Pistoleer Archive
Thread: Focus Thread : Balancing Range limitations for Pistoleer, Carbineer and Rifleman.
Short_Timer wrote:
I am more and more convinced that a "sliding scale" of min range caps linked to weapon CL cert is the only viable solution. I'm just really disappointed that it takes a group of pistoleers to point it out to us.
Hmmm I still don't accept any idea of a min range, it just does not work at all.If anything you should have your ranged boosted to 64m. Using badgers idea of lower cert weapons haveing no min and higher cert still leads to a situation where a rifleman would be treated as a second class citizen at close range or in content locations, so in almost all situations.
I do think that specials should be range limited though - so roots less then 35m
as for the ALR looking at a current rifle issue which has no none loot weapons at the CL 50 level - we probably should tone done the ALR, make it novice rifleman (or gunner orsoldier cert'd)and CL 50 cert.
Message Edited by Ackehece on 06-23-2005 12:14 PM
Short_Timer wrote:Errrrrr, so you maintain that its the ALR and people using it to root at 64m thats the problem?
No.
I maintain that the problem stems from people abusing the extra range of rifles to gain an advantage in PvP that they should not have.
People are obviously going to use the ALR since its the most powerful rifle and requires no specific profession to use. If there was a CL54 piece of string with a 64m range that did the same damage as the ALR people would be using that.
If rifle range gets capped or 64m range rifles suddenly require profession certs to use people will simply switch to a different weapon that gives them the same advantage.
DomMantell wrote:
Short_Timer wrote:
Errrrrr, so you maintain that its the ALR and people using it to root at 64m thats the problem?
No.
I maintain that the problem stems from people abusing the extra range of rifles to gain an advantage in PvP that they should not have.
People are obviously going to use the ALR since its the most powerful rifle and requires no specific profession to use. If there was a CL54 piece of string with a 64m range that did the same damage as the ALR people would be using that.
If rifle range gets capped or 64m range rifles suddenly require profession certs to use people will simply switch to a different weapon that gives them the same advantage.
I'm not so keen on min rangesbut otherwise I agree with Nifty, the specials (particularly stopping shot) are the meat and bones of the issue here. In fact the more I think about it the more I like extending the idea to a 30m range on stopping shot with a 35m range on the advanced version.
Nifty wrote:
Short_Timer wrote:
I am more and more convinced that a "sliding scale" of min range caps linked to weapon CL cert is the only viable solution. I'm just really disappointed that it takes a group of pistoleers to point it out to us.
yer welcome. We accept beer as payment.
but it has to be good beer.
(btw, I like the sliding scale idea too. But I still think specials should have ranges on them too. That eliminates the problem of the 65m root followed by the 65m nukes, as well as the point blank nukes.)
The ALR has no limitations as far as range is concerned so why not use it?
Why use any other gun at all?
That is the issue at hand.
BadgerSmaker wrote:The ALR has no limitations as far as range is concerned so why not use it?
Why use any other gun at all?
That is the issue at hand.
So instead of nerfing rifleman because other professions are abusing the range of rifles, why not make the ALR a master rifleman cert.
Change it so that ALL rifles with ranges over 40m require a specific rifleman skill.
Commando weapons already require commando skills to use to ensure that you can't whip out a flame thrower or rocket launcher to take advantage of the AoE (and in at least 1 case, the 64m range), the same change could be easily made for pretty much every weapon above CL40.
DomMantell wrote:
BadgerSmaker wrote:
The ALR has no limitations as far as range is concerned so why not use it?
Why use any other gun at all?
That is the issue at hand.
So instead of nerfing rifleman because other professions are abusing the range of rifles, why not make the ALR a master rifleman cert.
Change it so that ALL rifles with ranges over 40m require a specific rifleman skill.
Commando weapons already require commando skills to use to ensure that you can't whip out a flame thrower or rocket launcher to take advantage of the AoE (and in at least 1 case, the 64m range), the same change could be easily made for pretty much every weapon above CL40.
I think it's because you won't limit the dabbling in pistols for stopping shot then, only in rifles as these are just part of the equation.
Gift.
This isn't the NERF RIFLEMAN!!!ONEONEELEVEN!!! thread.
We are looking for ways to balance all three professions out.
BadgerSmaker wrote:
This isn't the NERF RIFLEMAN!!!ONEONEELEVEN!!! thread.
Well damn!
We are looking for ways to balance all three professions out.
Speaking of which no carbineers seem to have joined in, which seems a pity, any here?
Gift.
A friend just alerted me to this thread. I've seen the number 55m thrown around a bit here as the max range for carbines - this is not true. The maximum range for the vast majority of our weapons is 50m. I also saw someone suggest above that Carbineer should get specials that stick states. While this was our role pre-CU, we no longer have anything resembling that. Carbineer post-CU is all about posture/speed control (aka KDs and snares) and damage. Our correspondent has told us time and time again not to think of Carbines in pre-CU terms, so we might as well forget about Carbineers as appliers of states. Pistoleers clearly have that role now, such as it is.
The subject matter at hand is tricky. Obviously it's a really sensitive issue. But it also is mainly an issue between pistoleers and riflemen. By the very definition of the discussion (range limitations), we fall squarely in the middle and are torn between the two sides. That might be why you don't see so many carbineers in this thread. I'm still mulling over the possibilities in my mind, but so far I like the idea of an accuracy penalty outside of "ideal" ranges, as well as the specials-specific range limitations. I don't think anybody should be forced to equip a pistol to fight at close range, or a rifle to fight at long range. The trick is balancing those accuracy penalties enough that they matter and can't be wholly overcome by foods and other enhancements.
Message Edited by TheSillyOne on 06-23-2005 07:21 PM