Player Associations Archive

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atytula wrote:

I have only played 2 other MMO before SWG and I am now starting on WoW (don't worry, I am with SWG for a few years yet), and I have seen older guild systems better then this one. When I played Asheron's Call, they had a hierchial (SP?) guild where you declare alliegience to someone and they do the same and the person at the top is the leader. You could only have 10 people declared to you. Kind of an Amway deal. It gave an interesting perspective to guilds. I also played Earth and Beyond. When I left that game (to come to SWG) they had a ranking system (10 ranks), a whos online feature, an easy way to change leadership (the leader at the top would promote someone to his position and he would get demoted, if the leader does not log in for 1 month, someone from the rank below is declared leader automatically).

So, I agree that the guild system in SWG has some unique abilities (like having a guild hall) but some of the basics that we have been asking for have been done in an MMO before SWG was even released.

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One thing you have to look at as well is that while some of these features were out there, they weren't the standard systems and some of the games you've mentioned above as well also no longer exist as an MMO. Everything considered a 'standard' guild feature in an MMO was released when SWG was, and SWG even added to it. Now, I agree that a LOT more could have been done before release in respect to guilds and an entirely better system could have been built. At the same time.. if they tried to design the perfect system or match features from every other game, SWG would never be released and always in development.

With that said, we do need a upgrade soon to stay competitive and even surpass the competition because I know we can do it and we will. We are very much missing what are now being considered standard features because we're falling behind the times, but when it is our time to shine, we'll move that line further than any other MMO and set a new standard ourselves.

The Permissions/Titles system is limiting and unmanageable

• Change the title filter so that it no longer uses the character name filter, it keeps us from using even the simplest titles like “officer” as well as most military titles. Instead, use the profanity filter so that the actual titles like Officer, Private, Captain, etc… become available to guilds.
  
• Show guild titles on the /examine window.
  
• Implement a ranks system of applying permissions: GUILD Leader assigns 10 different ranks, each with a title and array of permissions. Members can then be promoted or demoted to the proper rank. One of these permissions will be reserved for the default rank and permissions array that new members get.
  
• Add the permission to promote and demote members on the above rank spectrum.
  
• Add a new “Council” permission in which the leader can delegate full permission setting abilities to other members. To prevent exploitation, the Council permission would not allow a person to alter the true guild leader’s permissions.

This is why I came to this thread, to talk about the title/permission system. It looks great so far, I like the suggestions; I would also like to add a few of my own. Concerning the rank system first: This is a good idea, but I think it needs to go deeper than that. The ranks should not only be military ranks, but also commerce ranks and squadron ranks, etc, according to the type of guild wanted. Also, you should be able to mix and match these ranks if need be. Military ranks should be able to declare war, promote/demote subordinate officers, etc. Commerce ranks are a bit trickier for me, but I'm sure someone could think of some permissions for the ranks. A squadron guild would consist of asquadron leader, and various wing leaders, which are comprised of wingmen. Certain officers should have the ability to add/remove people from their wings(if wing leaders), and modify/add/remove wing leaders; as well as the higher-up managing of the guild(if squadron leader). These are just a few suggestions, and other people can build/modify them if they feel it necessary.

The Council idea is fantastic. When I first started a guild, I wanted to be a co-leader, but the placer of the hall is always the leader, so I felt left out. A Council would definitely be a wonderful addition to the game.

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Noghrilover wrote:

The Permissions/Titles system is limiting and unmanageable

• Change the title filter so that it no longer uses the character name filter, it keeps us from using even the simplest titles like “officer” as well as most military titles. Instead, use the profanity filter so that the actual titles like Officer, Private, Captain, etc… become available to guilds.
• Show guild titles on the /examine window.
• Implement a ranks system of applying permissions: GUILD Leader assigns 10 different ranks, each with a title and array of permissions. Members can then be promoted or demoted to the proper rank. One of these permissions will be reserved for the default rank and permissions array that new members get.
• Add the permission to promote and demote members on the above rank spectrum.
• Add a new “Council” permission in which the leader can delegate full permission setting abilities to other members. To prevent exploitation, the Council permission would not allow a person to alter the true guild leader’s permissions.

This is why I came to this thread, to talk about the title/permission system. It looks great so far, I like the suggestions; I would also like to add a few of my own. Concerning the rank system first: This is a good idea, but I think it needs to go deeper than that. The ranks should not only be military ranks, but also commerce ranks and squadron ranks, etc, according to the type of guild wanted. Also, you should be able to mix and match these ranks if need be. Military ranks should be able to declare war, promote/demote subordinate officers, etc. Commerce ranks are a bit trickier for me, but I'm sure someone could think of some permissions for the ranks. A squadron guild would consist of a squadron leader, and various wing leaders, which are comprised of wingmen. Certain officers should have the ability to add/remove people from their wings(if wing leaders), and modify/add/remove wing leaders; as well as the higher-up managing of the guild(if squadron leader). These are just a few suggestions, and other people can build/modify them if they feel it necessary.

The Council idea is fantastic. When I first started a guild, I wanted to be a co-leader, but the placer of the hall is always the leader, so I felt left out. A Council would definitely be a wonderful addition to the game.

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I started typing my own wish list to post, but it seems you hit all of them right here.. this is great. Hope the Devs pay attention to these ideas.

This stuff was all in my original plan for my wish list. Funny how close I was to yours with out even reading any of them. These things are SERIOUSLY needed.

Below the quote is things I would like added to the wish list.

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Rothin wrote:

Guild Management Tools

• The member list should have sorting methods available. They should include alphabetically, time in guild, and title. Please consider additional sorting options as well.


• /guildremove needs a confirmation box - leaders accidentally quit due to invalid target issues, causing havoc for guilds.


• /guildremove (target) should remove target member from the guild if the person has the proper permissions. (This should have a confirmation box.)


• /makeguildleader should be added as a new way for a leader of a guild to transfer leadership to another member. To prevent the ability to circumvent the allegiance process, this command should only be useable once every 10 days.


• Add guild chat to spatial tab by default.


• MOTD: Message of the Day, a system message all guild members see on logging in (can include color). Guild email is great, but it can’t act as a constant reminder of important information.


• Guild tab in the Community Window (CTRL+P menu) with all members and as much member info as possible. Other games include info like last online time, current title, planet, join date, etc... This tab should also have the MOTD on it.


• Officer Chat – A chat channel that all people with a new officer permission in the guild would be automatically added to, much like guild chat.


• Add error message for why a guild name /abbreviation change doesn’t go through.


• Guild Management Terminal GUI needs a revamp.




• Allow the setting of all permissions / titles for one member on a single page.


• Allow the setting of all permissions for guild or a title on a single page.

The Permissions/Titles system is limiting and unmanageable

• Change the title filter so that it no longer uses the character name filter, it keeps us from using even the simplest titles like “officer” as well as most military titles. Instead, use the profanity filter so that the actual titles like Officer, Private, Captain, etc… become available to guilds.


• Show guild titles on the /examine window.


• Implement a ranks system of applying permissions: GUILD Leader assigns 10 different ranks, each with a title and array of permissions. Members can then be promoted or demoted to the proper rank. One of these permissions will be reserved for the default rank and permissions array that new members get. (I had this listed as Groups but same Idea, permissions would all be assigned at the group level and then Members would be added to the group, thus making it easier to manage who all has what permission)


• Add the permission to promote and demote members on the above rank spectrum.

We lack the tools needed to engage in intra-GUILD commerce

• Allows Merchants the ability to have a ‘guild discount’ option. Add a list that allows Guild: ABBREV to have a percentage or set amount discount on items.


• Allow the use of the Guild: ABBREV tag on structure admin lists.


• Allow the use of the Guild: ABBREV tag on structures with an entry fee.


• Add guild vaults with permissions for depositing and withdrawing credits and items. Have the vault have upkeep costs much like a structure.

We lack the ability to distinguish our Guilds

• Emblems with a color / symbol combination that could be applied to clothing / banners


• Replace generic GUILD Hall banners with guild and / or factional banners (Even a small set would allow a lot of diversity.)

Guild Halls are a burden

• Increase GUILD Hall storage amount. Please consider a proper ratio of 75:1 for a total of 525 items. We feel it would not increase the desire for guild halls, but simply allow the leader / guild to have a proper storage amount. (It would still be more beneficial to place small 2 lot houses for more storage space.)


• Add elevator and treasury permission for the GUILD Hall.


• Add public deposit ability on GUILD Hall structure terminal, as with cities, available to all members.


• Use the “merchant tent” illusion to make GUILD Rooftops “inside space” and able to be decorated.


• Add additional unique guild structures acquirable through quests.

I didnt think of these but I like'm!!!!

We lack the tools to engage in relations with other Guilds

• Implement Guild Alliances.


• Allow two or more guilds to form an alliance in which they would receive an alliance chat channel, notifications when one member goes to war, changes leaders, alliance MOTD, alliance email, etc...


• Allow all guilds in the alliance to declare a ‘leader of the alliance’ who would control alliance permission settings. Using the above mentioned new Guild Voting system to switch leaders.


• All guilds would vote on when a new guild requests to be a member of the alliance. (Unanimous or Majority, an option to be decided upon creation.)


• Alliances should only allow one faction type. (Rebel / Neutral or Imperial / Neutral only.)

Guild war needs a revamp

• Guild war is rarely used because non-combat characters are easily griefed.




• Implement a new type of guild war. Apply the covert / overt system to guild war such that everyone is covert when the war begins. A member may visit their GUILD Terminal to declare as overt for the purposes of the guild feud.


• Add kill stats, victory conditions, and time limits to guild war and guild feud.


• Email both guilds the victor of the war when conditions are met or time expires. (Win / Loss / Draw)


• Add timer to Guild wars so they may only be toggled on or off after an hour, allowing both guilds time to prepare for engagement or peace. This is to prevent quick toggle griefing. (This code exists currently for the Covert / Overt system.)

We lack the ability to participate in the GCW as a guild

• Allow us to view the faction declaration and faction ranks of all guild members.


• Implement guild faction affiliations and guild faction points.


• Implement guild faction perks.


• Implement kill stats and guild rankings.

Popular feature request, allow us to hide the GUILD Tag

• Coverts in a factional guild won’t be blowing their cover just by being in the guild.


• Guild leader may toggle the permission to allow individual members to hide their tag.


• Those who want to role-play spies and special ops can now do so.


• All guild tags show by default.


• /guildstatus would still show the guild a person is in:




• To simulate having to do a little detective work to find out what guild someone is in .


• To increase awareness and use of the /guildstatus command.


• To prevent griefing.

Automated dues option decided by the leader – by bank tax or mission payout tax (Already exits for Cities.)

We need more ways to recruit and communicate with potential members

• Add an in game “guild registry terminal” in capital cities. Leaders can add guild information that people can search for guilds that are recruiting. Ideally this list would be searchable by faction, number of members, role-playing (yes/no/sometimes), PVP (yes/no/sometimes). Guilds must re-register their information monthly. *** Include a disclaimer that the information is only as valid as the information submitted by the guild leader. ***


• Let sponsored members hear and / or speak in guild chat. (leader toggles this)


• Let recruits apply for membership and provide information about them by visiting the GUILD terminal in a public GUILD Hall. No member would need to be present.

Things I didn't like.

• Allow other structures to be used as GUILD Halls (see below) allowing greater definition for entertaining guilds and others.


• Allow other structures to be used for GUILD Halls by installing a crafted GUILD Terminal (either as an optional component when the structure is made, or after it is placed, whichever is easier). To preserve the difficulty of getting a GUILD Hall the crafted Terminal should require one or more master professions or a guild quest.

I would agree that more guild hall styles would be nice, but one of the thing I liked about the guild system back in the olden days was the effort required to create a guild, and the way it was implimented. EQ made you gather up 10 people, log off, go to a chat room, approve the name and wait on a GM to tag you... that sucked.. I dont recall how you formed a guild in DaoC. WoW made you take around an ingame item to have "signed" and the system auto tagged you (This was neat, but didnt require much more than standing around in Stormwind yelling.) Actually having to get a hall, place it, take peopel to it.. was very unique. The Guild Hall was a major portion of this. The number of lots it takes ect.

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Things I had in mine that wasnt in yours:

Renting rooms in the PA Hall

1. Eases the cost of being a PA leader in both Maintence and lot usage.


2. Would allow more decoration of the hall, each renter woudl get 75 items that they could place, and a managment terminal that would have all the same features of a house. The main structure terminal in the main room of the PA would only set admin on that room, the guild treasury, and the cost associated with renting a room..whether it cost the rent a lot and/or credits and how much hourly)


3. Eases city space usage. Multiple people residing in a single building.


4. Would give the PA hall a larger presence. (It would be the residence of 7-10 members so it would be more visited.)