Pistoleer Archive
Thread: The Way Dual Wield should be Implemented
ThisIsTheMatrix
Tue Aug 03, 2004 7:50 pm
#53
Im not against spreading it out, I contemplated it far into my thought before going against it. But the game seems to be made for dabblers. I mean yea you can get just grips 4, but like i said before, you wouldnt have the accuracy/speed/geo cert/specials. All you would have is body shot 3, some dodge, and the ability to wield 2 republic blasters. To me it wouldnt seem like many people would go just for that line anyway unless they plan to master. But it still saves up some skill points for a BH who would like to duel wield the BH's scatter, but not be totally pistols.
Jacella
Wed Aug 04, 2004 3:05 am
#55
Interresting concepts, but not meaning any offense...completely unbalanced. First off, commando's don't need any help..and the launcher pistol shouldn't be concidered a true pistol. If you kill with it you get heavy weapon's xp, not pistols xp. So let's leave the poor nerfed commandos out of this equation. BH's need any boost they can get...Pub 9 did some great things for them, but they are still getting smoked by TKM/Carbineers or TKM/Pistoleers. But that doesn't mean that the Dual Wield needs to go under Marksman. Dual wield should be either a Smuggler skill...or, more fittingly, a Master Pistoleer thing. The way the damage would be applied would be pistol1+1/2 pistol2. Accuracy should be hit hugely, but shots like multi-target or a fast spray type that increases speed, but no damage bonuses. Personally, I think that dual wielding is a silly idea, and only looked cool when Jenga Fett did it...but he lost his head.
Jacella
Imperial Investigator
TKM/Pistoleer/Smuggler
former: weaponsmith, commando, brawler, marksman, Doc, medic, dancer, scout, droid engineer, artisan, ranger, image designer, swordsman, fencer....and hologrinder
Jacella
Imperial Investigator
TKM/Pistoleer/Smuggler
former: weaponsmith, commando, brawler, marksman, Doc, medic, dancer, scout, droid engineer, artisan, ranger, image designer, swordsman, fencer....and hologrinder
ThisIsTheMatrix
Wed Aug 04, 2004 7:38 am
#56
I just added the launcher because it is indeed a pistol, soo I figured why not just add it in to give commandos something. This isnt a final thing, just the first phase, the launcher doesnt need to stay in. Secondly I dont see how smuggler should get this skill, If they add in a pistol at novice for them, then put in the same position of a scatter, duel wield at master, then need to get some Duel Wield + skills to use it without penalty. No way it should have any mods in smuggler tho. Just like their shouldnt be any in BH, just the cert for their guns at master, then all the mods in pistoleer, like it should be. Then if you mean by "duel wielding going under marksman" that you get mods in the marksman portion and the ability to duel wield a CDEF and the other low guns there. I dont see the problem with that, no one is going to dabble in marksman for the acclaimed CDEF dual wielding. I already fixed the part and decided to have DE-10 dual wield at master pistoleer, and after a long quest. Long quests should be given to every profession to complete for a certain weapon cert/schematics etc...I didnt cover the damage much, and I dont see why accuracy should be hit hugely. I mean with the system I created, you will not be able to dual wield anything without the cert, then you need the +mods to counteract the -'s for that gun. The huge hit to accuracy is if say you decide to wield a Scatter with only a +15 mod, and it has a -75 for that gun. Thats a 60 point difference, and you would barely hit anything. But if you have a +75 or more, that means you have trained enough to actually use them without penalty. I mean theres tons of people who dual wielded pistols in movies and such, just because only Jango did doesnt mean he should be the only one who could (not that you said it), but I mean if your going by the movie, then why do i see damm Jedi running all over the starport, I think they should attack Vader now why they have numbers, overwhelm him and then we dont need an Empire Strikes Back or Return of the Jedi. Every profession should have something worth mastering for, and in this game, rarely does a master box reward that player
ThisIsTheMatrix
Wed Aug 04, 2004 7:27 pm
#57
Jacella, definetely I would go for fixing the game. Balancing the professions, and of course get the GCW working, combat revamp nicely smooth. The animations I heard, they got for both fencers/pistoleers. But no rush in adding, Id like to see a nice, fun MMORPG before this. Dual wielding can be a nice added reward for us hard working pistoleers eh 
cheserna
Thu Aug 05, 2004 9:39 pm
#58
on that note, I'd rather see dual wielding as a part of the combat revamp.. and not as an after-thought....
cause if you want it done well... doing it well the first time with the whole picture in mind is the best way to do it...
cause if you want it done well... doing it well the first time with the whole picture in mind is the best way to do it...
ThisIsTheMatrix
Fri Aug 06, 2004 8:00 am
#59
Id want it then too. Each profession should get something like our dual wield.
Joukahainen
Fri Aug 06, 2004 9:19 am
#60
cheserna wrote:
on that note, I'd rather see dual wielding as a part of the combat revamp.. and not as an after-thought....
cause if you want it done well... doing it well the first time with the whole picture in mind is the best way to do it...
I wouldn't count on anything here done right the first time. lol
FearTheGoats
Sun Aug 15, 2004 2:12 pm
#63
I can't really say I think this is a good idea. Mostly for one major reason:
Pistoleers suck, big time.
That's right, we master pistoleers (those of us who don't have the points to put into other professions) are still being left in the dust. BH is already horribly overpowered in 1 line *compared to* a profession that puts an entire tree into pistols. As it stands right now, BH is boiled down to /eyeshot;/eyeshot;/eyeshot;/eyeshot;/eyeshot;/shout i aM t3h pWn!!!1;/deathblow. All this would do is put more power into the hands of a profession that has more then enough... and once again, master pistoleer gets the shaft because, once again, there is absolutely nothing special about mastering it.
All this would do is bring in a giant wave of power to anyone over pistols 2. If the devs are so hell bent on keeping pistoleer broken (body shot 3 still sucks, none of our specials have states, lowest DPS still, can't even take down a 10k HAM mob), something like this would at least bring us up to an acceptable level.
I'm not talking about people who mix smuggler/BH pistol line and everything else, I'm talking about pure pistols 4 and pistoleer here. As it currently stands, master pistoleers (with NOTHING ELSE) are horribly underpowered and in dire need of a DPS boost. All this proposal would do is make all of the template tweakers happy while, once again, giving the shaft to master pistoleers.
The original idea behind dual wield pistols was that it would make the master pistoleer something special, something no other profession could touch unless they grinded out that entire tree. The pistoleers way of telling the smuggler and BH line "this is what happens when you devote yourself completely to the pistol".
Why rob the master pistoleer of that? Haven't they been shafted enough?
Rockhurst
Mon Aug 16, 2004 4:03 pm
#64
ThisIsTheMatrix wrote:
I do not believe that it should be a one-time “cert” at master pistoleer, but a progression through marksman/pistoleer/BH/commando. Agreed. I like having the dual wielding modbe both general andspecific to the type of weapons your wielding. What happens if a player goes over the amount of weiding experience they need for a weapon? My thought on dual wielding is that the dual wielding weapons should be one weapon. In other words, if you have two DE-10's, you don't automatically get to dual wield them. It would take a special schematic to make a pair of DE-10's for dual wielding. Both weapons should have the exact same stats.
Example: A master Bounty Hunter gets the cert to Dual Wield a scatter pistol which is a (-75). This means they need a +75 Dual Wield mod to dual wield this gun without penalty. But at master BH, they only get +15 Dual Wield. So they need to get Pistol grips 4 to get a total of +75 Dual wield. Again, I agree that it should take a combination of MBH + Pistoleer to properly dual wield Scatters, andit's goodto seepistoleers giving a nod to commandos & BHers...we've come a long way since release
But to obtain this Cert, one should do a quest in order to obtain it. I believe at master, each profession should have a quest to further increase their skills. I.E. give new specials/schematics/certs/mods/etc… Agreed, but this goes for every profession in the game. We should have role specific quests that unlock these items. Just as long as those "quests" don't = DWB.
So at the end of the pistoleer one, they get the ability to dual wield DE-10’s. At master pistoleer they can dual wield it, but they would only have +95 Dual wield and suffer a small penalty in doing so. But with master marksman on top of pistoleer…. No Penalty. Agreed, if master marksman is a requirement for commandos & BHers, it should be for dual DE-10s.
The idea of commando's dual wielding their launchers was just to add every pistol to the dual wielding idea, but since it is heavy-weaponish, maybe this shouldnt be dual wielded. Unless they change it from a pistol to a true HW (which they might..and even if they do), I say let it be dual wielded. Commandos have gone through bad times just as everyone else and need some lovin'.
I also do not like the ideas that are out there that believe Master Pistoleers should be able to dual wield any pistol in the game. Let me clarify that a little. Some ideas say that a plain Master Pistoleer, no other skills, should be able to dual wield a scatter/any other pistol that they do not get the cert for. I believe this is a terrible idea. Why give the BH the cert to wield one, but then give master pistoleers with no BH skills the ability to wield 2? This completely kills the little reward the BH has in having a profession specific pistol by giving non-BH's the better reward in wielding 2 scatters. Yep, and vice versa...now, for BHers dual wielding LLCs...
I like my idea on how the Scatter pistol should be dual wielded, soo the Master Bounty Hunter gets a little reward at master (scatter dual wielding cert) but can only use it without penalty if he gets a couple skills in the pistoleer tree.
