Eyes Only])

Sabacc City Memorial Site --- (Sabacc Natural Spring Park: 3760, -2460)

SargusQuintek
Sat Jun 05, 2004 5:23 am
#7

Player cities is no doubt competitve. You had to compete from day 1 in placing your city hall and cities compete for the coveted cap slots. They also compete for citizens. So if a small city dies due to a larger city being more appealing that is natural selection.


Our city was basically our guild city. When our guild disbanded our city was in trouble. For about 2 months we struggled to keep our shuttle. So a handful of us decided we better take action and do something about it. We formed a new guild and recruited hard. We took our city from almost dying to one of the largest on Naboo. Keeping a city alive is hard work. What did keep us alive is other cities could not get a shuttleport so the guilds therebanded with us. I think caps are good. They keep player cities to a minimum and they force groups to work together. Otherwise, as an architect, I can tell you every single Joe Blow wants to have his own city to "give it a try". That will just, in my opinion, clutter the planetary map with hundreds of stupid names of dead cities.


My point is cities are alot of work and small ones will no doubt die out eventually. I see most small cities as homes to groups who want to be on their own. Larger cities must band with groups to survive. I don't see a reason why starports can not go in player cities. I posted in the starport thread that game cities will always be social gathering places for players. These are neutral spots for mixed groups to meet. People will not come together in player cities, in my opinion, unless they live there, shopping, or need to use the facitiies of the city. I never see people in player cities spamming to sell goods or services. Also if you take this feature out, although annoying, you would only succeed in creating a problem for those who have no merchant abilities. Every action has a reaction. Some have addressed this issue in the development forums by increasing the bazaar limits. I feel this would only starve out new players because most players want insane prices for their items. The bazaar is at least a nice place for new players to get cheaply equipped.


I would like to see bazaar terminals and starports added to player cities. They are a convenience that I feel in player cities will help in saving time for players to have fun rather than sit around waiting at shuttle terminals. I think one killer to cities is the maintenance costs. These are astronaumical in my opinion. We have the basics in our city and we cost 545k per week. The only means of getting this money is to tax or donations. The later is what we subscribe to. When you tax you only hurt the little guys who already are struggling to find a reason to play the game. The city structures and trainers need to have the money earned go into the treasury instead of the void. At the moment city structures are placed only as a convenience to those visiting. I feel they should be sources of income. The players supporting our city sometimes wonder the merit of spending their hard earned money every week to keep the few luxuries in our city. The DEVs need to make player cities more appealing for their survival. If they want to push socilization in the game they need to give us a helping hand to keep our means of socializing. We have enough credit sinks in the game as it is.


Well those are my ramblings





______________
"Real Life First"
SargusQuintek
Sat Jun 05, 2004 5:24 am
#8

Sorry for the double post. Stupid modem.



______________
"Real Life First"
NBScoop
Sat Jun 05, 2004 3:34 pm
#9

Totally agree on the city (trainers etc) fees going into the treasury.




Scoop / Solus --- Sabacc Legends (Co-GM)

Sabacc Ranch --- (City Hall: [Eyes Only])

(Sabacc Supply Depot: [Eyes Only]) --- (Pure Sabacc Pub: [Eyes Only])

Sabacc City Memorial Site --- (Sabacc Natural Spring Park: 3760, -2460)

SargusQuintek
Sun Jun 06, 2004 6:10 am
#10

That's an interesting idea. However, what would the player be able to do to a NPC city? Would you want them to be able to change its landscape? Would you want a 1K tax on using the starport? If they did something like this they would need to think of something the PC could do as mayor that could not be used as a griefing tactic.



______________
"Real Life First"
Just_Bri
Sun Jun 06, 2004 12:14 pm
#11

Perhaps the Devs could consider strictly zoning NPC cities for PC structures and allowing PC politicians to run for mayor of them? Those who wished to create thier own cities off the beaten path could do so, and those who wished to live near the NPC facilities could also do so. Either way, the politician profession would prosper due to PCs running ( and perhaps even competing ) with eachother for mayor positions of the NPC cities.



I mean just imagine... "Mayor of Mos Espa"





____________________________________________________________
"V E E L A" S A I D - Retired Master Smuggler, cancelled 7/27/2005. SOE, think about every non-Jedi "cancelled" signature you've seen, and remember that there will be more as you forget the communities that makes this game's heart and soul. Entertainers, Crafters, Hybrids, Non-Jedi Combats, and Smugglers. When you are closing shop on SWG, remember that you ignored the REAL community to cater to an alpha class that assured this game would never be "balanced."

*Veela encourages you to adopt this sig
NBScoop
Thu Jun 10, 2004 7:24 pm
#12

yup..nice idea there...where there is a will...a way can be found...though only good if your going to cling to the NPC cities..and not push more incentive to the player cities....but I still think the players would prefer the incentive in "THEiR" cities



Scoop / Solus --- Sabacc Legends (Co-GM)

Sabacc Ranch --- (City Hall: [Eyes Only])

(Sabacc Supply Depot: [Eyes Only]) --- (Pure Sabacc Pub: [Eyes Only])

Sabacc City Memorial Site --- (Sabacc Natural Spring Park: 3760, -2460)

BT-Trajan
Fri Jun 11, 2004 6:24 am
#13

In Aurora, we have worked hard to place many lamps(48) gardens(17) terminals and trainers (15). The problem is that all those extra wonderful things add up to a LOT of cash each week. The city taxes only bring in about 50% of the total bill for our city. If it werent for donations we would have long ago had to remove the nicer additive structures from the city. I would like to see mission payouts and trainer payments drop a bit of cash into the city treasury. One solution we have is to place factional bases. The mission terms in the faction base pay some credits to the base's maintenance fee and the city takes a portion of that. Of course, that is never a huge amount of money, but every little bit helps.Very soon I am going to have to move my city into a sponored garden model so that we can continue to afford the nicer things in SWG life. Either that or pull pull all the gardens to save 250k each week.





Hadrian Augustus
Mayor and Master Architect of Aurora
Naboo, Flurry Server


Catapultam habeo.
Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.

Translation: I have a catapult. Give me all the money, or I will fling an enormous rock at your head.
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