Player Associations Archive
Thread: 8 Man Groups
Rothin wrote:
For the sake of discussion, discuss OTHER alternatives to group features you'd like to see to alleviate the 8 person limit. The Devs will not increase the number in a group, so rather than keep saying increase it when they will not, discuss other features you'd like to see as an alternative I can take to them as suggestions instead of getting a flat "no."
Ideas such as a Raid system to allow groups to link up and share looting rights as if they were one group, etc.. things like that.
If it turns into "We want more than 8 in a group" thread, it won't get anywhere with the devss.
I am getting sick and tired of threads disappearing. I am also pretty sick of people suggesting that we should thenjust say things SOE wants to hear. Each and every time something is said where people CONSTRUCTIVELY say they do not like something CU related, the thread 'mysteriously' vanishes. Especially when people actually speak for a larger constituency (e.g. guild leader). I have been banned without warning twice for POLITELY pointing out things players did not like about the CU. And now, once again, a thread has been deleted. What a surprise. Great going, SOE. Nice way of listening to your customers. I guess I will simply have to go post copies of everything in the gaming site forums again.
Linna
Broom wrote:
Rothin wrote:
For the sake of discussion, discuss OTHER alternatives to group features you'd like to see to alleviate the 8 person limit. The Devs will not increase the number in a group, so rather than keep saying increase it when they will not, discuss other features you'd like to see as an alternative I can take to them as suggestions instead of getting a flat "no."
Ideas such as a Raid system to allow groups to link up and share looting rights as if they were one group, etc.. things like that.
If it turns into "We want more than 8 in a group" thread, it won't get anywhere with the devss.
I am getting sick and tired of threads disappearing. I am also pretty sick of people suggesting that we should then just say things SOE wants to hear. Each and every time something is said where people CONSTRUCTIVELY say they do not like something CU related, the thread 'mysteriously' vanishes. Especially when people actually speak for a larger constituency (e.g. guild leader). I have been banned without warning twice for POLITELY pointing out things players did not like about the CU. And now, once again, a thread has been deleted. What a surprise. Great going, SOE. Nice way of listening to your customers. I guess I will simply have to go post copies of everything in the gaming site forums again.
Linna
/agree
"You can say whatever you want, so long as it's what we want to hear."
All these ney sayers need to stop coming to this section and fanning the fire to further their pre-CU crusade. Yes groups are an issue, yes we are here to discuss it, and press for some ground from the DVEs, but the game is 10 times better than it was pre-CU. Aside from the bugs, the illogical nurfs to Docs, Entertainers, and grouping, the game is a blast.
We should be concentrating on "tweaking" the post-CU SWG, not flaming the DEVs for bringing people back to playing. These are the same ney sayers you find in the galaxy forums claiming their servers are dead. The same claim is made about Starsider, but its not dead. There just isn't masses hanging out in Theed or C'net waiting for buffs. The galaxy has been evened out, with the "StrongHolds" getting more of the population, and the major cities beinf this faction or that faction, thoose who are not neutral or on leave are prefering to do buesness in 'friendly' cities, and thats how it should be, much more star warsy, and give more of a civil war atmosphere.
Grouping is a major issue, and now that the guild elections bug is gone, comes to the for front. Grouping is one of the core elements of SWG, its a multiplayer game, and even more so now that those traveling alone had better have the force with them or perish in the belly of some smelly beast. Grouping is severly brooken for many many aspects, but the DEVs should be given their due kudos at the same time we are emploring for needed 'tweakings.' The DEVs in my opinion, and in the general opinion of MEK, witch counts for 275 voices, (we recruited a good ten toons yesterday) have done a superb job, and pulled off what 75% of the forums screamed would be a desaster.
So what if we lost alot of vets who could not 'adapt', I'm sure they will go on to find a sutible game or come back. I left galaxies once apun a time, but came back for vehicles, and havn't left sence. I stuck out the wait for the CURB, and although I disagree with the marketing teqniques used to sell the CU, and the fact I would have rather been surprised on patch day than have had a month to wait for doomsday with an aweful pit feeling in my stomach, it all turned out for the better. Half of thoose who have left MEK and SWG over CU disapoint have been slowly treckling back, but all the 'newbs' we gained, and smaller guilds we absorbed due to the new necesity for community has more than made up for the temp slump in our economy. Our main mall is packed with over 20 vendors. Our leaders have had to start laying out rules for our merchants cause we are starting to get multiples of each craft. 4 SW!! In one mall, starting to undercut each other, lol, don't tell me there is a huge drop in subscriptions cause its bull.
All that said, we should continue to constructivly lead the charge for more ground on the group issue, both for space, entertainers, and general necessity. You catch more coreilean butterflies with Bantha Dung than you do with Lokian Vinegar. The DEVs have pretty much rewritten half the game, they could not possibly have anticipated all the effects and outcomes, especially without having done a proper TC session.
Vicotnik wrote:
macnider123123 wrote:
Could we at least see some kind of lvl increase for the case when you've got 8 lvl 80 characters in the group? Maybe a gradually increasing system?:
# of lvl 80's in group new group level
---------------------- ---------------
2 84
3 90
4 98
5 108
6 120
7 134
8 150
Might help a bit against those insane MOBs out there.
It worked like that for a while during CU testing (presumably before they change the old system). And it's not really a good way of doing it.Basically, a group of more than one level 80 character would have a hard time finding XP, and if someone in the group suddenly drops in the middle of a fight, so will the CL. Very baaaaad, since damage taken is governed by CL.
yup and it already in the current system has shocks on hunting missions when a person drops it resets all the missions sometimes to half what your highest level in group is.. that isnt even fixed yet.
Message Edited by GarVa on 06-17-2005 02:52 PM
EQSanctum wrote:
Vicotnik wrote:
macnider123123 wrote:
Could we at least see some kind of lvl increase for the case when you've got 8 lvl 80 characters in the group? Maybe a gradually increasing system?:
# of lvl 80's in group new group level
---------------------- ---------------
2 84
3 90
4 98
5 108
6 120
7 134
8 150
Might help a bit against those insane MOBs out there.
It worked like that for a while during CU testing (presumably before they change the old system). And it's not really a good way of doing it.Basically, a group of more than one level 80 character would have a hard time finding XP, and if someone in the group suddenly drops in the middle of a fight, so will the CL. Very baaaaad, since damage taken is governed by CL.
yup and it already in the current system has shocks on hunting missions when a person drops it resets all the missions sometimes to half what your highest level in group is.. that isnt even fixed yet.
Let's not forget about the missions that dissappear before your eyes.
Any fix planned for this?
It always took TEN players to defeat the correllian corvette missions- now, you give us only eight and make the mission harder.
This is not balance. What is being planned for this?
And therin lies the reason people are against the 8 man groups...and the lack of raids...
Right now, much of the "high end" content is unplayable because 8 man groups simply can't survive unless they have 2 or 3 Jedi in them.
I can see the reasoning behind them wanting to keep the 8 man group system, since its apparent that they tried to set the game balance against 8 man groups and changing that means they have to change all the balance again.
Unfortunately, they failed to balance the POI's to a level where an 8 man group (without Jedi) can survive. I've already mentioned a groups failed attempt at the DWB, others mention the Corvette, but I'd like to also mention the Warren before they made gray cons non-aggro. You couldn't really get past the first room, as the creatures may have only been doing 60 or so points of damage a second, but 30 of them doing that will kill you...
The current bug with multiple spawns happening on top of one another is also causing problems. Nothing like speeding across Dathomir into a large group of 30 or so Nightsister Stalkers. I always have to call my droid to get another speeder deed out of storage...
IF you balance the POI's against NORMAL 8 man groups, fine. Don't balance them with Jedi in mind, however, as you will then force normal groups out. If there is a balance problems with Jedi, fix it at the Jedi end, not at the POI end or you remove the ability of a group of normal PC's to enjoy that content.
This also goes for spawns and the like. I don't really like the idea of "elite" MOB's. If you are going to have a CL ranking system, then use it and don't add in additional complications to the system...UNLESS you accurately and totally explain the system and the reasoning behind it. If I'm CL 80, and I come against a CL 80 creature, I expect to win the battle but realize I'm going to take damage and if I screw up I could be beat. However, with the "elite" system, this is no longer the case. Why?
Is it because you want to toughen creatures yet remove the damage multiplier for CL difference for high-end players? Then just take that damage mod into account when assigning a damage range to a creature and give them an accurate CL. There are better ways to do it. It reminds me of the "up arrow" system in EQ2. A gray con with 3 up arrows would kick your butt, but you still didn't get xp for it...
Just acknowledge the balance problems and fix them...then you won't have all of this discontent. As far as entertainers, give them the ability to form "bands" separate from the grouping system. Give the entertainment elites a "band leader" skill that lets them add people to the band as they get more skill. Heck, once a band reaches a certain size, give the "band leader" conductor animations...
I'd love to see a developer response to this.
I'm starting to think that the logic of it may make them vanish in a fragrant puff of common sense.
IronHonor wrote:
I'm very impressed with your logic.
I'd love to see a developer response to this.
I'm starting to think that the logic of it may make them vanish in a fragrant puff of common sense.
Get over it IronHonor, I just got back from a ban.
Here's how it works- If you state your case logically and cordially, you'll be ignored.
If you disagree with the Dev's recomendations, you post will be deleted or "edited."
If you continue to "push the envelope," they'll out right ban you.
Fact is- None of the high end missions or parks are playable in an eight man group (jedi or not)because they, quite simply, have not made it a priority to balance the game. In fact, it appears that they are hard pressed to even get the game to work at all. Hard pill to swallow, I know, but true.
I was banned for posting a "told ya' so" post.
I'd apologize, but I meant every word of my "valued" feedback.
I never USED to be this angry. Hmmmm?
Message Edited by baxnzar on 06-20-2005 11:54 AM