Player Associations Archive
Thread: PA Suggestions / Wishlist
atytula
Tue Dec 21, 2004 5:56 pm
#14
Rothin wrote:
The easier way to do this though would not be to change the actual guild chat, since a lot of guilds will want to remain out of alliances and thus would not want the way they speak to each other altered, so guild chat would be better left the same. Keep it exactly as it is now, use /gu to talk to the guild in private with only your guild to view.
In Alliance however, /alli or something short for it to be able to speak in the alliance chat would would then display Name (Tag): text. However, rather then merging the two, if its a display you're worried about, just have the alliance channel default to spatial or any tabs that have guild chat in them. Then it's on by default with the option to be turned off.
It would be simplier than changing a very well known system when it really isn't necessary to achieve the same end result.
For PAs that stay out of alliances, they won't notice a thing. In essence they are in an alliance where they are the only members and there guildchat is there own. Nothing changes at all. The reason I am suggesting this is because what you are suggesting doesn't work on average. I have tried the "separate" channel option and nobody uses it for anything other then during a raid, and even then it is only used by 10% of the players. When players want to talk, 90% of them will use guildchat to talk to guildies.
The reason for my recomendation is to in essence force the guildchats together and provide a transparent way to have an "Alliance". In essence it is like the alliance agreeing to use the same frequencies. If the guild doesn't want to do this, they program there own frequency and have there private guild chat. If they want an alliance, the guild leader tunes in and the chat channel becomes joined.
Your solution is a waste of developers time at the moment. I would much rather the devs work on other PA things then to create another channel to setup. We can already do this with private channels, and for the most part with the auto join added recently, it is what you are asking for (only it is public). I am just looking at an easy way for two guilds to do a temporary or maybe even permenant merge without actually merging the PAs.
atytula
Tue Dec 21, 2004 6:49 pm
#15
First off, when proposing things, we do not try to figure out how it is implmented. That is up to the devs. If you put yourself in the mindset of can it be done, we will get nowhere. We come up with the ideas, pitch them at the devs and then they decide whether it can be done or not. I am pretty confiedent that they will look at your current request and say, use private channels, because in essence that is what you are asking for. If they look at mine and say they don't have the time and manpower for something of this nature, then fine. But please, only judge an idea as good if it is a good idea, not if you believe it is hard to implement. For all we know, the system is already designed in such a way that they just add two lines of code and two guildchats are linked. I remember back near launch people complaining that they were having similar issues.
When it comes to what I propose, first off, it isn't a closed ended idea. We can morph it into something that works. If you are scared of being forced to use a guild chat with an alliance then you probably haven't read my post about the whisper feature, nor should you be in an alliance with that guild. You are not being forced to do anything you don't want to. Also, the guild leader doesn't have to form an alliance with another guild. All I am proposing is the chatroom labelled "guildchat" also have alliance chat. Even if it is a new command like /alli, if you are reading guildchat, you are also reading alliance chat. If you make it more customizable then that, the guild leaders have the hardest time getting there members to look at the other tabs and then it is a waste of time.
Rothin
Tue Dec 21, 2004 7:01 pm
#16
I'm not here to argue, so I'll let things lie in that respect.
However, in your last post what you said hits more to something I think would be nice to implement. Adding it into the guild chat code is fine, so it displays in the same area, etc.. I have absolutely no problem with that. But by default, guild chat should stay as /gu, not goto alliance chat. However, adding in an additional command for chat that will goto the alliance porition of it with /alli or /alliance would be perfectly fine. You could tie the two windows together if you wished, but I don't feel that /gu should default to the alliance portion.
And as with all systems, the ability to look at / view alliance chat should be a toggable option by each individual member, just like the use of guild chat currently is. No one should be required to do anything, however, I do think it should be turned on by default.
I think we're both talking about the same thing, but thinking about it differently. Hopefully I've phrased what I'm asking for here a little better. /gu for guild as is now. /alli for alliance, both can be the same channel. Alliance chat would be Name (Tag) and a different color text than normal and all members from the guilds would be auto added to the alliance chat just as they are guild chat. If they want to use it is still completely up to them, but let's not change how to talk to your guild when it doesn't need to be.
atytula
Tue Dec 21, 2004 10:11 pm
#17
Well, what you are saying is not what I was, but like I said, I don't mind morphing my idea, but I do have my base requirements. Basically, PA leaders need a mechanism to form an alliance and make it easy (and I mean a 12yo needs to be able to do it) to take part in the alliance chat. If they need to add a chat type to a chat tab or do anything, it is too much because we will spend an awful amount of time trying re-explaining it to our members. I am all for a toggle in the options to ignore alliance chat (just like ignoring AFK players) and the actual commands don't matter to me. /alli is a mechanism that I can easily work with.
And don't get me wrong, I am not trying to argue. Just discuss 
.
.
BadMisterFrosty
Thu Dec 23, 2004 5:29 am
#18
Each chat channel can be put into every tab. Writing something in the tab will send your message to the channel which was set as default for that tab. Just add your guild channel to the new alliance tab. Then you have your »whisper« function. Writing in the channel will send it to the alliance, using /gu will send it to your guildmates only. I don't see any problem with that.
Suldrup
Thu Dec 23, 2004 11:04 am
#19
sorry, wrong forum
Message Edited by Suldrup on 12-23-2004 07:16 PM
atytula
Thu Dec 23, 2004 3:51 pm
#20
BMF, I am well aware of how it can be done, but I am saying that 90% of players WONT do this. They will keep the tabs separated and the most used tabs will be spacial and guild. Making the Alliance channel small. It needs to be combined, at least by default, so that when an alliance is formed, everyone in the guild can see it right away.
I still like Rothin's idea where it can be turned off in the control panel. Basically, the channel "guildchat" would automatically show you alliance chat and you would have to disable this feature yourself to get rid of it (not create a new tab for only guildchat).
Rothin
Thu Dec 23, 2004 4:49 pm
#21
atytula wrote:
BMF, I am well aware of how it can be done, but I am saying that 90% of players WONT do this. They will keep the tabs separated and the most used tabs will be spacial and guild. Making the Alliance channel small. It needs to be combined, at least by default, so that when an alliance is formed, everyone in the guild can see it right away.
I still like Rothin's idea where it can be turned off in the control panel. Basically, the channel "guildchat" would automatically show you alliance chat and you would have to disable this feature yourself to get rid of it (not create a new tab for only guildchat).
Yeah, turning it on by default is the best way to go when enabled and just set it to show on spatial (Which is by far the most used tab.) We've of course also asked for Guild chat to be placed on spatial by default as well so they go side by side if done. Then if you dont want it, you just remove it from the channel via the Modify tab like you would combat spam, etc..
Garabaldi
Mon Dec 27, 2004 4:59 pm
#22
5 STARS. All of these things should have been live from release. I've never seen a guild system in an MMO executed so poorly.
Guilds in SWG are just tags. It's sad.
Guilds in SWG are just tags. It's sad.
Message Edited by Garabaldi on 12-28-2004 12:00 AM
Tavtrin
Mon Dec 27, 2004 5:09 pm
#23
Garabaldi wrote:
5 STARS. All of these things should have been live from release. I've never seen a guild system in an MMO executed so poorly.
Guilds in SWG are just tags. It's sad.
Message Edited by Garabaldi on 12-28-2004 12:00 AM
I agree they should have been in release. But a good guild isn't "just tags".
atytula
Tue Dec 28, 2004 11:56 am
#24
I don't think anyone will dispute that the members of a guild are what make it good, but regardless of the members, we are in need of a good "guild system" so that we can manage our guilds and give purpose to our members. And there is one other thing we have in SWG, guildchat.
Tavtrin wrote:
Garabaldi wrote:
5 STARS. All of these things should have been live from release. I've never seen a guild system in an MMO executed so poorly.
Guilds in SWG are just tags. It's sad.
Message Edited by Garabaldi on 12-28-2004 12:00 AM
I agree they should have been in release. But a good guild isn't "just tags".
Rothin
Tue Dec 28, 2004 12:22 pm
#25
Garabaldi wrote:
5 STARS. All of these things should have been live from release. I've never seen a guild system in an MMO executed so poorly.
Guilds in SWG are just tags. It's sad.
Message Edited by Garabaldi on 12-28-2004 12:00 AM
While I certainly thank you for the 5 stars, I really disagree that Guilds in SWG are just 'tags' and that we have a poorly executed system. SWG was released in 2003, which at the time most MMOs had a very basic feature set for guilds just like SWG included in release. EQ which was the biggest MMO, had just very recently added in some of the features that we're requesting now, such as a Guild "Window" in which they required you to own the Legacy of Ykhesa (Spelling?) expansion just to have access to. In that window you had the name, rank, last time on, zone, and a personal / public note area. That was a very late change into their system.
When SWG Launched, it included a lot of features most other MMOs didn't include from launch with guilds. We had the ability to assign individual permissions based on how we wanted to do it, guild halls, titles, guild wars, etc.. You have to remember that this guild system is nearly 2 years old at this point and at the time was still an 'above' average system. The problem is now, 2 years later, you're trying to compare this to newer games that have come out and were able to enhance the guild system further, which I'm sure SWG would have done had it been in development another 2 years. You can't really compare them like that. Apples and Oranges.
Now.. SWG was lacking one thing EQ did have, which is that guild window and I will be the first to admit that guilds could have been designed better from the get go, but, we did launch with a working guild system with very few bugs. You can't really complain there. Now.. what SWG does need is a revamp on guilds to stay 'competitive' with newer MMOs and the features they are employing now. That's why we've come up with our wishlist and what we'd like to see in game. I'm fully confident that when time can be devoted to a PA update, if they can im plement even half of our ideas the guild system would far surpass any other MMO currently on the market and would really improve the game.
No matter what the features of a guild system, the guild is only as good as its members and that will always be the case. If you've been playing games long enough you'll remember before there were actual guild systems and we just had guilds running off a webpage with no in game support. We're always making steps in the right direction, we just have to make sure we make the right comparasions, which in this case is SWG vs MMOs from Two years ago, not EQ2 or WoW. 
atytula
Tue Dec 28, 2004 12:51 pm
#26
I have only played 2 other MMO before SWG and I am now starting on WoW (don't worry, I am with SWG for a few years yet), and I have seen older guild systems better then this one. When I played Asheron's Call, they had a hierchial (SP?) guild where you declare alliegience to someone and they do the same and the person at the top is the leader. You could only have 10 people declared to you. Kind of an Amway deal. It gave an interesting perspective to guilds. I also played Earth and Beyond. When I left that game (to come to SWG) they had a ranking system (10 ranks), a whos online feature, an easy way to change leadership (the leader at the top would promote someone to his position and he would get demoted, if the leader does not log in for 1 month, someone from the rank below is declared leader automatically).
So, I agree that the guild system in SWG has some unique abilities (like having a guild hall) but some of the basics that we have been asking for have been done in an MMO before SWG was even released.