Player Associations Archive

Thread: 8 Man Groups

tokeway
Thu Jun 16, 2005 2:58 pm
#40






TheCapn2000 wrote:





Rothin wrote:





ReemusDarksider wrote:





Rothin wrote:





ReemusDarksider wrote:
so whats your stance now rothin? the raids are nothing more than a chat sys, what is the point, we can create our own chat rooms already.







My stance is what it was before, to push for a full raid system in the game. I never said it'd happen over night or quickly, I said it's something we should discuss.





you said more than that, I would quote you but kinda hard sence the last four threads were deleted. You said there would be a shared loot sys, you didn't say the devs themselves said it, but you did imply it, so we are back to square one.






All I said is in most other games that's how the system worked. I never once said "This is going to happen and this is how it's going to work." I said this is how it should work and it should happen, let's discuss it. It's been discussed by the Correspondents several times and it's been discussed in this forum a few times.

All I can do is discuss, I can't dictate to the Devs what to code, when to code it, or anything else. I'm not a SOE Employee. I'm just a player of the game who volunteered my time to help communicate the desires of the players to them, to gather issues, etc.. and that's all I can do. Ths reason TH posted in this thread was because I went ahead and asked for them to raise group limits above 8 and as you saw, and as I've been saying, the answer is "Not going to happen."

Raid like chat system.. obviously not the end goal, but something they can do in the mean time to help groups coordinate. I'm going to keep discussing a full raid system, keeping ironing out a design for it, and keep pushing it hoping it will eventually be done. When will that be? Maybe never. Maybe in a few months. I don't know and can't say.

If you guys got the impression this was "going" to happen then I apologize because I didn't mean it to come off that way. I wanted us to discuss alternatives we could submit to them to consider since as you can see, the group number isn't going to go higher than 8.



You see...they should not be spending time coding something like that since the mechanics for it already exists in game...







cool that could be like a tuesday tip or something. new with RotW! create your own chat channel for raids!


/sarcasm staying on!





tokewae
ReemusDarksider
Thu Jun 16, 2005 2:59 pm
#41

lol, I didn't write that, but something similar. It is just very very fustrating that the DEVs are so disconnected with the sentiments of the community. We spend all this time complaining about the short comings, and twocamps form up. Onecamp wants the old sys back (I used to be in this one), the other wants a Raid sys (Me and Rothin). But we get neither, we get a chat function. Considering most guilds use team speak or vintrillo for communications during PvP raids, this is like offering a hungry elephant a single peanut. We don't want the old sys back, or a Raid sys implemented for communication purposes.
diff-edge
Thu Jun 16, 2005 3:08 pm
#42

Everyone was used to 20 man groups so if some one wanted to join the group it was almost always....yeah sure.


Now I personaly will send out a call for a group to hit necrosis and 11 people will say be there in 3 mins.


Ok now what we split into 2 groups and what happens one group gets the jedi and the other group is 2 guys short or they are not quality guys and aftertrying to get morehelp 45 mins later. They then try necrosis and of course they either have no or jsut one mid level jedi. They fail. The problem is that the devs made all the new high level quests so that you had to have 8 people with at least one big jedi or several ranged. If you have 4 guys that want to do something you cant on any of the new content. So i am now going for jedi as i am not an asset to a group as a triple master in melee. That is another story...






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Zilod
Thu Jun 16, 2005 3:36 pm
#43






Thunderheart wrote:




Re: 8 Man Groups




8 person groups are not going to change. We will be instituting a Raid like chat system so multiple groups can coordinate better. As soon as we have more information, we will post about it.








excuse me TH, but if you put a raid system why not just permit bigger groups as before?


it will be easyer for player to manage, more immediate, not to say will incentivate more the grouping


there are also some professions (entertainers) that are really in need of bigger groups


and will be a less thing to code.



8 players groups made sense whene group level was determided by the "sum" of the levels of characters in group, now that this mechanic was removed and the group level is determined by highest char there is no more any need to have so small groups, expecially if there will be a raid option.



pros of bigger groups vs raid


- easier to manage

- resolve some entertainers problems

- more friendly with players

- no need of min max group members

- less work coding it

Blackmoore
Thu Jun 16, 2005 4:13 pm
#44



Why? No offense but with Ventrilo and TS we got it covered I think. That would be rather chaotic I would think.





Thunderheart wrote:




Re: 8 Man Groups




8 person groups are not going to change. We will be instituting a Raid like chat system so multiple groups can coordinate better. As soon as we have more information, we will post about it.











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JonnyW
Thu Jun 16, 2005 6:34 pm
#45






GraySeven wrote:


If 8 man groups are here to stay, then there needs to be group groups...ie raids....that allow multiple groups to act as one unit, not just some chat BS. Loot, harvesting, and xp are all an issue here and need to be a part of the raid system.


Otherwise, no creature should EVER be outside the realm of defeat of an 8 man group, and all creatures should be locked whenever combat is initiated to prevent kill stealing.


No POI should be outside the realm of an 8 person group either. I remember 8 level 76+ PC's getting owned at the door of the DWB....


Oh, and by 8 man group I mean a NORMAL 8 man group, not an 8 Jedi group.....




Message Edited by GraySeven on 06-16-2005 03:50 PM




totally agree with this...if groups are not going to be increased there should not be mobs that can wipe out an 8 man group as if they were flies. Not saying to make it easy either, i love the fact the game is harder now but this is just ridiculous. A full WORKING raid system would be nice but the track record for things of that scale actually working and not breaking half the rest of the game are not to good.


Arron Akos


Saruun_Mortuus
Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:35 pm
#46

I'd really like to see a group dueling system, one group vs the other, make it so if the leaders challenge each other the entire group enters combat, that would be a lot of fun. It would open up all sorts of options, including large scale PvP to include/exclude Jedi as needed, as well as many other things...




Sar'uun Mortuus / Schnip Sandu
-IHC-

"Only what you fear can harm you. Fear nothing."

Shaizann
Thu Jun 16, 2005 8:07 pm
#47

This coming weekend will be the first full blown filmed Cantina Crawl under the 8-man group limit. I'll be helping to lead it and I'll make note of things that will/would help large scale Entertainer groups and bring them back here for Rothin's information so he can take it to the Dev-folk.



Shailas V. Zann
Elder Grand Master Entertainer



"Guess what!?! I gotta fever!....And the only prescription is more cowbell."
ssekrer
Fri Jun 17, 2005 2:59 am
#48

Thunderheart said :

>8 person groups are not going to change. We will be instituting a Raid like chat system so multiple groups can coordinate better. As soon as we have more information, we will post about it.


But in space ?

For example, in my YT with :

- me

- Copilot

- 2 weapon

- 1 or 2 mecanic


I've a 5/6 person group ! Very well. But if i want to met some friends in space i can't group with them. And for a corvette mission for example. Woah ! Not so easy...

Is there any plan to "see" a POB ship as a "one" in a group ?


I think a POB should be count of "one" in a group etheir if there a lot of people group inside.


BTW : Great, to use weapon or to be a copilot, you MUST be in the SAME groupe of the pilot... ! See the problem ? With 2 POB, impossible to group with him.
Rothin
Fri Jun 17, 2005 3:52 am
#49



Shaizann wrote:
This coming weekend will be the first full blown filmed Cantina Crawl under the 8-man group limit. I'll be helping to lead it and I'll make note of things that will/would help large scale Entertainer groups and bring them back here for Rothin's information so he can take it to the Dev-folk.





Look forward to it.



Rothin Skyshrine

Retired Galactic Senator
Former Player Association Correspondent
"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both."

Glip_G
Fri Jun 17, 2005 4:48 am
#50






KyleKnox wrote:





Thunderheart wrote:




Re: 8 Man Groups




8 person groups are not going to change. We will be instituting a Raid like chat system so multiple groups can coordinate better. As soon as we have more information, we will post about it.






A full raid system would be nice (WoW ripoff).




Try again. EverQuest had a fully working Raid System while World of Warcraft was nothing more then a glimmer in a programmers eye. I hardly think SOE is ripping off SOE.
Demio_Olaron
Fri Jun 17, 2005 5:28 am
#51

Small question...

What would be the difference between two 8 man groups in a raid or one 16 man group, besides the complication in the programming?

Why do the devs tend to overcomplicate stuff? Wouldn't it be MUCH more simple if they just allowed 20 man groups, rather than making an overcomplicated system to glue groups together as if they were one big group that would bring even more bugs into the game?

Really, tell me the big difference between a raiding party and a big single group besides the complication in the programming...



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Lantus
Fri Jun 17, 2005 5:51 am
#52

A raid system matters to entertainers... how? I'm not gonna do my Chicken Little impression here, but the past few months have been one nerf after another to the functionality of entertainers. I'm gonna put my foot down and say *my* community WANTS the 8 person group increased, preferably back to the 20 we came to count on - not for the exp bonuses, but for the performance aspects. There are ten instruments available to entertainers and musicians (Slitherhorn, fizzz, fanfar, kloo horn, traz, chidinlaku horn, bandfill, ommni box, nalargon, mandoviol). Which two would YOU get rid of in your 8-person group? It doesn't matter that eight of those only represent three sounds (Bandfill and ommnibox = same sound. Slitherhorn, fanfar, and traz = same sound. Fizzz, kloo horn, chidinkalu horn = same sound.) What matters is that as entertainers we can't form a full and complete band with this current group system.

I look forward to the assinine "cantina crawl raid system" to be implemented in the future. Honest :/




Rankin Bass - Master Musician since August '03 and WILL NEVER DROP.
Lantus Truite - Elder Bio-Engineer, Structures Trader.
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