Pistoleer Archive

Thread: Discussion Thread: Dual Wielding Pistols

LinkForce
Sat Oct 23, 2004 5:00 am
#79

dual pistols should allow you to wield to pistols (same or different) that you have certification for. Dual pistols should fire very fast, allowing you to fire any special,but with a decent accuracy loss,and maybe some damage loss.
NaKitNa
Sat Oct 23, 2004 8:08 am
#80


Dual Wielding


Master Ability


Mechanics:

In essence it makes one weapon out of two weapons. Everything adds into a single number except range numbers. Speed (before speed mods), accuracy (positive or negative) ham costs, damage, and AP! This would give us the ability to effect higher level mobs. more effectively. Pistols must be of same type but same serials would be a little much as no one would be able to dual wield DE-10's which I personally am most anxious for


Pros: Higher Damage, AP 2 possible with proper weapons, potentially better accuracy (with weapons having positive accuracy modifiers)


Cons: Slower Speed, Potentially worsened accuracy (see above), higher ham costs,


Strategies:

There could be all sorts of different types of dual wielders..

Taking two light pistols such as two Scouts would still be lightening quick because of their low speeds added would still be close to 2.. and coule be capped back out with current speed mods... but would still be lacking AP.


On the opposite end you could have the much slower dual hand cannons.. like two DE-10. As slow as a rifle with speeds stacking up possibly past 8 (my krayted DE-10 is a 4.3 spd .. so two of those would be 8.6) ... with speed mods almost certainly unable to cap but significantly higher damage (mine is 306... so it would be 612)and AP2!


Switching out those two in the middle of combat would almost mean death considering the time it would take to equip two weapons.

LordMaxx
Sat Oct 23, 2004 4:01 pm
#81

Ok Design doc part has been updated to reflect the first poll...Ill work on the next part tonight



Maxx Wolfe
"I...I...I...I...Im not your steppin' stone!" - The Monkees
Leader of Team Desert Eagle and Founder of PATGWNIWNU a offshoot of RATGWNIWNU!
Chilastra/Valcyn/TC
LordMaxx
Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:04 am
#82

Ok, lets get part of the bad out of the way...Do you guys feel that Accuracy should be greatly affected?

Currently when running we take an accuracy hit, and we get a bonus while kneeling...how should accuracy be affected...There are two ways

One is just a modifier -Something and how big should it be?

Another way is limiting the range...since you are dual wielding you may not be effective at all greater than say 20 meters...should one or both of these be a hindrance.

The range limitation would appeal to the devs in the fact that they want dual wielding to be a tactical decsion and not the thing you always do like spamming healthshot2 is now adays

whatcha think? We'll start a poll soon based on more popular suggestions to this thread.



Maxx Wolfe
"I...I...I...I...Im not your steppin' stone!" - The Monkees
Leader of Team Desert Eagle and Founder of PATGWNIWNU a offshoot of RATGWNIWNU!
Chilastra/Valcyn/TC
Rockhurst
Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:39 am
#83






LordMaxx wrote:
...Do you guys feel that Accuracy should be greatly affected?


Another way is limiting the range...since you are dual wielding you may not be effective at all greater than say 20 meters...should one or both of these be a hindrance.

The range limitation would appeal to the devs in the fact that they want dual wielding to be a tactical decsion and not the thing you always do like spamming healthshot2 is now adays




I like dual wielding as a tactical decision. It should be used when you get up close and want to dish out big damage. Originally, I said that tactical decision should be driven by huge hits to accuracy outside of close range (20 meters or whatever distance we choose). However, if we limited dual wielding to only within a given range that would essentially have the same effect, so that works for me. If we are limited in the range we should do it, I would say any hit to accuracy would have to be small. After all, we should be most accurate at point blank range so I don't see why we need a bit hit to accuracy. Plus, if we took an accuracy hit too large, we might do less DPS dual wielding up close than we would with one pistol at full accuracy.


In summary: Limited range; no to little accuracy hit.





Master Bounty Hunter / Master Pistoleer
--Force Enhanced--
WesBelden
Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:07 am
#84






Rockhurst wrote:







LordMaxx wrote:
...Do you guys feel that Accuracy should be greatly affected?


Another way is limiting the range...since you are dual wielding you may not be effective at all greater than say 20 meters...should one or both of these be a hindrance.

The range limitation would appeal to the devs in the fact that they want dual wielding to be a tactical decsion and not the thing you always do like spamming healthshot2 is now adays





I like dual wielding as a tactical decision. It should be used when you get up close and want to dish out big damage. Originally, I said that tactical decision should be driven by huge hits to accuracy outside of close range (20 meters or whatever distance we choose). However, if we limited dual wielding to only within a given range that would essentially have the same effect, so that works for me. If we are limited in the range we should do it, I would say any hit to accuracy would have to be small. After all, we should be most accurate at point blank range so I don't see why we need a bit hit to accuracy. Plus, if we took an accuracy hit too large, we might do less DPS dual wielding up close than we would with one pistol at full accuracy.


In summary: Limited range; no to little accuracy hit.








I agree.


I feel that if dual wield has a hard capped limit on it, then there shouldn't be an accuracey penalty. As Rochhurst says, it should be the Pistoleer's way of hitting hard when they need to (think of a rat backed into a corner .. only, prettier and far cooler.. yehhhhhs).

Sharp, fast and accurate when fairly close; Mad, bad and painfulwhen very close




=======================================================================
WesBelden the last Smuggler Correspondent.
Who's the more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him?
Blueliner
Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:12 pm
#85






DarthNkari wrote:
Allowing us to fire 2pistols at the exact same time would double our damage and thats a little too strong. But itcould allowus to alternate firethem for an increased speed in some way, possibly exceeding the speed cap in some small way.







This is what doubletap should be changed to and moved up to a master pistolleer skill.




EPiC - CIA -
Novice Bounty Hunter/ Novice Pistoleer

LordMaxx
Tue Oct 26, 2004 12:03 am
#86

And a hefty penalty it would be because at that point you are within range of Melee. So the cost better be worth it...



Maxx Wolfe
"I...I...I...I...Im not your steppin' stone!" - The Monkees
Leader of Team Desert Eagle and Founder of PATGWNIWNU a offshoot of RATGWNIWNU!
Chilastra/Valcyn/TC
Kevie
Tue Oct 26, 2004 3:17 am
#87


i think one ofthe biggest misconceptions with ideas in this thread is that there will still be a "speed cap" after the combat balance........ given that the de-10 is designed for post-combat balance changes, and that it is supposed to be "the best of the best" for pistoleers....... we can assume that pistols will be much slower than they are now, but that everyone else will be much MUCH slower


the speed cap was never supposed to be easily attainable in the first place, but just didn't end up that way......

the devs have said that pistols need to be the fastest, and not that we need to speed up, just that everyone else needs to slow down.......

basically the speed equation WILL change..... and so many more things about the game will change also, and i, for one, hope the new ham cost changes go into affect too, that would help us and carbineers out a LOT

Message Edited by Kevie on 10-26-2004 06:19 AM




Oaceen Tunaisea (Ow-seen Two-nay-see), Kettemoor
There is no command, mood, chat type: smuggle
"#*% damnit, no. Caboose; I'm not cold, I don't want a hotdog, and if you
put mustard in my #&$^ing sheets again I'm gonna kill you." - Tucker
-

Jaguarrr
Tue Oct 26, 2004 6:10 am
#88

I say no to a hard capped range. Accuracy may drop down the more far away your target is.


I never ever want ´to be in melee range when dual wielding (or /meleedefense2 gets an areaeffect while dual wielding)


I so hope they change the melee attack ranges. Ever made a /lunge2 at 20m? it is insane that that works. 1/4-1/3 of max ranged combat is a death zone to ranged people.



We couldn't play SWG without Tiggs. Now we can =)
LERepairDroid
Tue Oct 26, 2004 8:02 am
#89

I am just going to say it: I want duel wielding pistols because it LOOKS COOL. Is there really any other reason you would want it? Mechanically, it would just make you less effective in combat. But looking cool is a big bonus!
Rockhurst
Tue Oct 26, 2004 8:20 am
#90






LERepairDroid wrote:
I am just going to say it: I want duel wielding pistols because it LOOKS COOL. Is there really any other reason you would want it? Mechanically, it would just make you less effective in combat. But looking cool is a big bonus!



If the devs are going to put dual wielding in the game, they might as well put mechanics behind it to make it actually do something vs. just looking cool. I don't think there's any pistoleer that would argue dual wielding looks cool, but we want more from in than that. The devs time is pretty precious,so if they are going to implement something into the game like dual wielding, it has to be for more than just looks. If our normalrole as pistoleers is going to be high speed, low damage, and status attacks; implementing dual wielding as an tactical option to get in close (melee range) and dish out some big damage at the risk of taking damage, isn't that something you'd like to see as well?




Master Bounty Hunter / Master Pistoleer
--Force Enhanced--
LordMaxx
Tue Oct 26, 2004 5:07 pm
#91

say there was to be a hard cap...what would be a fair estimate? Ideal range of the weapon? or something simple like 30m or 25m....outside lunge2 range...but remember we are close ranged specialists (or will be) so this will be designed as our infighting technique...this is what will hopefully give us an edge over melee'ers or at least make us comparable to them...for that there must be a justification...25m or 30m which sounds more reasonable? I believe ideal range on many of our weapons are within 20m...



Maxx Wolfe
"I...I...I...I...Im not your steppin' stone!" - The Monkees
Leader of Team Desert Eagle and Founder of PATGWNIWNU a offshoot of RATGWNIWNU!
Chilastra/Valcyn/TC
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