Pistoleer Archive
Thread: Issues List...time to think of Whats wrong or What you would like to see. Updated 10/08
Dookseid
Sun Nov 28, 2004 1:45 am
#79
What about balancing pistoleer by adding another line past master? I know this will probably not happen but it would allow pistoleers to take say a line that increases melee damage mitigation or a line that increases offense even more to open up a new weapon or two? They have proven that this can happen by opening up the force slots, and this would keep the bh's and smugglers from persuing pistoleer further as they would have to give up something to get the points to move up the line...
anyway, just a thought.... take it for what it's worth
sknomad
Mon Nov 29, 2004 1:44 am
#80
Irxoti wrote:
Sure, Steven Segal would disarm you/break your neck/ say a stupid one liner when he's three feet in front of you.....but....what's he gonna do staring down the barrel of a gun 8m away?Message Edited by Irxoti on 10-27-2004 09:23 PM
hmm.. maybe equip his vk, walk another 16m away, and beat you into submission from the other side of the street?
a friend of mine has a vk with +27m range.. it's great, his effective range exceeds mine.. lol
KraytDragonMan
Mon Nov 29, 2004 8:59 pm
#81
sknomad wrote:
Irxoti wrote:
Sure, Steven Segal would disarm you/break your neck/ say a stupid one liner when he's three feet in front of you.....but....what's he gonna do staring down the barrel of a gun 8m away?
Message Edited by Irxoti on 10-27-2004 09:23 PM
hmm.. maybe equip his vk, walk another 16m away, and beat you into submission from the other side of the street?
a friend of mine has a vk with +27m range.. it's great, his effective range exceeds mine.. lol
+27m range? All that means is that one of his range mods (chance to hit) is that much, so forget the +27m, it's just +27. Also, the longest range a melee player can attack from, no matter what, is 20m (Lunge 1/2). Unless of course there is lag.
Snutwutty
Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:13 am
#82
Speed mod is something we don't need to worry about in this thread, there is no way the current broken formulae will be allowed to continue. As for states and KD, carbineer is already set to specialisein those.
Kip-Up, Roll and Dive shots need to be useful,such as boostour defence temporarily, or use them to clear states. The point of the pistoleer is to fight amongst the enemy at very close range to disrupt them. We need the abilties to debuff groups and defend ourselves at slightly longer ranges, but be deadly up close.
Dev team would do well to watch some John Woo flicks before attempting the design docs for the pistoleer part of combat upgrade.
SeraCohw
Tue Dec 21, 2004 8:10 pm
#83
maybe if no wepon hit its cap at master prof but that with mbh comando and pitol would hit ther max to make up for rifles having the ability to have so much damagethere for they never hit there cap. but that is just my 2 cents
snash0902
Fri Dec 24, 2004 5:28 am
#84
I may be completely off track here, sorry if someone has already posted this, but how about a AP2 or go wild and have a AP3 mega pistol? I mean the DE-10 is not a common pistol, compared to a DX2 or FWG5 etc, so why not make it a AP2 or a AP3?
And, how about getting all the abilities from BH and put them onto MP but leave the extra speed and accuracy on BH?
In conclusion, have a better AP pistol and all abilities from BH to MP and then we really would be a profession to be reckoned with! 
Well, I may get totally flamed for this but thats my personal opinion anyway.
PalpatinesHope
Fri Jan 07, 2005 5:14 pm
#85
I agree with most everything said here regarding specials. Master specials don't exist. The pure basics that should be at least great for PvE like BodyShot3 are broken or just poorly written. A dizzy/kd with PistolMelee2 would be great (and NOT too much of a gift!! Not to jump on the poor TKM's again because I use it in one template of mine, but they can target any pool they want, have a dizzy/KD, and meditate is just jive man for the points spent on it...lol). In short, with bh pistols in the template, I do more damage simply spamming eye shot than stacking every bleed in the book to include a modified republic.
I'd like to see (and this is really for all weapon professions) the ability to really use every gun that's craftable. I know it's been mentioned before, but some of the coolest and most "StarWarsy" looking guns are pure trash to a master; i.e. tangle pistol, striker, THE DL-44!!!! The scatter looks like a hair dryer, the DX2 looks like a shoebox with a nipple on it, bah.
While I realize that the launcheris aCommandopistol, I personally had a few points to burn and with Smuggler already in the temp, why not pick up a different gun cert? The launcher should be light apimo. Hell, even medium with average speed of 5.0 or something or delay between specials with it.
I personally would not like to see dual weilding if everything else were fixed.My main reason being thatI've alwayssupported pistolstaking such comments as "you suck for using a pistol"or "get a real gun" in stride. And, if dual weilding were introduced, every one of those bastards that ran their mouths would be jumping on the bandwagon. Stick to your TKM and Rifleman and leave my beloved pistol profession out of your "uber", "rox0r Jo0", template please.
Can I please get a cool theigh holster like Han had?
Can the lootable parts for a DE-10 NOT be in a placed camped by the heaviest hitters in the game so I can't get one, but need one, and have to be taken for millions of credits to buy one?
But one thing that really slays me is all of the "wild west" titles like Desperado, Gunslinger, etc. C'mon, is this Star Wars or what? If I wanted to be Clint Eastwood, I'd donate my hard earned cash to development efforts foran "O.K. Corral" MMO. Just me though! Thanks for listening
Lass Orion
&
Sax Meridian
Molikore
Sun Jan 16, 2005 12:20 pm
#86
That statement sums it up right there.
BigLands wrote:
Finally, and most importantly, pistoleer needs to be a class in it's own right and not the dabblers delight.
RenKesson
Sun Jan 16, 2005 5:53 pm
#87
Snutwutty wrote:
Kip-Up, Roll and Dive shots need to be useful,such as boostour defence temporarily, or use them to clear states.
Those attacks DO have uses... If you're forced to kneeling, and the opponent sticks a dizzy on you, you can't get up or you'll fall over, right? WRONG.
Kickup, Roll, and Dive Shots all allow you to change posture even when Dizzy. Useful? I think so. One of those tightly-kept secrets most Pistoleers don't know about when they whine. *wink*
Our strengths aren't (and never will be) in our DPS or our uber Defense mods. Our versatility and ingenuity have and always will be our most valued skills.
x-en
Sun Jan 16, 2005 9:55 pm
#88
Well...working specials would be a good start.
and as far as whats important to me id say
1.speed (i think almost everyone likes speed...)
2.states (a dizzy attack would be really nice)
3.defenses (could care less theyre nice as is)
4.damage types (we seem to have a nice selection already...)
and as far as whats important to me id say
1.speed (i think almost everyone likes speed...)
2.states (a dizzy attack would be really nice)
3.defenses (could care less theyre nice as is)
4.damage types (we seem to have a nice selection already...)
Nifty
Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:14 am
#89
1. Reliance on other professions to improve accuracy, speed and special attacks.
2. Speed formula (CURB might fix this though.) This also includes damage output over time versus other professions.
3. Specials need to be balanced/fixed.
Ice-Cold
Mon Jan 17, 2005 12:20 pm
#90
We need Stances and Animations we can change for our Characters... like KotOR2's Lightsaber stances 
also stances such as how you old your gun i.e. upside down, tilted. Animations too.. such as spinning a gun around your finger etc.
also stances such as how you old your gun i.e. upside down, tilted. Animations too.. such as spinning a gun around your finger etc.
sknomad
Tue Jan 18, 2005 12:01 am
#91
strictly on a 'technical' standpoint..
I don't want to compare pistoleer to fencer or any other melee prof, but it is kind of unavoidable, being that it is such a short range profession..
pistoleer is the fencer of ranged right? except fencers can still wack stuff for 3k dmg (pve) pretty easily with a stun baton.. pistoleers top out at around 1600 dmg (pve) with a 200 dmg pistol (which is about average damage for the average player who doesn't have millions to blow on guns that decay in 2 weeks of playing.)
fencers have probably the 2nd best defense tree in the game (melee/ranged)
-- pistoleers don't have this at all - the fact that pistoleers only get 45 melee defense and *7* ranged defense is a joke, and yet a fencer gets 74 melee, *69* ranged.. not to mention the melee toughness, cob, and useful skills from novice brawler..
considering that our effective range is within about 8m of melee's effective range, good luck gauging that properly with a little bit of lag..
On top of the defensive problems, pistoleers suffer from low damage, no states other than bleeds that are negated by buff regen rates, and the least speed of any ranged profession. This is something I seriously have never understood.. should not a pistol be faster than any other gun? it is the lowest damage weapon, and should have *some* advantage. I'm not sure, but I think pistoleer is probably the lowest dps combat profession...
If pistoleer is to be fixed, it is going to take more than just tweaking. As you said, since 3 other professions can utilize our skills (bh/comando/smuggler)you can't just up and boost the damage without making all 3 of those professions super strong.
It would be easier if the devs just took all the professions, scrapped them, and started over, but that is unlikely to happen - established players would have a hissy fit. So instead, I suppose we will have everything tweaked in the curb update.. and likely still be unbalanced. call me a pessimist... but when pistoleer has been broken for as long as it has.. w/o any fixes.. well.. heh.
Basically the devs need to figure out what our role is... is it infighter? if so, give us melee/ranged defenses on par with fencer, and some melee mitigation. If that's not the role they want pistoleer to play, then nerf melee ranges to under 6m, maybe double that for lunge2.. and when the melee profs cry about not being able to counter kiting.. tell them to pick up scout for the terrain negotiation, and hide around buildings. Melee profs should be mostly defensive, while ranged are mostly offensive - imo. As it is.. pistoleers are neither.
Pistoleer abilities have to be stacked with bh/smuggler to be effective (mainly because all the native specials are broken/useless).. If pistoleer were to become more of a defensive profession (more geared to melee - defenses/mitigation/states/kd that works/etc) then you wouldn't have to worry too much about stacking it with bh or smuggler or whatever (for offense) - both of those professions are pretty much defenseless as it is, and I doubt the pistoleer abilities will be boosted over what a bh gets (master bh takes 169 points, it's specials SHOULD be better). Pistoleers should have the option of picking up a secondary profession to enhance their abilities, not manditory as it is now.
Right now, I feel as if pistoleer is the secondary profession, to enhance bh/smuggler's skills, not a stand alone profession - and I would like to see it reversed. Give pistoleers a role other than accessory, bait or fodder.
I don't want to compare pistoleer to fencer or any other melee prof, but it is kind of unavoidable, being that it is such a short range profession..
pistoleer is the fencer of ranged right? except fencers can still wack stuff for 3k dmg (pve) pretty easily with a stun baton.. pistoleers top out at around 1600 dmg (pve) with a 200 dmg pistol (which is about average damage for the average player who doesn't have millions to blow on guns that decay in 2 weeks of playing.)
fencers have probably the 2nd best defense tree in the game (melee/ranged)
-- pistoleers don't have this at all - the fact that pistoleers only get 45 melee defense and *7* ranged defense is a joke, and yet a fencer gets 74 melee, *69* ranged.. not to mention the melee toughness, cob, and useful skills from novice brawler..
considering that our effective range is within about 8m of melee's effective range, good luck gauging that properly with a little bit of lag..
On top of the defensive problems, pistoleers suffer from low damage, no states other than bleeds that are negated by buff regen rates, and the least speed of any ranged profession. This is something I seriously have never understood.. should not a pistol be faster than any other gun? it is the lowest damage weapon, and should have *some* advantage. I'm not sure, but I think pistoleer is probably the lowest dps combat profession...
If pistoleer is to be fixed, it is going to take more than just tweaking. As you said, since 3 other professions can utilize our skills (bh/comando/smuggler)you can't just up and boost the damage without making all 3 of those professions super strong.
It would be easier if the devs just took all the professions, scrapped them, and started over, but that is unlikely to happen - established players would have a hissy fit. So instead, I suppose we will have everything tweaked in the curb update.. and likely still be unbalanced. call me a pessimist... but when pistoleer has been broken for as long as it has.. w/o any fixes.. well.. heh.
Basically the devs need to figure out what our role is... is it infighter? if so, give us melee/ranged defenses on par with fencer, and some melee mitigation. If that's not the role they want pistoleer to play, then nerf melee ranges to under 6m, maybe double that for lunge2.. and when the melee profs cry about not being able to counter kiting.. tell them to pick up scout for the terrain negotiation, and hide around buildings. Melee profs should be mostly defensive, while ranged are mostly offensive - imo. As it is.. pistoleers are neither.
Pistoleer abilities have to be stacked with bh/smuggler to be effective (mainly because all the native specials are broken/useless).. If pistoleer were to become more of a defensive profession (more geared to melee - defenses/mitigation/states/kd that works/etc) then you wouldn't have to worry too much about stacking it with bh or smuggler or whatever (for offense) - both of those professions are pretty much defenseless as it is, and I doubt the pistoleer abilities will be boosted over what a bh gets (master bh takes 169 points, it's specials SHOULD be better). Pistoleers should have the option of picking up a secondary profession to enhance their abilities, not manditory as it is now.
Right now, I feel as if pistoleer is the secondary profession, to enhance bh/smuggler's skills, not a stand alone profession - and I would like to see it reversed. Give pistoleers a role other than accessory, bait or fodder.
Message Edited by sknomad on 01-18-2005 01:06 AM