Politician Archive
Thread: Thanks to the Devs for the City Ban...
Khristen wrote:
Please watch your language, $$ or not.I really don't want to see this thread get locked.
My appologies, there is no excus for that, sorry.
Jutewr wrote:
AudioOrgana wrote:
Again, as I said above yet you ignored, forcing PvP isn't necessary.I understand that a certainsegment of players have this emotional reaction to PvP, it's pretty simple to understand - they fear getting spanked and bested by another player. They are pretty open about telling us that.
Actually, no. The reasons I don't want to be forced into PvP are:
- I don't like combat in this game and don't have much of an interest in partaking in it.
- Agree, it is wrong to force people into combat
- I am CL 11. I get forced into PvP, I'm dead.
- Yep, it is not fair
- I carry all of my stuff with me, crafting tools, instruments, sometimes clothing orders. I don't want it decaying because some player decided to kill me for no reason.
- Personally, I think they should do away with the Decay, with the rate that things are losing thier value there is simply no need for it now.
Well, I have to disagree with AudioOrgana's accessment of why people don't like PvP. Most of the people that the "foced PvP" disdain come from are the non-combat templates (ie < CL 80). They don't even do PvE for that matter and when they are forced into PvP is is a joke of a contest, so I can understand (and agree with) them not wanting "forced PvP".
The others, the ones that complain because they had TEF from running PvE combat missions I have little respect for. While I did not like TEF, my personal opinion is that there should be 2 states as there were before, but you should have to be Overt to engage in PvE or PvE GCW action.
I do not think you should be able to kill NPC's that are your "enemy" and at the same time not be attack by other "emeies" just because you don't want to be. That is not a war.
Those are just my thoughts and I know SoE disagrees as they tend to cater to "no risks or consiquences" for actions.
Message Edited by NihiMetal on 07-02-2005 08:44 AM
NihiMetal wrote:
Jutewr wrote:
AudioOrgana wrote:
Again, as I said above yet you ignored, forcing PvP isn't necessary. I understand that a certain segment of players have this emotional reaction to PvP, it's pretty simple to understand - they fear getting spanked and bested by another player. They are pretty open about telling us that.
Actually, no. The reasons I don't want to be forced into PvP are:
- I don't like combat in this game and don't have much of an interest in partaking in it.
- Agree, it is wrong to force people into combat
- I am CL 11. I get forced into PvP, I'm dead.
- Yep, it is not fair
- I carry all of my stuff with me, crafting tools, instruments, sometimes clothing orders. I don't want it decaying because some player decided to kill me for no reason.
- Personally, I think they should do away with the Decay, with the rate that things are losing thier value there is simply no need for it now.
Well, I have to disagree with AudioOrgana's accessment of why people don't like PvP. Most of the people that the "foced PvP" disdain come from are the non-combat templates (ie < CL 80). They don't even do PvE for that matter and when they are forced into PvP is is a joke of a contest, so I can understand (and agree with) them not wanting "forced PvP".The others, the ones that complain because they had TEF from running PvE combat missions I have little respect for. While I did not like TEF, my personal opinion is that there should be 2 states as there were before, but you should have to be Overt to engage in PvE or PvE GCW action.
I do not think you should be able to kill NPC's that are your "enemy" and at the same time not be attack by other "emeies" just because you don't want to be. That is not a war.
Those are just my thoughts and I know SoE disagrees as they tend to cater to "no risks or consiquences" for actions.
Message Edited by NihiMetal on 07-02-2005 08:44 AM
So your saying because the adreniline rush I get from PvP combat actually locks up my hands so I can not use them without pain for hours afterwards, I should not be able to take part in the Galatic Civil War? I think the PvE aspect of the GCW was one of the BEST THING SOE HAS DONE FOR THE GAME. The change has made the game about the GCW again and not monster hunting. PvP is not about the best tactician, it is about numbers, who has the best connection, faster HardDrive, Most players with them. If you want honest PvP find someone with an equal level as you are the same weapons stats and challange them to a 1 on 1 duel. If they decline just consider yourself the winner and walk away without calling them names.
SmithingWeapons wrote:
So your saying because the adreniline rush I get from PvP combat actually locks up my hands so I can not use them without pain for hours afterwards, I should not be able to take part in the Galatic Civil War?
- Come on people, are we going to make "personal cases" and design a game around it? I get a little dizzy in Space, should they revamp how space works because I don't find it playable?
- Just because you cannot play PvP means that everything should be redesigned because of your unique case?
I think the PvE aspect of the GCW was one of the BEST THING SOE HAS DONE FOR THE GAME.
- Great, I am glad you enjoy it. I too like it at first, till I started having to stand there doing nothing while people attack bases and kill faction NPCs.
- I guess I just sat there thinking, "Is this really better? What part of watching other kill my faction members feels like a real war?"
The change has made the game about the GCW again and not monster hunting. PvP is not about the best tactician, it is about numbers, who has the best connection, faster HardDrive, Most players with them.
- Yea, I can see this and feel the same way. The one great outcomeof the Revamp is reducing that abit by removing the UBER items.
- Unfortunitly, SoE did a really bad job with this revamp with respect to allowing Hybrids templetes (part non combant and part combat) to be viable.
- To me, Combat Level should be based soley on Skill Points (combat or non combat)
- Then let Accuracy, Speed, and Defense determine outcome. Now, If you are not Level 80 you are out of PvP and that is stupid.
- So, for what we have, I agree that the current system is fine, but they need to change a few things to make PvP more viable to everyone, not just the l33t g33ks
If you want honest PvP find someone with an equal level as you are the same weapons stats and challange them to a 1 on 1 duel. If they decline just consider yourself the winner and walk away without calling them names.
- Cute, but you know that is not practical. It would be a emtpy as me telling you that if you want PvE combat go play your playstation.
No I agree with you, the PvP base turrets should not be attackable by PvE players. once donated to a PvP base, they should have become attackable by PvP players only. But putting up PvE bases, you knew anyone at anytime could attack them before you put them up, they are part of the PvE game.
Khristen wrote:There are way too many negative associations with /citywarn, the largest being forced PvP.
It is a fallacy that /citywarn would force anyone to PvP, at least in a well-designed system. As mentioned numerous times, a simple map designation or system warning to players that a city had a hostile militia would keep anyone from being 'forced' to PvP by the simple expedient of not going to that city.
I do wish this fallacy would stop being perpetuated by Correspondents. A /citywarn system that was designed with a little intelligent foresight about the way players actually play the game instead of some abstract ivory tower concept of how they *wish* players would play could add a lot of dynamic interaction between players that the game is crying out for.
KzinKiller wrote:
Khristen wrote:
There are way too many negative associations with /citywarn, the largest being forced PvP.
It is a fallacy that /citywarn would force anyone to PvP, at least in a well-designed system. As mentioned numerous times, a simple map designation or system warning to players that a city had a hostile militia would keep anyone from being 'forced' to PvP by the simple expedient of not going to that city.
I do wish this fallacy would stop being perpetuated by Correspondents. A /citywarn system that was designed with a little intelligent foresight about the way players actually play the game instead of some abstract ivory tower concept of how they *wish* players would play could add a lot of dynamic interaction between players that the game is crying out for.
Actually every city would have that message since all militia would have that ability. So nice and friendly mercantile metropolis could be right next door to the largest PvP hub of the galaxy and both would look as ominous as the next. It does force everyone into PvP if it gets reimplemented because we live with real world concepts. When anonymity exists a*sholes abound and they will abuse this system. 'But they could get out of town in time, put it on a timer!'
And? Have you never had latency issues? Or had so many conversations in /tells, guildchat, and/or groupchat that you've missed messages that show up in your text box? People will die without a given reason and they will die often.
'Well that means they learned the hardway, just don't go to this city.' And not enjoy that content. There are cities right on top of those yellow waypoints on your map. Even beyond those, however, there is some interesting areas of this game which don't show up on the map but you have to find yourself. One of my cities on Corellia was founded at the base of a large crystal arch that really made for an interesting landscape. It wasn't a POI, didn't have it's location on the map. In fact I founded it well after PC's went live and there wasn't a singlehome in sight of the place before I put downmy own. Now it's well known and people enjoy it.
The guild that pretty much controlled the city, and took over as mayor when I left, was a good deal more PvP inclined than I am myself (prefer a good FPS match to what's in game) and they /banned a lot of imperials pretty much on sight regardless. If they had /warn they would have done that as well I'm sure. The crystal Arch wouldn't be visible to half the game population. There are 'battlegrounds' that aren't POI's. Constant spawning wars between imps and rebs, or between jawas and tuskens, etc. that are out there to be found. If I put a city next door does this mean that I own that area now? That I own the experience and faction to be gained there?
There are homes nearby the Lord Nyax camp, no reason that a town couldn't be put there and control who has access to the loot. True it's loot has gone down in quality but the fact of the matter still stands that I could prevent players from going down there and experiencing the hunt. Why do I get to cut large swaths out of the map simply because I have a player city and nuts to everyone else? You may not find it fun to simply wander the grasslands of worlds but some people do (rangers anyone? and beyond that there are people who simply enjoy knowing the nooks and crannies of their world) why do you get to restrict their access to it with forced PvP?
Oh and nihi I wanted to ask you this earlier. Since city hall is by virtue a public building and all players have access to it and the terminals inside, unless banned by the city militia, what is to prevent an outsider from paying the maintenance? If I where to create a character on your server and drop 10 million credits into your treasurey would that mean that I 'own' the land there for the next 2 months and get to tell your citizens and random visitors what to do?
PsychoticChipmunk wrote:Actually every city would have that message since all militia would have that ability. So nice and friendly mercantile metropolis could be right next door to the largest PvP hub of the galaxy and both would look as ominous as the next. It does force everyone into PvP if it gets reimplemented because we live with real world concepts. When anonymity exists a*sholes abound and they will abuse this system. 'But they could get out of town in time, put it on a timer!'
And? Have you never had latency issues? Or had so many conversations in /tells, guildchat, and/or groupchat that you've missed messages that show up in your text box? People will die without a given reason and they will die often.
'Well that means they learned the hardway, just don't go to this city.' And not enjoy that content. There are cities right on top of those yellow waypoints on your map. Even beyond those, however, there is some interesting areas of this game which don't show up on the map but you have to find yourself. One of my cities on Corellia was founded at the base of a large crystal arch that really made for an interesting landscape. It wasn't a POI, didn't have it's location on the map. In fact I founded it well after PC's went live and there wasn't a single home in sight of the place before I put down my own. Now it's well known and people enjoy it.
The guild that pretty much controlled the city, and took over as mayor when I left, was a good deal more PvP inclined than I am myself (prefer a good FPS match to what's in game) and they /banned a lot of imperials pretty much on sight regardless. If they had /warn they would have done that as well I'm sure. The crystal Arch wouldn't be visible to half the game population. There are 'battlegrounds' that aren't POI's. Constant spawning wars between imps and rebs, or between jawas and tuskens, etc. that are out there to be found. If I put a city next door does this mean that I own that area now? That I own the experience and faction to be gained there?
There are homes nearby the Lord Nyax camp, no reason that a town couldn't be put there and control who has access to the loot. True it's loot has gone down in quality but the fact of the matter still stands that I could prevent players from going down there and experiencing the hunt. Why do I get to cut large swaths out of the map simply because I have a player city and nuts to everyone else? You may not find it fun to simply wander the grasslands of worlds but some people do (rangers anyone? and beyond that there are people who simply enjoy knowing the nooks and crannies of their world) why do you get to restrict their access to it with forced PvP?
Oh and nihi I wanted to ask you this earlier. Since city hall is by virtue a public building and all players have access to it and the terminals inside, unless banned by the city militia, what is to prevent an outsider from paying the maintenance? If I where to create a character on your server and drop 10 million credits into your treasurey would that mean that I 'own' the land there for the next 2 months and get to tell your citizens and random visitors what to do?
If I gave the impression that I was talking about /citywarn being put back in exactly as it was before instead of with minor but entirely feasible modifications, then no, that's not what I meant. I meant that with a few hours of actual design work they could improve /citywarn and vastly improve City dynamics without the simple but entirely unsatisfactory solution they adopted of just throwing it out and forgetting about the entire issue.
I wouldn't have any problem with cities within X radius of a POI not having the same full set of /citywarn features that cities further than X radius would have. The POI problem is a result of a complete lack of intelligent foresight in the initial Player City design, but to just give up on Player Cities having useful features that integrate with the GCW because of this design brain-fart three years ago is not what I would call professional dev management.
RynnnDraggon wrote:
Ok, let me make this clear one last time for the People that are either not reading the entire post, or they just don't care and want to have a go at someone...
When I said this "kid" wanted to kill us...he went to another server and Threatned me with a Real Life threat...His exact words were...
****If I didn't make this clear before, my appoligise*****
"I'm going to find you and you [Edited] Husband and I'm going to cut your neck from ear to ear"...Also, As I said before, My City that I built Ground up, My Rules...
I was Protecting MY Jedi that is a Citizen in My city...whether it had been my husband or not. I have 3 Jedi's that live in my city and 2 more on the way. I will ban whomever I see causing Greif for any of my citizens, Jedi or not. If I owned my own town, I could care less who you were, Make threats, and you get kicked out.
If you want to be a BH and Hunt My Jedi, in My City, you'll need to get through me first. I don't allow it, I won't allow it.
Plain and simple.
JodoKai wrote:
RynnnDraggon wrote:
Ok, let me make this clear one last time for the People that are either not reading the entire post, or they just don't care and want to have a go at someone...
When I said this "kid" wanted to kill us...he went to another server and Threatned me with a Real Life threat...His exact words were...
****If I didn't make this clear before, my appoligise*****
"I'm going to find you and you [Edited] Husband and I'm going to cut your neck from ear to ear"...Also, As I said before, My City that I built Ground up, My Rules...
I was Protecting MY Jedi that is a Citizen in My city...whether it had been my husband or not. I have 3 Jedi's that live in my city and 2 more on the way. I will ban whomever I see causing Greif for any of my citizens, Jedi or not. If I owned my own town, I could care less who you were, Make threats, and you get kicked out.
If you want to be a BH and Hunt My Jedi, in My City, you'll need to get through me first. I don't allow it, I won't allow it.
Plain and simple.
How do you know it was a "RL" threat? He could have just contiued to RP. The fact that he didn't/doesn't know your real name where you really live and problably wouldn't do anything like this anyway, really takes the sting out of the threat don't you think?
Personally I don't care one way or the other how you play the game. YOU are the one that brought this to the forums not me. So don't get all upset with me because I think what you did was a crappy thing. If you hadn't opened your mouth, we wouldn't be having this converstaion.
josslyn wrote:
What she did was her choice... so move along. kthxbye
Really?!?! Wow, how insightful, because all this time, I thought it was my choice.
I'll tell you the same thing I told her: I'm not the one that brought this to the forum hoping people would feed my insecurites and tell me how great I am for saving my virtual (RL?) mate. If you don't want people to disagree with you, keep it to yourself, or at the very least keep it off a PUBLIC forum.
JodoKai wrote:
josslyn wrote:
What she did was her choice... so move along. kthxbye
Really?!?! Wow, how insightful, because all this time, I thought it was my choice.
I'll tell you the same thing I told her: I'm not the one that brought this to the forum hoping people would feed my insecurites and tell me how great I am for saving my virtual (RL?) mate. If you don't want people to disagree with you, keep it to yourself, or at the very least keep it off a PUBLIC forum.
rofl - you crack me up.
