Pistoleer Archive

our maximum accuracy range is about 20m anyways.... we are melee-ranged attackers, and many people need to accept that, or pick up something else

the range restriction doesn't make sense logistically, but neither does a range for commandos, but it makes sense for BALANCE......

my personal playstyle, is very much like randonb's synopsis of what he thinks a pistoleer SHOULD be, and that is a supplement tanker.... ready and willing to take the place of the tanker if he or she should happen to go down, and always right behind the tankers offering support, fast and nimble- weaving in and out of the thick of combat

my personal view is that pistols should get an overall cap of 48m, and our power, accuracy, speed, and defenses should be greatly increased to compensate

just put it this way..... how many pistoleers really crawl on the ground from 64m away trying to snipe people? i don't either

• An abilityused to increase damage signifigantly at close range at the cost of HAM and accuracy.


• Granted at Master Pistoleer


• Able to use any two pistols (they do not have to be identical)

Weapon variables

• Weapon speed for attack speed calculations




• The slower of the two pistols the person is firing will be used for attack speed calcs.


• Weapon damage for attack damage calculations




• Both weapons will do individual damage to the target at the calculated attack speed.




• For example, if the player uses both a striker pistol and a geo pistol,the target will be hit with both a kinetic damage and a stun damage number at the slower of the two weapon speeds.


• Weapon HAM for HAM cost calculations




• The sum of both weapon HAM cost will be used for HAM cost calcs (perhaps even double this amount if spamming gets out of hand).


• Weapon accuracy for accuracy calculations




• Theworst point blank accuracy mod will be used to determine the accuracy slope for both pistols




• The accuracy slope will be very steep meaning that at point blank there is a signifigant bonus to accuracy, and at max range there is a signifigant penalty.


• The accuracy slope will be pre-determined (read fixed by the devs) to help futher balance the dual wield ability


• Weapon ranges (special case for SR combat pistol)




• Lowest max range distance will be used to determine max range of both pistols and the accuracy slope.

Use of specials

• There will be no limit to which special attacks may be used. However, splitting specials between both pistols (i.e. healthshot on one pistol and bodyshot on the other) will not be possible.

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There are other possibilities to allow this ability to not get too out of hand, but the combat upgrade might just throw all of that out.

I like the arcade reference it truly makes sense. My idea for dual wielding would be it's the pistoleer's endgame. They work hard and finally reap the reward of dual wield. Instead of switching between single and dual why not just have a special like aim, or stopping shot if you will to be a single aimed special. The person would go into a supported stance. Maybe a an arm cross for accuracy or something with the secondary weapon arm supporting the proficient one. This would allow for a more accurate shot to make up for whatever detriments that are applied.

I want to see more people's opinions on why only an accuracy hit would be a good balancing factor for something that could be as powerful as dual wield...

Accuracy is easily raised through food or templating.

Do most of you truly kite at 60m and not think that dual wielding at that range would pretty much is/should/can be possible.

I know we can inject all sorts of "its not real or Its more realistic" blah blah in here...but what I want to know is for game play/balance purposes, what detriment besides accuracy is viable to make dual wielding something as powerful as possibly doubling your damage? What do you think a good penalty would be...once we get the penalties down. we will then be able to determine what a fair set of bonuses for dual wielding there are.

Is this being discussed for fencers also?

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raz1337 wrote:

Is this being discussed for fencers also?

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Dual Wielding is proposed for both pistoleers & fencers. It's up to the fencers to discuss it in their own forum...which, from what I've seen they aren't doing on the level we are. Who knows when we might see dual wielding, but at least we can discuss it and put together some initial design docs that might help the devs move a little faster on it than they would if they had to come up with everything.

Again, the big reason why I fully support the range limitation on dual wielding is that food can always nullify accuracy pentalties at a distance and could force dual wielding to be overpowered...therefore being subquently nerfed later on.For me,I think the balancing is easy...

Single PistolPistoleer= High Speed, High Accuracy, low damage, wide variety of status effecting attacks.

Dual Wielding Pistoleer = High Speed, High Accuracy (possibly slightly lower than normal, but not by much), and High Damage, no status effecting attacks.

I think of Dual Wielding for Pistoleers the LLC equivalent for Bounty Hunters. Bounty Hunters have all shorts of Pistol & Carbine status attacks. But, if the BH wants to dish out some big damage, he/she can move in with the LLC and hit with an LLCsingle2 for 7k damage (PvE of course). When I read through the votes it looks like people arenot thinking of dual wielding as fitting a void for pistoleers (high damage option) or B) and they aren't seeing that the devs won't implement this unless it gives us a tactical option.

Personally, I'd like to see dual wielding as a somewhat passive skilllike bezerk or CoB. At master pistoleer you get a equipablepistol +1 mod (allowing you to equip two pistols). Even though you are holding two pistols, you only fire with one. When you've applied all the status attacks you want and you're ready to move in and dish out big damage, you hit the /dualwield command. This command would prevent you from using any other attacks and the moment you cross the dual wielding range you lift your second pistol and begin firing. Perhaps while in dual wield status, we also have the access to a few dual wielding specials like a /doublepistolblast that uses 4/5 of our special ability pool (specials will drain from a different pool than HAM post revamp).

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Dharma812 wrote:

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SolrFlare wrote:

OK. Looking at this from a real life perspective and from someone who has done some pistol shooting, if you are holding two guns in your hand, your accuracy and speed is going to go to pot(contrary to the movies). No way you are going to be able to aim good and the recoil of having two guns firing is going to make firing much slower.

But, keeping in mind this is a game based off a fantasy/sci-fi universe:

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Only one comment here.

As with most RL v IG arguments, It is impossible to make comparisons. While I agree that given the RL physics of combustion based projectile weapons the accuracy and speed drop associated with "kick" is significant. However,no one here hashas ever fired an energy based weapon like the ones we use and cannot really make acurate determinations as to how those weapons might behave.

As a result, I think that dicussions about dual weild should be limited to balance issues as opposed to what one might realisticly assume would be the result of such a skill or action.

btw, I know this was a preface to your outline, I just wanted to plug my feeling that balance should always be a greater concern than realism.

Message Edited by Dharma812 on 10-15-2004 02:15 PM

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keep it simple 2 same type pistols they do same dmg as now do same speed as now they just alternate and look damn cool.

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LordMaxx wrote:
What do you think a good penalty would be...

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1. Decreased hit percentage


2. Slower attack speed


3. Increased HAM costs