Player Associations Archive
Thread: No offense, but....
Rothin
Tue Jun 07, 2005 1:28 pm
#14
Liani wrote:
Believe me, they want to get these fixed.
How do you know this? Because I'm guessing you have access to the same information I do, and what I see is a focus on combat and Jedi issues, and NOT these ones.Please provide me with evidence of their concern, outside of recycled second hand references.I appreciate that this is not an easy fix. I also understand more, now that there is an actual dialog about it. I take Rothin's word as true that they did not include coding to simple assign someone as guild leader. (Although I am amazed....what a short-sighted move that was!) Still....it is so broken that some guilds cannot function at all. I stand by my premise that if Jedi or Rifle people could not equip their weapons, this would already be patched up.
Gothy was at Fan Fest, I met her. She heard the same things I did from the devs. There are some other very critical bugs as well.. the "too far away" bug that is effecting ALL kinds of things like watching / listening to entertainers, some objects being unaccessable, etc.. etc.. also Commandos have a Master Weapon, the Proton Rifle, that they can't use at all. They can equip it but it will not fire. PAs are not the only major issue they have to work on right now.. there are quite a few, but honestly the PA one ranks number one with me and all those who are affected by it, but for all those who have the other bugs its their number one issue as well. Everyone has something they want fixed and they want it done now, realistically it doesn't quite happen like that. I wish it did, believe me. Some things are easier to fix than others, some aren't. Honestly, I'd rather them fix it right this time then send out another hotfix that breaks 10 other things for us, which is what happened last time. I don't think any of us want a repeat of this. It was mentioned to just disable it for the time being, so maybe they can at least go that route until it's fixed, I don't know. As soon as I hear something, you guys will be the first to know as always.
atytula
Tue Jun 07, 2005 2:56 pm
#15
I too was at fan fest, and yes, there are many many issues the devs need to work on, but they need to prioritize the issues based on the most impact. Right now, the PA bugs (which have nothing to do with the CU) are effecting the most number of people, as most people are in a guild. This should be their top issue to fix. I too a commando, and I feel that one professions bugs should never outway the communities bugs.
Rothin wrote:
Gothy was at Fan Fest, I met her. She heard the same things I did from the devs. There are some other very critical bugs as well.. the "too far away" bug that is effecting ALL kinds of things like watching / listening to entertainers, some objects being unaccessable, etc.. etc.. also Commandos have a Master Weapon, the Proton Rifle, that they can't use at all. They can equip it but it will not fire. PAs are not the only major issue they have to work on right now.. there are quite a few, but honestly the PA one ranks number one with me and all those who are affected by it, but for all those who have the other bugs its their number one issue as well. Everyone has something they want fixed and they want it done now, realistically it doesn't quite happen like that. I wish it did, believe me. Some things are easier to fix than others, some aren't. Honestly, I'd rather them fix it right this time then send out another hotfix that breaks 10 other things for us, which is what happened last time. I don't think any of us want a repeat of this. It was mentioned to just disable it for the time being, so maybe they can at least go that route until it's fixed, I don't know. As soon as I hear something, you guys will be the first to know as always.
With that being said, the devs are working hard to fix these issues, they were very responsive at fan fest in that they have lots of bugs and they are doing their best to swat them all. The biggest problem they face is time. The time it takes to fix a bug, and get it out to live can be as much as two months. I understand the need to test things thouroughly, but I think they should try to optimize their development cycle so fixes can get to us quickly.
Liani
Tue Jun 07, 2005 3:41 pm
#16
The time it takes to fix a bug, and get it out to live can be as much as two months.
wow.....whoever said that first really sold it. It gets quoted over and over again. 
My roomie worked for EA Sports. (They make a ton of video games) They also make them for consoles, so don't have the luxury of pubishing bug-ridden products.
I saw her bang out bug fixes all the time...huge ones....in days, not months. They published with ZERO bugs, over and over again.
Our problemcan be hotfixed. Code can be written to restore guild leaders so we have full access. Code can also be written to freeze the election system. Then, the longer term issues can be worked on in a normal development cycle.
I am all for the devs. I think they arewonderful people, and this is a great game. But lets not be star-struck because a few people met them face to face. They have a job to do...and in this case, they are not doing it.
Gothywench
Tue Jun 07, 2005 6:45 pm
#17
Liani wrote:
I am all for the devs. I think they are wonderful people, and this is a great game. But lets not be star-struck because a few people met them face to face. They have a job to do...and in this case, they are not doing it.
Honestly, I don't think you will take any answer that any of us can give. All I know is what I was told. They *don't* know how to fix it and they ARE working on it. So, whether they can get it in a day or 2 months, the simple fact is they don't know what is causing it.
As the others have said, many things are broken and everyone wants their issue first. They are working on this currently along with the targeting issue for terminals, entertainers and such. They simply haven't resolved it yet and don't have anything to *push* out.
Believe me, they would if they could. Btw...they are having a HYOOGE meeting this week for scheduling and prioritizing, and getting a status out as soon as they can.
Liani
Tue Jun 07, 2005 6:59 pm
#18
Btw...they are having a HYOOGE meeting this week for scheduling and prioritizing, and getting a status out as soon as they can.
Gothy, the only answer I am not accepting is that nothing can be done. I totally diasgree. Doesn't mean I hate youor anyone here. I just see how the SWG community works, and how they interact with the developers. The fact is, playing kissy face all the time does nothing. Being vocal and determined sometimes...not always...gets us on the radar and a resolution magically appears.
And...if they are having a hyooge meeting about priorities....I would think communicatingour situation in no uncertain terms would be a TOP goal of those who have guild leadership issues, which is really all I am doing.
If I were a pistoleer and could not equip my pistols....do you think the same wait and see attitude would prevail over in their forum? Please.....if y'all are so cozy with the SOE folks....ask them that exact question. Ask them if denying access to the primary tool I use in the game, my terminal, is not game breaking.
Goodness, I hope this meeting results in a positive outcome for the PA community. It is sure as heck our turn, don't you think? My fingers are crossed...are yours?
Message Edited by Liani on 06-07-2005 07:00 PM
atytula
Tue Jun 07, 2005 9:34 pm
#19
Liani wrote:
wow.....whoever said that first really sold it. It gets quoted over and over again.
My roomie worked for EA Sports. (They make a ton of video games) They also make them for consoles, so don't have the luxury of pubishing bug-ridden products.
I saw her bang out bug fixes all the time...huge ones....in days, not months. They published with ZERO bugs, over and over again.
Our problemcan be hotfixed. Code can be written to restore guild leaders so we have full access. Code can also be written to freeze the election system. Then, the longer term issues can be worked on in a normal development cycle.
I am all for the devs. I think they arewonderful people, and this is a great game. But lets not be star-struck because a few people met them face to face. They have a job to do...and in this case, they are not doing it.
I don't think you understand what I mean. Sure, you can fix a bug in a day or a few hours, or with the really tough ones, maybe a few days. The hard part is testing. Remember that this is an MMO, not a single player game, or even a simple multiplayer game. A lot of issues won't show up until there are a lot of people pounding away at the server.
Given a 5 day week, say it takes a day to fix the bug. The bug then gets sent to QA. Depending on their shedule, lets be optomistic, they can start the next day, they take a week or two verifing the bug. The initial tests are trying to directly reproducing it, then the next week or two is to make sure it doesn't come up into normal play. Then the fix gets sent to TC. In TC, QA pounds at it some more, and has assistance from the player base to increase the load and the conditions that are required to reproduce the bug. This will last a week or two. Then it gets onto a live server, where we can enjoy the fixed bug.
Now if any of these QA steps ends up reproducing the bug, then it is sent back to the developers and the whole process starts over. Also keep in mind that this is happening per bug. QA probably has toverify at least 10-20 bugs a week (maybe more)and so the scale increases even more.
So, one month is probably the average, but it can be two or more months for a fix to make it to live, that doesn't mean it takes a month to fix. Yes, they could make the fix, do a mini publish and cross their fingers it works, but I would rather there be a fix that works the first time and I never have to worry about the bug again.
Now, I don't disagree that maybe they can do something to speed up the procecss. Maybe declare priority one bugs like the leadership bug to be accelerated. The fix gets in, it gets QAed quickly and skip TC and let us test it live. As long as it doesn't get worse, we are better off. But don't knock the QA process, as it is an important part in properly fixing bugs.
Gothywench
Wed Jun 08, 2005 5:13 am
#20
Liani wrote:
And...if they are having a hyooge meeting about priorities....I would think communicating our situation in no uncertain terms would be a TOP goal of those who have guild leadership issues, which is really all I am doing......Goodness, I hope this meeting results in a positive outcome for the PA community. It is sure as heck our turn, don't you think? My fingers are crossed...are yours?
Actually, Rothin and a LOT of people really went to bat to get this way more attention that it had before. Not just Guild leaders and our Corr, but guild members were all outspoken about this. It has made a lot of people uncertain.
Really, since they are working on it currently and haven't figured out how to fix it, I don't know if there is anything else we can do. It is already a top priority. Even if it is the number one priority, that doesn't help a programmer figure out a solution quickly. They very much wanted to fix this issue, as some of the planned cool stuff they want for content, cannot happen until this is fixed.
And yes....my fingers are crossed.
gordon861
Wed Jun 08, 2005 4:05 pm
#21
I'm sure I posted here today but now I can't find it, did it get deleted ?
NHillwater
Thu Jun 09, 2005 3:19 am
#22
I agree 100%. This is a VERY annoying bug.. that attach many players since most players are sooner or laterconnected to a guild.
If the develpoers or any other person in SOE reads this that have any power when it comes to what bugs and stuff to fix. This is another P.A. leader and Mayor that hereby sends you a prayer about fixing this ASAP.
Gothywench
Thu Jun 09, 2005 5:42 am
#23
NHillwater wrote:
I agree 100%. This is a VERY annoying bug.. that attach many players since most players are sooner or later connected to a guild.
If the develpoers or any other person in SOE reads this that have any power when it comes to what bugs and stuff to fix. This is another P.A. leader and Mayor that hereby sends you a prayer about fixing this ASAP.
As we keep saying...it *is* being fixed. It's already at the top of the list.
gordon861
Thu Jun 09, 2005 7:42 am
#24
Gothywench wrote:
As we keep saying...it *is* being fixed. It's already at the top of the list.
Am I the only one that would love to see this 'list' is it published anywhere ?
I wish SOE would publish a list of the current bugs that they know about and what they are working on, or even at the very least a red name(I'd even settle for a yellow,just some SOE feedback please)would visit here and post to let us know that they are working on it.
Rothin
Thu Jun 09, 2005 7:49 am
#25
gordon861 wrote:
Gothywench wrote:
As we keep saying...it *is* being fixed. It's already at the top of the list.
Am I the only one that would love to see this 'list' is it published anywhere ?I wish SOE would publish a list of the current bugs that they know about and what they are working on, or even at the very least a red name(I'd even settle for a yellow,just some SOE feedback please)would visit here and post to let us know that they are working on it.
You'll never see a published list of bugs. The main reason being if they ever did publish one then those who like to exploit them would find new ways to break the game and abuse it even more. It would cause too many problems to ever put out a list like that.
I'll ask and see if someone will stop by and say its being worked on since that will comfort you, but I wouldn't expect them to say anything else besides that.
Tiggs
Thu Jun 09, 2005 1:39 pm
#26
Liani wrote:
The time it takes to fix a bug, and get it out to live can be as much as two months.
wow.....whoever said that first really sold it. It gets quoted over and over again.
My roomie worked for EA Sports. (They make a ton of video games) They also make them for consoles, so don't have the luxury of pubishing bug-ridden products.
I saw her bang out bug fixes all the time...huge ones....in days, not months. They published with ZERO bugs, over and over again.
Our problemcan be hotfixed. Code can be written to restore guild leaders so we have full access. Code can also be written to freeze the election system. Then, the longer term issues can be worked on in a normal development cycle.
I am all for the devs. I think they arewonderful people, and this is a great game. But lets not be star-struck because a few people met them face to face. They have a job to do...and in this case, they are not doing it.
I will comment here then on the other issues in another post.
You can not compare any (EA included) game to Star Wars Galaxies. Our game is very complex as is the coding. Nothing is an easy fix where online games are concerned.