CUEmu - Thread Posts

Rothin

Thu Mar 17, 2005 10:01 am

Geevo wrote:

Thank you for the quick response

My pleasure!

Hylidex, I'll reply to your questions here in a little while when I'm off work.

Rothin Skyshrine

Retired Galactic Senator
Former Player Association Correspondent
"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both."

Rothin

Thu Mar 17, 2005 4:33 pm

#54

I like your solution to these problems with zero lot space guild halls. Since there is no competition for guild halls, the way there is for city privileges, I'd allow longer than 24 hours to get it together. Personally, I'd allow a LOT longer--a week--to allow for casual player members to join the guild. Perhaps the total number of allowed guild halls could be tied directly to the number of guild members--say a maximum of one per 15-20 members. Another possibility might be that the first hall count for zero lots and be associated with guild leadership and all subsequent halls be available for anyone in the guild to own, but still cost 5 lot spaces.

What I proposed above was that you would need to create the guild within 24 hours of placing the hall, not recruit the initial 5 people in that period. You would still receive the entire full week to do that as it is now.

As for the other concerns.. guilds aren't/weren't meant to be used as Malls or homes. They were meant to be a meeting place for the guild that owns it, while some may use them as malls, that isn't what the vision for Guild Halls were. I do however agree that guild halls make the best shops, etc.. but that's really an architect issue for better structures for malls and shops more so than a guild issue.

Guild halls are meant to be owned by the guild and I completely agree with the Devs on that. However, there should be more structures available for the other reasons people use guild halls currently, but that is something that needs to be taken to the Architect Correspondent or perhaps even the Merchant Correspondent for those to happen.

The lot issue is the biggest concern I have at the moment, other than that nothing is really changing as far as owning a guild hall at this point. People can still place them, use them for malls, and everything else just like they do now. With the new system though guilds who use multiple halls for recruiting will NOT be able to do that any longer as the guild would only have access to a maximum of 2 guild terminals and that's only if the guild leader claims two halls and uses all 10 of their lots. You can still place guild halls for whatever other purposes you'd like to use them for currently, you just can't recruit or administer the guild from them.

Rothin Skyshrine

Retired Galactic Senator
Former Player Association Correspondent
"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both."

Jutewr

Thu Mar 17, 2005 4:43 pm

#55

Rothin wrote:

Guild halls are meant to be owned by the guild and I completely agree with the Devs on that. However, there should be more structures available for the other reasons people use guild halls currently, but that is something that needs to be taken to the Architect Correspondent or perhaps even the Merchant Correspondent for those to happen.

The lot issue is the biggest concern I have at the moment, other than that nothing is really changing as far as owning a guild hall at this point. People can still place them, use them for malls, and everything else just like they do now. With the new system though guilds who use multiple halls for recruiting will NOT be able to do that any longer as the guild would only have access to a maximum of 2 guild terminals and that's only if the guild leader claims two halls and uses all 10 of their lots. You can still place guild halls for whatever other purposes you'd like to use them for currently, you just can't recruit or administer the guild from them.

First, I agree with what you said in the first paragraph. I'm fine with not being able to place a guild hall as long as they create some sort of replacement for it. (Perhaps even a mall structure, as has been proposed in the Merchant forums.)

The second paragraph raised a new question for me. I am the mayor of our guild's second city. I placed a guild hall there, partly to serve as my mall and partly to be able to add new players to our guild from there. Now say that for whatever reason, my guild leader and I have a falling out, but I remain in the guild. Can he come along and claim my guild hall, and steal all of the items in it? I am sort of concerned about the possibility of arbitrarily losing my guild hall. Perhaps the owner should have to give consent before the guild leader can take the guild hall.

Mira Luka - Master Tailor & Dancer
Former Mayor of Desert City, Lok and Former Desert Rogues Guild Elder
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Rothin

Thu Mar 17, 2005 4:47 pm

#56

Jutewr wrote:

Rothin wrote:

Guild halls are meant to be owned by the guild and I completely agree with the Devs on that. However, there should be more structures available for the other reasons people use guild halls currently, but that is something that needs to be taken to the Architect Correspondent or perhaps even the Merchant Correspondent for those to happen.

The lot issue is the biggest concern I have at the moment, other than that nothing is really changing as far as owning a guild hall at this point. People can still place them, use them for malls, and everything else just like they do now. With the new system though guilds who use multiple halls for recruiting will NOT be able to do that any longer as the guild would only have access to a maximum of 2 guild terminals and that's only if the guild leader claims two halls and uses all 10 of their lots. You can still place guild halls for whatever other purposes you'd like to use them for currently, you just can't recruit or administer the guild from them.
First, I agree with what you said in the first paragraph. I'm fine with not being able to place a guild hall as long as they create some sort of replacement for it. (Perhaps even a mall structure, as has been proposed in the Merchant forums.)
The second paragraph raised a new question for me. I am the mayor of our guild's second city. I placed a guild hall there, partly to serve as my mall and partly to be able to add new players to our guild from there. Now say that for whatever reason, my guild leader and I have a falling out, but I remain in the guild. Can he come along and claim my guild hall, and steal all of the items in it? I am sort of concerned about the possibility of arbitrarily losing my guild hall. Perhaps the owner should have to give consent before the guild leader can take the guild hall.

Currently I'm not sure how it works since I can't test things like that on TC since I'm not set up properly to do it (couldn't even find a Guild Hall to buy on TC to even make a guild). So I really can't answer that part of it as far as him claiming the hall goes, though I believe right now that it *is* allowed, which is one of my MAJOR concerns. That's one reason I really want to test it but am unable to.

As for the second part, I completely agree that the owner should have to give consent before they could claim it. I've pushed it and pushed it to try to get clarification on how that process works and to make sure people can't just walk up and take your hall just because they lead your guild. Only testing will tell us for sure and if it is that way, I'll continue to push for it to be changed as well.

Rothin Skyshrine

Retired Galactic Senator
Former Player Association Correspondent
"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both."

Hylidex

Fri Mar 18, 2005 6:35 am

#57

Rothin wrote:
Guild halls are meant to be owned by the guild and I completely agree with the Devs on that. However, there should be more structures available for the other reasons people use guild halls currently, but that is something that needs to be taken to the Architect Correspondent or perhaps even the Merchant Correspondent for those to happen.

Again, 100% agreement on the idea of zero-space dedicated guild halls. Thank you for the clarification on the 24 hour restriction.Knowing thatall you meant was just a time limit for establishing the guild affiliation of the hall, 24 hours sounds great. In fact, I would have assumed that in most cases the affiliation would automatically go to the guild of the person placing the hall the way it does now, so that would only matter for the formation of new guilds.

I would agree--24 hours to activate the terminal. 24 hours from the denial of guild name to reactivate it--ie. an extension if the guild name is found invalid. An immediate warning if the number of guild members is not sufficient to maintain a guild--whether while forming the guild or after a guild member withdraws, leaving the guild at less than critical mass. At least seven days from the warning to accumulate the minimum number of guild members.

I hate to spend the rest of this message on one area in which we may have differing views, considering that I agree with nearly all of what you have written, and I am still VERY glad that there is a change in the method of transfer of guild leadership. I still feel your gentle pressure had a lot to do with bringing about that much-needed change. However, this is the closest thing to a focus thread we have on the issue, and I would like to take a closer look at the guild hall vs. shopping mall issue. This isn't so much from a personal point of view as an overall game play perspective.

One of my first experiences in SWG after mastering my first profession was a nerf of my principle customer. (I mastered Bio-engineer, and the CH nerf drove a wedge between bio-engineers and creature handlers that has still not healed. Some creature handlers STILL--after more than a year--refuse to use BE pets on general principles as a result. This is much like a combat nerf creating such hard feelings that many combatants refused to use any weapon made by a weaponsmith. The resulting feelings were seriously game-damaging.) Following that, I've always held to the principle of viable alternatives rather than nerfs. Iflarge numbers of players areusing an in-game object in a way that is different from the intended use, it demonstrates a need within the game that should be addressed. The solution is not to create a rule that prevents the use, but to provide an alternative that prevents the players from needing to use the object in any unorthodox manner.

I proposed dedicated shopping malls on the architect forum many months ago and was one-starred and told that such a thing was completely unnecessary because we already have guild halls. Honestly, houses make terrible locations for vendors. They are made to be residences. Vendor tents are okay for a handful of vendors, but not a whole guild's collection. Guild halls are the only other player structure in which a vendor can be placed. Personally, I would hold to theprinciple of providing an alternative before putting up the limitation. Between the guild hall change and the GWS making it unnecessary to have more than a single mechanical vendor by the door, I think we may be seeing the beginning of the end of shopping malls. I hate to see this, since it is, by one perspective, player-driven content. Additionally, probably more player hours are spent in guild halls used as shopping malls than in guild halls doing dedicated guild activities. I don't know how that could accurately be measured, however, since many guilds, such as my own, are crafting/merchant guilds. The mall activities and the guild activities are one and the same for us. Many times, we have had informal guild meetings while people are stocking their vendors. The back room contains our guild-use high-level crafting stations and crafting tools, as well as guild-shared harvester storage. The basement in the past has been our guild exchange, although lately it has moved to backpacks in the back room.

However, I think there can be a *temporary* workaround that requires only a minimum of coding. In my mind, it is NOT ideal, but it might work. If the art department doesn't have a new building ready to drop, then perhaps make the dedicated guild halls have guild control terminals and "great halls" have them removed. The flags could be airbrushed away from the front or have different flags for guild halls than for great halls.

The guild hall building is MUCH better suited for meetings, armories, and item storage than it is as a shopping mall. The problem is that it is the only building in the game suitable for a large shopping mall at this time.

So I suppose my only concernswith respect to the new limitations on guild hall use are the transition and eventual solution to commercial needs, not in the principle of using guild halls for guild activities alone. I like the principle and hope we work toward it. I just don't want to see adherance to the principle resulting in the destruction of another large-scale game activity.

Hylidex Lightstrider
AFS Outfitters, League of all Factions and Species (LAFS)
-6600, 4440, Theed, Naboo, Gorath

Ratel

Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:53 pm

#58

Any idea what happens to guild halls that belong to people who are no longer members of the guild?

--
Cheers,

Ratel

Rothin

Sat Mar 19, 2005 1:01 am

#59

Ratel wrote:

Any idea what happens to guild halls that belong to people who are no longer members of the guild?

Nothing should happen to it. Should continue as it does now.

Rothin Skyshrine

Retired Galactic Senator
Former Player Association Correspondent
"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both."

Ratel

Sat Mar 19, 2005 1:07 am

#60

Rothin wrote:

Ratel wrote:

Any idea what happens to guild halls that belong to people who are no longer members of the guild?

Nothing should happen to it. Should continue as it does now.

Ta very much.

I wont explain why I asked, it's embarrasing.

--
Cheers,

Ratel

Rothin

Sat Mar 19, 2005 1:13 am

#61

Ratel wrote:

Rothin wrote:

Ratel wrote:

Any idea what happens to guild halls that belong to people who are no longer members of the guild?

Nothing should happen to it. Should continue as it does now.

Ta very much.

I wont explain why I asked, it's embarrasing.

lol, no need to explain.

Rothin Skyshrine

Retired Galactic Senator
Former Player Association Correspondent
"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both."

Ham-Jo

Sun Mar 20, 2005 9:13 am

#62

Hey Rothin,

Is the Zero-Lot space an idea you ahve brought up to the Devs?

Im kinda lost in the thread now lol.

ham-jo
master of all that is nWo . master politician
proud founder of the new world order
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.

Rothin

Sun Mar 20, 2005 9:14 am

#63

Ham-Jo wrote:
Hey Rothin,

Is the Zero-Lot space an idea you ahve brought up to the Devs?

Im kinda lost in the thread now lol.

Yes, I've brought it up many many times and will continue it each time I get the chance.

Rothin Skyshrine

Retired Galactic Senator
Former Player Association Correspondent
"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both."

Ham-Jo

Sun Mar 20, 2005 9:56 am

#64

Thanks Rothin!

ham-jo
master of all that is nWo . master politician
proud founder of the new world order
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.

Snigo

Mon Mar 21, 2005 2:33 pm

#65

One question I haven't seen addressed yet and should be tested is what happens to guildhalls that contain vendors?

Currently any building containing vendors cannot be transfered.

Does the new guildleader transfer override this or is this going to cause a problem of guildhalls not being able to be transferred?

I also have to agree that requiring the guildleader to maintain the guildhall is not a good idea. Lots are very important to many players and to penalize a guild leader by tying up half of his lots with a building that he's technically not supposed to use as his own is ridiculous. Guilds are all about working together, so if the best person to be guildleader does not have the lots free it makes sense to let someone who does not need their lots maintain the hall. Our guildhall is essentially only used to add new members. Although a few people put a lot of effort into decorating it we rarely gather there, since we're usually out doing other things and if we gather in town it's usually in the cantina with our entertainer or outside in the city square as people come and go. We socialize mainly through guildchat or in smaller groups out doing things together.

Making the guildhall work like a city hall that costs 0 lots and transfers to the new guildleader is a good idea, just remember that the current mayor is the only person with admin rights to the city hall. So for guilds that use their guildhalls as a co-op for sharing resources or items this would no longer be possible. Of course this is already difficult for large guilds since we're limited to 50 people on the admiin list ofany house and this is already causing headaches in my own guild as I run our co-op which is not in our guildhall.

Just a few thoughts to add to the list.

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