Player Associations Archive

• Ifthis structure isbound to guild leaders, they could potentially add a special and exclusive building which will replace the current in fact »mall building«. So only guilds (leaders) own a true guild hall.
  


• If they force guild leaders to own a specific structure, they might change the rules in this particular case. So they could lower the lot requirementslater.

I just hope both will happen with the next publishes they are currently working on behind the scenes.

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Rothin wrote:
Guild halls were meant to be used for guilds only and not homes, so I completely understand the reason for requiring a leader to own it and not someone else. The problem is that the game has allowed it for over a year and a half and it's going to have a big adjustment cycle. I think the cost is well worth it though.

My biggest concern isn't with a guild leader needing to own it, it's the process of aquiring it that concerns me. If a guild leader can pick any guild hall that a guild member owns and it becomes theres, then we have a huge issue. I'm hoping that isn't the case. Unfortunately, I have no way to test this on TC, no guild hall or guild that I control there to test it. Hopefully the TC community can get that tested for me.

I know once it goes live, I will be testing the thing like crazy with my guild to find its in and outs and write a new guide for our community on the process.

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I'm hoping we get some clarification. I have a character on TC and will be willing to help test this out, but I would like to know before it goes live if a leader can take control of my hall, yes I use it as my house I hate the large tatooine houses, and all of my stuff.

If it is only the hall that the leader has, then this would be a goodway to approach this.

• Renamecurrent guild hall deedsto something else.. Like "A Great Hall"


• Removeguild terminals from "Grand Halls"

• Issue guild leaders a new kind of deed that uses 0 lots .... Call these "Guild halls"


• These new guild halls canissue deeds for aditionalhalls forevery 25 members the guild has


• Make these new PA deeds non-transferable


• Create an NPC that sells ONE deed to persons not in a PA


• If you have a Deed when you join a guild you can return it to any NPC for a refund

Message Edited by --Qilue-UCW-- on 03-16-2005 01:16 PM

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--Qilue-UCW-- wrote:

How about this..

• Renamecurrent guild hall deedsto something else.. Like "A Great Hall"


• Removeguild terminals from "Grand Halls"

• Issue guild leaders a new kind of deed that uses 0 lots .... Call these "Guild halls"


• These new guild halls canissue deeds for aditionalhalls forevery 25 members the guild has


• Make these new PA deeds non-transferable


• Create an NPC that sells ONE deed to persons not in a PA


• If you have a Deed when you join a guild you can return it to any NPC for a refund

Message Edited by --Qilue-UCW-- on 03-16-2005 01:16 PM

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I like the idea, but make them craftable to help out Architects.

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Jutewr wrote:

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--Qilue-UCW-- wrote:

How about this..

• Rename current guild hall deeds to something else.. Like "A Great Hall"
• Remove guild terminals from "Grand Halls"

• Issue guild leaders a new kind of deed that uses 0 lots .... Call these "Guild halls"
• These new guild halls can issue deeds for aditional halls for every 25 members the guild has
• Make these new PA deeds non-transferable
• Create an NPC that sells ONE deed to persons not in a PA
• If you have a Deed when you join a guild you can return it to any NPC for a refund

Message Edited by --Qilue-UCW-- on 03-16-2005 01:16 PM

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I like the idea, but make them craftable to help out Architects.

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This is very similiar to what I asked for and it didn't happen. I asked for it again though but will probably have the same outcome. This is what I asked for so everyone can see it:

Each guild may own one guild hall. ONLY Guild leaders may own the hall.
The "Guild" Hall will cost 0 lots as with City Halls. It will automatically transfer between leaders when the leadership changes.
You must be guild-less to place a hall. Once placed, a guild *must* be created within 24 hours. One exception would be that Guild Leaders could place a new Hall if they chose, but at the full 5 lot cost associated with it so guilds could use multiple locations.
Already placed Guild Halls will be grandfathered in. (To prevent a lot of grief on the behalf of players who currently own them. No new ones could be placed thereafter without the above rules.)
Remove the ability to /transferstructure from guild halls unless the receiving player is the guild leader.
For guilds / guild leaders who do not own a hall, they may either place one or have one transfered to them. They can't "Claim" a hall of their choosing without the consent of the owner. (Prevents an exploit)
Any "Extra" Guild Halls placed will cost the normal 5 lots and must still be owned by the Guild Leader only.

Effects on the Current system

When the system is put into place, the leader must "choose" or designate a PA Hall to be the true Hall for the guild and be converted to 0 lots. This process can be done by /transferstructure to the PA Leader, the leader placing a Hall (When he currently has none placed, as this only applies to ONE PA Hall), or perhaps by a option on the structure control panel that must be agreed upon by the leader and the owner (For the leaders who don't have enough lots to have it transferred to them or place a new one.).

This would the solve multiple hall issue and allow a method for controlling and preventing problems with Guild Hall transfers due to inactive leaders since the hall isn't technically bound to an individual, but to the guild itself with the vision of Guild Halls in mind.

Now... with this system in place, we are going to see some people try to gain free storage out of this so I propose the following to prevent exploitation!

If you attempt to create a PA but do not get enough members in the week to sustain it, at the end of that week when the PA is disbanded, if the person who started the guild does NOT have enough lots to cover the Guild Hall (Since it'd return from 0 to 5) the Hall itself and all items will be moved to the owners bank. (Overloading the bank so that no new items could be placed in it until they take enough items out of it to drop it below the 100 item limit and they would be unable to try placing a guild hall again until their bank was at 100 items or below to prevent people from doing this on purpose)


The bolded section is probably the most vital to make sure this is well recieved and doesn't cause a huge amount of problems for guilds across the board.

My city (Veteran's Retreat on Lok) are all Tatooine Guild Halls for residences of all citizens (shops vary from small to guild halls). How does this affect us?

It won't effect current owners of guild halls. They will still own the halls, but the leader of the guild will need to own at least one hall in the guild if they currentlty do not.


We have many guilds within the city, (my guild leader is a citizen) so we have about half a dozen members of my guild inside this city all with PA Halls plus we have our official PA Hall on Naboo.

If I become the member, is anything transferred since I already own a PA Hall?
No, it shouldn't effect you at all.

Will it hinder future PA Halls from being placed?
No, future halls can still be placed but if you are in a guild they will bind to that guild meaning that the hall would have to be re-deeded in the future to remove its afilliation with the previous guild.

Will it hinder multiple PA Halls for one guild being placed?
This is something that needs to be tested. While guilds can still have multiple halls, they may not be able to use the extra guild terminals unless the leader themselves own them. This is a gray area at the moment.

Will this kill my city?
Shouldn't effect your city very much.

My post above this was suggestions for how to approach these changes better, not how it's being done.

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Rothin wrote:


This is very similiar to what I asked for and it didn't happen. I asked for it again though but will probably have the same outcome. This is what I asked for so everyone can see it:

Each guild may own one guild hall. ONLY Guild leaders may own the hall.
The "Guild" Hall will cost 0 lots as with City Halls. It will automatically transfer between leaders when the leadership changes.
You must be guild-less to place a hall. Once placed, a guild *must* be created within 24 hours. One exception would be that Guild Leaders could place a new Hall if they chose, but at the full 5 lot cost associated with it so guilds could use multiple locations.
Already placed Guild Halls will be grandfathered in. (To prevent a lot of grief on the behalf of players who currently own them. No new ones could be placed thereafter without the above rules.)
Remove the ability to /transferstructure from guild halls unless the receiving player is the guild leader.
For guilds / guild leaders who do not own a hall, they may either place one or have one transfered to them. They can't "Claim" a hall of their choosing without the consent of the owner. (Prevents an exploit)
Any "Extra" Guild Halls placed will cost the normal 5 lots and must still be owned by the Guild Leader only.

Effects on the Current system

When the system is put into place, the leader must "choose" or designate a PA Hall to be the true Hall for the guild and be converted to 0 lots. This process can be done by /transferstructure to the PA Leader, the leader placing a Hall (When he currently has none placed, as this only applies to ONE PA Hall), or perhaps by a option on the structure control panel that must be agreed upon by the leader and the owner (For the leaders who don't have enough lots to have it transferred to them or place a new one.).

This would the solve multiple hall issue and allow a method for controlling and preventing problems with Guild Hall transfers due to inactive leaders since the hall isn't technically bound to an individual, but to the guild itself with the vision of Guild Halls in mind.

Now... with this system in place, we are going to see some people try to gain free storage out of this so I propose the following to prevent exploitation!

If you attempt to create a PA but do not get enough members in the week to sustain it, at the end of that week when the PA is disbanded, if the person who started the guild does NOT have enough lots to cover the Guild Hall (Since it'd return from 0 to 5) the Hall itself and all items will be moved to the owners bank. (Overloading the bank so that no new items could be placed in it until they take enough items out of it to drop it below the 100 item limit and they would be unable to try placing a guild hall again until their bank was at 100 items or below to prevent people from doing this on purpose)


The bolded section is probably the most vital to make sure this is well recieved and doesn't cause a huge amount of problems for guilds across the board.

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First off, Rothin, allow me to thank you for putting pressure to solve the "lost guild leader" problem. This was a serious problem for many guilds. My own guild recently had to deal with this problem, and the current "allegience" system just simply didn't work as intended. It needed changing, and I am happy to see it is changing.

I agree with you that in the current system, suddenly combining guild leadership with ownership is likely to create some huge problems:

1. Current guild halls are at present the ONLY building suitable for large shopping malls. Medium houses make decent smaller malls, and large houses are designed as houses, and are completely unsuitable for this purpose. This problem doubles for guilds whose primary purpose is crafting and selling items, for whom a shopping mall is an entirely appropriate purpose for a guild hall, since it is the purpose for the guild itself.

2. Crafting professions already have a terrible lot space squeeze. Forcing a 5-lot ownership onto any guild leader essentially eliminates crafters for contention for guild leadership.

3. Crafting guilds (like my own) are particularly hard hit by lot space requirements of guild halls. In our case, a player had to create and pay for an alt JUST TO CREATE LOT SPACES FOR A GUILD HALL. In the new system, in our guild, only one person would qualify for guild leadership, since he is the only one with enough lot spaces. Tying the lot spaces to the guild leadership means the person with the lots holds the power. To paraphrase Monte Python, "this is in my opionion no basis for a form of government."

4. There is still no provision for committee-run guilds (again, like my own.)

5. How will this work for large associations with several guild halls as representation on different planets? How will three guild halls revert to one person? Guild halls serve many guild purposes: Meeting places, training centers, crafting station locations for guild crafting, exchange of items with guild members, storage of guild-owned harvesters, armories, refuges (particularly for special forces players).

6. Currently any guild member placing a guild hall automatically has the guild hall revert to control of the guild itself. The player still owns the property, but the guild assigned to the hall is the player's guild. What will happen in the future when a non-leader member places a guild hall? Again, this relates closely to number 5. How about guilds in which several guild members currently own shopping malls? One person can't free up enough lot spaces for all the guild halls.

I like your solution to these problems with zero lot space guild halls. Since there is no competition for guild halls, the way there is for city privileges,I'd allow longer than24 hours to get it together. Personally, I'd allow a LOT longer--a week--to allow for casual player members to join the guild. Perhaps the total number of allowed guild halls could be tied directly to the number of guild members--say a maximum of one per 15-20 members. Another possibility might be that the first hall count for zero lots and be associated with guild leadership and all subsequent halls be available for anyone in the guild to own, but still cost 5 lot spaces.

This almost requires a dedicated "guild hall" building separate from the current "great hall" type building.

Another thought is to have some method of in-house selling or in-guild exchange...say guild-only vendors. Vendors placed in guild halls might automatically be limited to guild members, or items placed in one specific location in the guild hall (say, the lowest floor) might be retrievable by all guild members. Or perhaps have a storage chest that can have permissions set that override building permissions. I don't know a good way to implement this, but while it is essential not to have any new guild member have the privilege of cleaning out the guild hall of all its paintings and crystals, it is also helpful to have a guild exchange for communal property and guild-owned crafting stations that all guild members can use. As you well know, crafting/merchant guilds represent a sizeable portion of guilds overall, and crafting cooperation requires communal use of stations, resources,and harvesters.

I don't see an easy fix that doesn't require a bit of coding. I would love to see both a dedicated guild hall building and a dedicated shopping mall building, but if guild leadership and the guild halls are tied to one player, then both types of buildings are needed.

Again, Rothin, I want to thank you for your work in campaigning for a fix to the absentee leader problem. This is a step in the right direction, but like all good progress, there are some associated issues that will need some attention. Please do your best to make sure the developers realize the lot space issues.

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Rothin wrote:
My city (Veteran's Retreat on Lok) are all Tatooine Guild Halls for residences of all citizens (shops vary from small to guild halls). How does this affect us?

It won't effect current owners of guild halls. They will still own the halls, but the leader of the guild will need to own at least one hall in the guild if they currentlty do not.


We have many guilds within the city, (my guild leader is a citizen) so we have about half a dozen members of my guild inside this city all with PA Halls plus we have our official PA Hall on Naboo.

If I become the member, is anything transferred since I already own a PA Hall?
No, it shouldn't effect you at all.

Will it hinder future PA Halls from being placed?
No, future halls can still be placed but if you are in a guild they will bind to that guild meaning that the hall would have to be re-deeded in the future to remove its afilliation with the previous guild.

Will it hinder multiple PA Halls for one guild being placed?
This is something that needs to be tested. While guilds can still have multiple halls, they may not be able to use the extra guild terminals unless the leader themselves own them. This is a gray area at the moment.

Will this kill my city?
Shouldn't effect your city very much.

My post above this was suggestions for how to approach these changes better, not how it's being done.

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