Player Associations Archive
Thread: No offense, but....
gordon861
Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:05 pm
#40
We asked for a 'red post' here because its nice to hear from the top that they really do know what's going on and that we haven't been forgotten.
Rothin it wasn't that no one believed you, it was as stated above nice to hear directly from a DEV sometimes that they know what's going on. Just look at the last Tuesday Tips.
If it is so dangerous to allow a list of bugs to be published because people would exploit them, why have they allowed a player to compile a list on these forums without locking/deleting the thread ? Could this list not be compiled/updated by an SOE employee ?
If SOE wished to they could publish a list of bugs such as the one affecting the guild elections without risking people using it to exploit the game.
An idea would be to publish new patches on the Test Centre a week before they go live so that a lot of the bugs could be spotted and stopped before it goes live. I expect most players would rather the new publish was delayed a week or two (or a month) after going onto TC, if they thought that the bugs in the publish were being fixed before it goes live.
Finally, if the QA process is so good and effective why do a lot of these bugs (like Armor Break working better than Improved Armor Break) get through testing ?
Nastypope
Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:14 pm
#41
no they dont list bugs cause they are afraid of us seeing them all, also they are planning the next big nerf!
Message Edited by Nastypope on 06-09-2005 08:14 PM
Ysoby
Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:27 pm
#42
I'd be curious to know what Raph thinks of his baby...
Rypht wrote:
Tiggs wrote:
Liani wrote:
The time it takes to fix a bug, and get it out to live can be as much as two months.
wow.....whoever said that first really sold it. It gets quoted over and over again.
My roomie worked for EA Sports. (They make a ton of video games) They also make them for consoles, so don't have the luxury of pubishing bug-ridden products.
I saw her bang out bug fixes all the time...huge ones....in days, not months. They published with ZERO bugs, over and over again.
Our problemcan be hotfixed. Code can be written to restore guild leaders so we have full access. Code can also be written to freeze the election system. Then, the longer term issues can be worked on in a normal development cycle.
I am all for the devs. I think they arewonderful people, and this is a great game. But lets not be star-struck because a few people met them face to face. They have a job to do...and in this case, they are not doing it.
I will comment here then on the other issues in another post.
You can not compare any (EA included) game to Star Wars Galaxies. Our game is very complex as is the coding. Nothing is an easy fix where online games are concerned.
It might make it easier to fix things if you guys kept the same people around for more than 6 months at a time. I'm sure the original dev team would just love to see the "improvements" to their baby.... *smirk* *sigh*
Wolveryne40
Fri Jun 10, 2005 6:53 am
#43
Tiggs wrote:
Exactly!
Rothin wrote:
gordon861 wrote:
Gothywench wrote:
As we keep saying...it *is* being fixed. It's already at the top of the list.
Am I the only one that would love to see this 'list' is it published anywhere ?I wish SOE would publish a list of the current bugs that they know about and what they are working on, or even at the very least a red name(I'd even settle for a yellow, just some SOE feedback please) would visit here and post to let us know that they are working on it.
You'll never see a published list of bugs. The main reason being if they ever did publish one then those who like to exploit them would find new ways to break the game and abuse it even more. It would cause too many problems to ever put out a list like that.
Well of course you dont advertise how to dup a credit. but how about things like say, sounds? visual artifacting? clothes that dont fit correctingly? smugglers? Slow loading times? Quests that dont work? Weapons that dont work? proton rifle comes to mind,Ships with guns not placed correctly? an on an on an on . how are those exploitable?
You can still put out a bug report, just have to use that thing called common sense with some of it.
Still would cut down on the repeatable reports, other games do it without reporting how to clip someone, yet advise that they are aware and how soon the fix is coming down the pipe.
Please, try again.
WeskerVaefe
Fri Jun 10, 2005 8:40 am
#44
The truly sad part is that all of this could have been avoided had the Devs left the CU in testing longer before rushing it to live.
Stena
Fri Jun 10, 2005 8:42 am
#45
WeskerVaefe wrote:
The truly sad part is that all of this could have been avoided had the Devs left the CU in testing longer before rushing it to live.
It's NOT the devs fault the CU was rushed out!
lund0529
Fri Jun 10, 2005 11:54 am
#46
Hey Tiggs - it would be nice if the bugs got a "Pounce" as they were recognized... 
More often than not when you report something, it just appears to get ignored, and goes on being a problem for a long long time. Then you just aren't that enthusiastic about reporting things after awhile.
Liani
Fri Jun 10, 2005 1:19 pm
#47
I just want them to stop the election recycling and restore my leadership rights. The bigger issues can take longer....but these two are critical.
Nothing has been said by anyone to convince me this can't be done now. Certainly, in the time these bugs have existed, the fix I suggest could have been implemented.
I think somepeople assume that players have no concept of computer code or gaming, and therefore any answer that sounds technical will suffice. This community deserves more credit than this, and it is hard not to feel a little insulted at some of these 'customer service' responses.
furlock1
Fri Jun 10, 2005 1:42 pm
#48
I think you have to realize, and one of the major reasons I have given them a lot of patience from my perspective. I have designed primative Mush MMO's tex based games. The problem with live connections is global perspective for code, hard coded and soft coded systems. Hard coded systems are very complex usually involve things like Kashyyyk, or Jump to Light speed, they require that the whole global system works to an extent to be coded, the world system that are involved in the world, yes even jedi is an extension of that, as such problems involving hard code are soo what the word scary and easily broken if the code is incorrectly done. They could be soft coded like most dynamic systems, but they have such a high memory useage that soft coding is a bad thing. as a result most of those systems you use, are connected literally to each other, like a giant network or web.
Think of a primative form of the Matrix, systems operate normally without updates, still bugs linger, its a huge system to incorporate.
A game with roughly the complexity of the a Mush was and is still staggering, some games 'these are text mind you' run roughly in 3 or 4 gigs of ram or swap out every so often to save and update. Realize that SWG does the same thing I wager, it may not, but its entirely much larger system. The games I helped with involved text, nothing else and their DB was huge 3 or 4 gigs, all running in memory, now bring graphics, and some of the best graphics of any game I have seen or given the time of day to anyway. These are huge systems and again each time they add to the web, problem or glitches will occur its a forgone conclusion. Its only a matter of time. I don't know what SOE invests in SWG but I can imagine the coders who work on this system are eternally drowned with bugs. What they need is an army of debuggers, and even then it may or may not solve all the problems. They recently found new animations for Jedi that had never been discovered, does that tell you anything about the complexity of the system.
Think of a primative form of the Matrix, systems operate normally without updates, still bugs linger, its a huge system to incorporate.
A game with roughly the complexity of the a Mush was and is still staggering, some games 'these are text mind you' run roughly in 3 or 4 gigs of ram or swap out every so often to save and update. Realize that SWG does the same thing I wager, it may not, but its entirely much larger system. The games I helped with involved text, nothing else and their DB was huge 3 or 4 gigs, all running in memory, now bring graphics, and some of the best graphics of any game I have seen or given the time of day to anyway. These are huge systems and again each time they add to the web, problem or glitches will occur its a forgone conclusion. Its only a matter of time. I don't know what SOE invests in SWG but I can imagine the coders who work on this system are eternally drowned with bugs. What they need is an army of debuggers, and even then it may or may not solve all the problems. They recently found new animations for Jedi that had never been discovered, does that tell you anything about the complexity of the system.
Message Edited by furlock1 on 06-10-2005 03:47 PM
baxnzar
Sat Jun 11, 2005 6:05 am
#49
Stena wrote:
WeskerVaefe wrote:
The truly sad part is that all of this could have been avoided had the Devs left the CU in testing longer before rushing it to live.
It's NOT the devs fault the CU was rushed out!
Then who's fault was it, and how do we get them in trouble?
Message Edited by baxnzar on 06-11-2005 06:14 AM
Stena
Sat Jun 11, 2005 6:42 am
#50
baxnzar wrote:
Stena wrote:
WeskerVaefe wrote:
The truly sad part is that all of this could have been avoided had the Devs left the CU in testing longer before rushing it to live.
It's NOT the devs fault the CU was rushed out!
Then who's fault was it, and how do we get them in trouble?Message Edited by baxnzar on 06-11-2005 06:14 AM
The people above the Devs, the devs only code the game they have a time table to do things like adding new features ect...This would come from both LA and SOE higher ups.
Liani
Sat Jun 11, 2005 8:15 am
#51
I do not care to lay blame.
I just want to be able to use my skills.
If I were a fencer, and I was not able to equip my weapons, I would not be able to play.
For a guildleader, not being able to use the PA terminal is the same thing.
Imagine....if Jedi could not equip their lightsabers. Do you really think it would take weeks or months to fix the problem?
Rothin
Sat Jun 11, 2005 8:33 am
#52
Do you honestly think argueing semantics is going to get it fixed any quicker? Because it won't. They are working on it, they can't just magically make it work in an instant. Fixes take time. You're trying to compare one bug that might have a quick fix IE, can't equip a weapon, versus a bug that has oh.. about 15 different issues associated with it.
They aren't the same thing. They never will be the same thing. Our fix is going to require a little more time since it has more than one cause and much more than one effect associated with it. They tried a quick fix to the terminal issue a while back and look what it did to PAs, it caused all of this. Do you want them to do that again and have it screw up everything else associated with it? Because I sure don't. I'd rather them take the time and FIX it than do a hotfix and break other things at the same time.
I'm going to stop posting to these threads now since it's not going to change the fact that it is a TOP PRIORITY fix and IS being worked on right now for a FIX. If someone has a new issue caused by the election bug, feel free to post it and I will forward it on with the others.
They aren't the same thing. They never will be the same thing. Our fix is going to require a little more time since it has more than one cause and much more than one effect associated with it. They tried a quick fix to the terminal issue a while back and look what it did to PAs, it caused all of this. Do you want them to do that again and have it screw up everything else associated with it? Because I sure don't. I'd rather them take the time and FIX it than do a hotfix and break other things at the same time.
I'm going to stop posting to these threads now since it's not going to change the fact that it is a TOP PRIORITY fix and IS being worked on right now for a FIX. If someone has a new issue caused by the election bug, feel free to post it and I will forward it on with the others.