Pistoleer Archive
Thread: Focus Thread : Balancing Range limitations for Pistoleer, Carbineer and Rifleman.
Ackehece wrote:
BadgerSmaker wrote:
Players have ranged defence mods, mobs dont. I'd say the misses are due to that rather than range.
bbzzzt - wrong accuracy definitely plays an effect at close range. Rifleman accuracy does drop when atclose range(has been stated since the cu in the Cor forums).
Thanks for that mature contribution.
BadgerSmaker wrote:
Ackehece wrote:
BadgerSmaker wrote:
Players have ranged defence mods, mobs dont. I'd say the misses are due to that rather than range.
bbzzzt - wrong accuracy definitely plays an effect at close range. Rifleman accuracy does drop when atclose range(has been stated since the cu in the Cor forums).
Thanks for that mature contribution.
- Rifle -little slower than presently
- Carbine - no change
- Pistol - little faster than presently
2. Stopping shot isspecial.Make max range on this move35m, regardless what weapon it's used with
Problem solved?
raider7734 wrote:
1. Slight changes to weapon hindrances to affectmovement speeds:
- Rifle -little slower than presently
- Carbine - no change
- Pistol - little faster than presently
2. Stopping shot isspecial.Make max range on this move35m, regardless what weapon it's used with
Problem solved?
1) not neededas all rifleman are already slower then carbs who are slower then pistoleers.
2) definitely a must probably put mezs in the same category as well, same with aoes should be limited to automatic weapons only (as per descriptions)
BeWary wrote:
Would someone please explain to the riflemen that they could still equip a pistol at close range and be just as effective as we are with a rifle at long range right now? FFS they act like it's some kind of sin to have to switch to a weapon outside your primary class.
Actually it is complete different, see the above post.
The current mindset isit's just fine toexpect us to use rifles for longranged combat, but no way in hell shouldanyoneever be forced to use a pistol at close range. We are back to being theredheaded stepchild of weapons. Lowest top end, lowest range and now you don't even need to be using a pistol to use our specials. So, why pistol at all? To bolster your abilities with a weapon that actually does damage? We are stacker fuel again.
again... read the above.
The proffskills arefixed butour guns still blow when compared to anything else ( with the exception of commando weapons, those guys got boned in the DPS dept.)If there isn't a clear reason to use them, why includepistols at all? Why not just have our entire skill tree just grant specials and generalized mods and rename it "Weaponeer" so we can finally just get pistols out of the game instead of wasting everyones time with a "second class" weapon.
Pistoleer role is CC not nuker so your weapons will be weaker but you last longer in a fight. You may not do as much in a single hit but your dps over time will be the same or higher due to less action cost on specials and the fact you can break combat at will with roots.
Rifleman role is Nuker not CC so we are glass cannons - we take our shot and then if we can't control aggro (something we can't do unless we are pistoleer or some other hybrid) we die.
Ackehece wrote:
BeWary wrote:
Would someone please explain to the riflemen that they could still equip a pistol at close range and be just as effective as we are with a rifle at long range right now? FFS they act like it's some kind of sin to have to switch to a weapon outside your primary class.
Actually it is complete different, see the above post.
The current mindset isit's just fine toexpect us to use rifles for longranged combat, but no way in hell shouldanyoneever be forced to use a pistol at close range. We are back to being theredheaded stepchild of weapons. Lowest top end, lowest range and now you don't even need to be using a pistol to use our specials. So, why pistol at all? To bolster your abilities with a weapon that actually does damage? We are stacker fuel again.
again... read the above.
The proffskills arefixed butour guns still blow when compared to anything else ( with the exception of commando weapons, those guys got boned in the DPS dept.)If there isn't a clear reason to use them, why includepistols at all? Why not just have our entire skill tree just grant specials and generalized mods and rename it "Weaponeer" so we can finally just get pistols out of the game instead of wasting everyones time with a "second class" weapon.
Pistoleer role is CC not nuker so your weapons will be weaker but you last longer in a fight. You may not do as much in a single hit but your dps over time will be the same or higher due to less action cost on specials and the fact you can break combat at will with roots.
Rifleman role is Nuker not CC so we are glass cannons - we take our shot and then if we can't control aggro (something we can't do unless we are pistoleer or some other hybrid) we die.
unfortunately this is untrue. I have absolutely nothing from the rifle trees not even in marksman but I still get better dps with a rifle. As for accuracy at short range, I'm not seeing any penalty at all. I've tested it with my pistoleer who has 198 accuracy with a rifle and my husband's rifleman. Perhaps once you get to a certain level of accuracy the penalty isn't enough to be noticable due to the whole diminishing returns thing. I'm not sure but I blieve your point is invalid because #1 we don't have the moves to be effective as a crowd control proffession and #2 if I'm just as effective with a rifle equiped but with more damage, why would I use a pistol.
this is the question we need to get solved. Why in the hell would anyone in this game actually use a pistol other than personal preference? I am just as if not more effective with a rifle equiped than i am with a pistol equiped and I have nothing at all from even the marksman rifle trees.
TheSillyOne wrote:
Ackehece wrote:
BeWary wrote:
Would someone please explain to the riflemen that they could still equip a pistol at close range and be just as effective as we are with a rifle at long range right now? FFS they act like it's some kind of sin to have to switch to a weapon outside your primary class.
Actually it is complete different, see the above post.
The current mindset isit's just fine toexpect us to use rifles for longranged combat, but no way in hell shouldanyoneever be forced to use a pistol at close range. We are back to being theredheaded stepchild of weapons. Lowest top end, lowest range and now you don't even need to be using a pistol to use our specials. So, why pistol at all? To bolster your abilities with a weapon that actually does damage? We are stacker fuel again.
again... read the above.
The proffskills arefixed butour guns still blow when compared to anything else ( with the exception of commando weapons, those guys got boned in the DPS dept.)If there isn't a clear reason to use them, why includepistols at all? Why not just have our entire skill tree just grant specials and generalized mods and rename it "Weaponeer" so we can finally just get pistols out of the game instead of wasting everyones time with a "second class" weapon.
Pistoleer role is CC not nuker so your weapons will be weaker but you last longer in a fight. You may not do as much in a single hit but your dps over time will be the same or higher due to less action cost on specials and the fact you can break combat at will with roots.
Rifleman role is Nuker not CC so we are glass cannons - we take our shot and then if we can't control aggro (something we can't do unless we are pistoleer or some other hybrid) we die.
unfortunately this is untrue. I have absolutely nothing from the rifle trees not even in marksman but I still get better dps with a rifle. As for accuracy at short range, I'm not seeing any penalty at all. I've tested it with my pistoleer who has 198 accuracy with a rifle and my husband's rifleman. Perhaps once you get to a certain level of accuracy the penalty isn't enough to be noticable due to the whole diminishing returns thing. I'm not sure but I blieve your point is invalid because #1 we don't have the moves to be effective as a crowd control proffession and #2 if I'm just as effective with a rifle equiped but with more damage, why would I use a pistol.
you have more moves then we do for crowd control ^_^. it is not untrue as I said rifleman are nukers... if you use a rifle you are nuking. Any crowd control we gain is from other professions.
and if you are just as effective with a rifle with no rifle mods thenthat is not a rifleman issue that is a pistoleer issue.
the penalty is no big enough at min range I think they did the same thing they did with your special to reduce speed of attack - a set amount vs a % which would make more sense. Testing shows rifleman are about 15% less accurate closer in then at range for basic rifle accuracy skill (no stacking) with general stacking it does not show at all.
this is the question we need to get solved. Why in the hell would anyone in this game actually use a pistol other than personal preference? I am just as if not more effective with a rifle equiped than i am with a pistol equiped and I have nothing at all from even the marksman rifle trees.
As I said before in many threads Mezs and Roots need to be range limited to pistols and AOE attacks to automatic weapons. This would lead to some differentiation and allow your class to be what it is supposed to be.
BadgerSmaker wrote:
Players have ranged defence mods, mobs dont. I'd say the misses are due to that rather than range.
that is actually wrong -accuracy definitely does plays an effect at close range. Rifleman accuracy does drop when atclose range(has been stated since the cu in the Cor forums).
The range accuracy bands still do exist they are just less obvious now as it is no longer stated on the weapon.
Message Edited by Ackehece on 06-22-2005 03:53 PM
Thanks for your input, Ack... is much appreciated.
I have issue with your idea that switching to a weapon that is not your primary skill reduces your combat level.
I was challenged the other night to take down a Gorax with a rifle when I only have Pistoleer mods, and I did it unarmoured (electrolyte drain from CM > all melee mobs).
Thats not CL15, I'd like to see a cl15 that can solo a gorax unarmoured. In fact I swear I killed it faster with a standard ALR than a Krayt DL44XT.
My idea was to change some rifles so that range is capped on them.
Ackehece wrote:
As I said before in many threads Mezs and Roots need to be range limited to pistols and AOE attacks to automatic weapons. This would lead to some differentiation and allow your class to be what it is supposed to be.
and if you are just as effective with a rifle with no rifle mods thenthat is not a rifleman issue that is a pistoleer issue.
I've got to say I think the range limitation should be special specific not weapon specific, and make the ranged accuracy mods more noticeable. Putting huge deadzones on weapons is going to mean the highest damaging equipment you have will be unusable in many dungeons, it will also heavily favour stopping shot FOTM templates to extend the time you can use high powered weapons thus limiting player choice.
I'm also very uncomfortable with tinkering with someone else's prof, especially in such a fundamental way, let us see how range limited specials work out first, if we change too much all at once we're going to potentially break what needs a minor fix and upset a lot of people in the process.
Moveing on, I do agree that changing to a ALR does not drop CL in anyway, I too can equal/out damage my pistols with an ALR