Player Associations Archive
Thread: No offense, but....
Tiggs
Thu Jun 09, 2005 1:44 pm
#27
Exactly!
Rothin wrote:
gordon861 wrote:
Gothywench wrote:
As we keep saying...it *is* being fixed. It's already at the top of the list.
Am I the only one that would love to see this 'list' is it published anywhere ?
I wish SOE would publish a list of the current bugs that they know about and what they are working on, or even at the very least a red name(I'd even settle for a yellow,just some SOE feedback please)would visit here and post to let us know that they are working on it.
You'll never see a published list of bugs. The main reason being if they ever did publish one then those who like to exploit them would find new ways to break the game and abuse it even more. It would cause too many problems to ever put out a list like that.
atytula
Thu Jun 09, 2005 1:52 pm
#28
Agreed, and if you took only a few days to get a fix from the point the bug is reported, to the day it is live, I would truely fear for the quality of the game. A solid QA process is needed, especially in a game as complex as SWG, and the fact that it takes a month to go from bug reported to the fix in live helps assure us that you have that QA process in place.
Tiggs wrote:
Liani wrote:
The time it takes to fix a bug, and get it out to live can be as much as two months.
wow.....whoever said that first really sold it. It gets quoted over and over again.
My roomie worked for EA Sports. (They make a ton of video games) They also make them for consoles, so don't have the luxury of pubishing bug-ridden products.
I saw her bang out bug fixes all the time...huge ones....in days, not months. They published with ZERO bugs, over and over again.
Our problemcan be hotfixed. Code can be written to restore guild leaders so we have full access. Code can also be written to freeze the election system. Then, the longer term issues can be worked on in a normal development cycle.
I am all for the devs. I think they arewonderful people, and this is a great game. But lets not be star-struck because a few people met them face to face. They have a job to do...and in this case, they are not doing it.
I will comment here then on the other issues in another post.
You can not compare any (EA included) game to Star Wars Galaxies. Our game is very complex as is the coding. Nothing is an easy fix where online games are concerned.
Rothin
Thu Jun 09, 2005 1:59 pm
#29
Inamalcus wrote:Tiggs ... So don't list the few exploitable bugs!!!
You can't exploit the fact that layers don't display the correct values when you experiment on them.
You can't exploit the fact that I'm stuck and can't get a crimson tie becasue I answered that the gotal pirates were easy to defeat.
You can't exploit most of the bugs I experience. All they do is screw me.
So yes, please don't post the bugs that can lead to exploits. I will concede that. But please make a list with the other 99% of the bugs that can't be exploited and are just frustrating players!!!
Players will find a way to exploit almost any bug. Even if its an item that won't work, they'll try to sell it knowing it won't work, etc.. they aren't ever going to list all the bugs in the game because someone will fnid a way to abuse them. At the same time, if they ever did try to sort out the exploitable bugs versus the other ones it'd take them forever and a day to do it considering new bugs get reported every day. It just isn't feasible to even attempt it.
saintchuck
Thu Jun 09, 2005 2:00 pm
#30
Inamalcus wrote:Tiggs ... So don't list the few exploitable bugs!!!
You can't exploit the fact that layers don't display the correct values when you experiment on them.
You can't exploit the fact that I'm stuck and can't get a crimson tie becasue I answered that the gotal pirates were easy to defeat.
You can't exploit most of the bugs I experience. All they do is screw me.
So yes, please don't post the bugs that can lead to exploits. I will concede that. But please make a list with the other 99% of the bugs that can't be exploited and are just frustrating players!!!
QFE and /seconded
Buxley
Thu Jun 09, 2005 2:44 pm
#32
Tiggs wrote:
Liani wrote:
The time it takes to fix a bug, and get it out to live can be as much as two months.
wow.....whoever said that first really sold it. It gets quoted over and over again.My roomie worked for EA Sports. (They make a ton of video games) They also make them for consoles, so don't have the luxury of pubishing bug-ridden products.I saw her bang out bug fixes all the time...huge ones....in days, not months. They published with ZERO bugs, over and over again.Our problem can be hotfixed. Code can be written to restore guild leaders so we have full access. Code can also be written to freeze the election system. Then, the longer term issues can be worked on in a normal development cycle.I am all for the devs. I think they are wonderful people, and this is a great game. But lets not be star-struck because a few people met them face to face. They have a job to do...and in this case, they are not doing it.
I will comment here then on the other issues in another post.
You can not compare any (EA included) game to Star Wars Galaxies. Our game is very complex as is the coding. Nothing is an easy fix where online games are concerned.
At the risk of sounding like a sycophant (look it up), I have to agree with Tiggs here.
Writing a single-person console game and writing a MMO game are two completely different animals. I know, I've been a developer on an MMO and a typical software engineer (let alone a typical player) can't begin to imagine the complexity of such a beast. Yes, I could fix a truly trivial bug in a few hours or a day, but in an MMO where everything depends on everything else, there rarely was such a thing as a truly trivial bug.
So in addition to the time it takes an engineer to code the fix (which follows the time it takes a producer to define the fix) you also have to allow for the testing time. QA (quality assurance) can itself take some time. And yes, insert a joke here about SOE letting us do the testing if you want, but remember what I said about everything depending on everything else? In an MMO, you are always going to have "creative" people who figure out ways to play the game that were not intended. Always.
Something like code "to restore guild leaders so we have full access" has I can imagine all kinds of ramifications. One such ramification: security. Not only do you have to make sure the new code works, it has to work for only the people for whom it's intended. You don't want even one instance of the wrong person getting "full access" to a group's guild.
-Buxley
Liani
Thu Jun 09, 2005 2:57 pm
#33
Sure happy THIS thread didn't get locked....might never have heard from Tiggs.
So....the result of getting a little uppity here is that a red name drops in not once but three times. yay!
The code remark she makes is not really accurate. I am not suggesting that console games are equal in complexity to ones like SWG. I am saying....and still believe....that writing a fix to manually add guild leaders to the terms is totally doable and could have been done already.
Besides....what else is she going to say....that they don't care?
Still, nice to see her here. At least we know they are working on things. Thanks to whoever made that happen.
KyeAshke
Thu Jun 09, 2005 3:16 pm
#34
Tiggs wrote:
Liani wrote:
The time it takes to fix a bug, and get it out to live can be as much as two months.
wow.....whoever said that first really sold it. It gets quoted over and over again.My roomie worked for EA Sports. (They make a ton of video games) They also make them for consoles, so don't have the luxury of pubishing bug-ridden products.I saw her bang out bug fixes all the time...huge ones....in days, not months. They published with ZERO bugs, over and over again.Our problemcan be hotfixed. Code can be written to restore guild leaders so we have full access. Code can also be written to freeze the election system. Then, the longer term issues can be worked on in a normal development cycle.I am all for the devs. I think they arewonderful people, and this is a great game. But lets not be star-struck because a few people met them face to face. They have a job to do...and in this case, they are not doing it.
I will comment here then on the other issues in another post.
You can not compare any (EA included) game to Star Wars Galaxies. Our game is very complex as is the coding. Nothing is an easy fix where online games are concerned.
Sorry to bring up something that (I) think is important, but...
Why wasn't the code checked 100% before hand? The game launched with alot of bugs, and a few of those have propogated through (many Ranger abilites come to mind). I can understand there being slight bugs after a general publish, such as Droids Reinvented(?) and the Jedi Publish a while ago - and yes, even more major bugs with JTL and RotW. But the impact hasn't been limited in any way it seems, at least from a customer point of view.
It feels like the same as happens to offline PC games and to a limited extent Xbox games - because the platform can access the internet, and get any bug patches/fixes from the company, the company feels it doesn't have to do a 100% QA pass. Whilst I don't like consoles myself, the development teams for offline consoles have got alot of respect from me because of it.
Rothin
Thu Jun 09, 2005 3:25 pm
#35
Liani wrote:Sure happy THIS thread didn't get locked....might never have heard from Tiggs.So....the result of getting a little uppity here is that a red name drops in not once but three times. yay!The code remark she makes is not really accurate. I am not suggesting that console games are equal in complexity to ones like SWG. I am saying....and still believe....that writing a fix to manually add guild leaders to the terms is totally doable and could have been done already.Besides....what else is she going to say....that they don't care?Still, nice to see her here. At least we know they are working on things. Thanks to whoever made that happen.
I asked her to post here since no one believed me and thought I was just telling lies. It's just the same info I've been saying for a while now but since you guys wanted to hear it from a red name, thought I'd ask her to say it.
ShineKnuckle
Thu Jun 09, 2005 3:36 pm
#36
Rypht wrote:
Tiggs wrote:
Liani wrote:
The time it takes to fix a bug, and get it out to live can be as much as two months.
wow.....whoever said that first really sold it. It gets quoted over and over again.
My roomie worked for EA Sports. (They make a ton of video games) They also make them for consoles, so don't have the luxury of pubishing bug-ridden products.
I saw her bang out bug fixes all the time...huge ones....in days, not months. They published with ZERO bugs, over and over again.
Our problemcan be hotfixed. Code can be written to restore guild leaders so we have full access. Code can also be written to freeze the election system. Then, the longer term issues can be worked on in a normal development cycle.
I am all for the devs. I think they arewonderful people, and this is a great game. But lets not be star-struck because a few people met them face to face. They have a job to do...and in this case, they are not doing it.
I will comment here then on the other issues in another post.
You can not compare any (EA included) game to Star Wars Galaxies. Our game is very complex as is the coding. Nothing is an easy fix where online games are concerned.
It might make it easier to fix things if you guys kept the same people around for more than 6 months at a time. I'm sure the original dev team would just love to see the "improvements" to their baby.... *smirk* *sigh*
You win this thread. This may be the best post I've seen in months.
I have no clue who works on SWG anymore. All my favorite developers -- the ones who seemed truly passionate about where the game could go, if molded properly -- seem to've vanished like smoke in the wind. I don't mean that the developers we have *now* don't care. I mean only that it seems silly, to me, that they've moved so many people on to new projects, or reassigned them to different tasks, or fired them outright... when they seemed so dedicated to their work.
The only "red names" who I recognize anymore are Tiggs and Thunderheart.
Liani
Thu Jun 09, 2005 3:49 pm
#37
Our problemcan be hotfixed. Code can be written to restore guild leaders so we have full access. Code can also be written to freeze the election system. Then, the longer term issues can be worked on in a normal development cycle.
No one has responded to this suggestion.
Another test center patch report is issued today....and NOTHING about our bugs.
BlessTiggs heart and Rothin's too, but all either has said is that it takes time.
While our bug has lingered....an entire page of fixes have happened for the GCW, Jedi, Driod Engineers, CH, vehicles, etc etc etc.
I was really expecting a fix this time around.
Back to the top of this post. Why can't this be done to repair, not fix, our issues?
Tsimhnori
Thu Jun 09, 2005 4:17 pm
#38
Liani wrote:
Our problem can be hotfixed. Code can be written to restore guild leaders so we have full access. Code can also be written to freeze the election system. Then, the longer term issues can be worked on in a normal development cycle.
No one has responded to this suggestion.Another test center patch report is issued today....and NOTHING about our bugs.Bless Tiggs heart and Rothin's too, but all either has said is that it takes time.While our bug has lingered....an entire page of fixes have happened for the GCW, Jedi, Driod Engineers, CH, vehicles, etc etc etc.I was really expecting a fix this time around.Back to the top of this post. Why can't this be done to repair, not fix, our issues?
don't "repair" and "fix" have the same meaning?
Inoga_Tarien
Thu Jun 09, 2005 4:32 pm
#39
Tiggs wrote:
Exactly!
Rothin wrote:
gordon861 wrote:
Gothywench wrote:
As we keep saying...it *is* being fixed. It's already at the top of the list.
Am I the only one that would love to see this 'list' is it published anywhere ?
I wish SOE would publish a list of the current bugs that they know about and what they are working on, or even at the very least a red name(I'd even settle for a yellow,just some SOE feedback please)would visit here and post to let us know that they are working on it.
You'll never see a published list of bugs. The main reason being if they ever did publish one then those who like to exploit them would find new ways to break the game and abuse it even more. It would cause too many problems to ever put out a list like that.
More closer to the truth is that SOE dosn't have enough integrity to admit they got problems, much less stand up and say so.
Comments by the various SOE bigshots show that with every letter to the comunity, only reinforce that. Then there is the ever popular lie or excuse , of Working As Intended...
A bug list that does not include exploits is possible and has been done before, but perhaps it is the magnetude of showing the true state of the problem. Much less devoting people to actually work on the problem, is too large platefor SOE or SWG to stand up and handle.
Calling them names won't help I am sure, but it gets might tempting or that itcould simply be my that my Texan Nature is getting riled up. Ah don't like being lied to on a frequent basis, and none of the rest of you should tollerate it either.
Call the kettle black, and get on with telling it like is and fixxing the problem rather than shuffling it off with lame excuses of cute off the cuff responses.
Ma'h two centavos.
- I do give the Devs Credit when they Do things Right...