Pistoleer Archive
Thread: I'm sick of BH insulting us.
Bounty Hunter:
- +60 pistol accuracy+30 General accuracy over pistoleer
- +50 pistol speed+2 Speed over pistoleer
- +12 ranged defense +7 over the pistoleer (+6 of this comes from the marksmen line)
Pistoleer:
- +30 dodge +30 over what a BH has
- +30 accuracy
- +48 pistol speed
- +16 pistol aiming +16 over what a BH has
- +30 accuracy while moving +30 over what a BH has
- +20 defense vs. stun +20 over what a BH has
- +20 defense vs. blind+20 over what a BH has
- +20 defense vs. dizzy +20 over what a BH has
- +20 defense vs. posture change +20 Over what a BH has
- +20 defense vs. knockdown +20 over what a BH has
- +15 accuracy while standing +15 over what a BH has
- +13 melee defense +13 over what a BH has
- +5 ranged defense
How are we as good Suntsu? Answer a post of mind instead of throwing out misinformation like you are doing now....
Show me in that skill set how we are as good? Eye shot? Dont worry its gonna get nerfed soon...Without it how are we as good?
Anyone? Anyone at all?
I think whats bugging me is this whole time you have said we are as good as 3 combat professions, but have failed to use ANY evidence whatsoever to back this up...
When I do long posts compiling information on game mechanics this is how you answer?
The game is broke half those skills you see above do not work, THATS why pistoleers feel so inbalanced, intstead you atack the only scape goat you can see, with what? the thought that we are better?
Without Eye shot we are only better in your mind, and raph even said today in so many words the eye shot nerf is incoming, all mind damage is getting nerfed.....
I am really failing to see what 3 classes we equal in cobat prowess....(without eye shot)
Chef+dancer+TKA? (yah that was sarcasim do not take that as an argument)
I'm simply astounded..yet again another BH proving that UBER is never UBER enough....fug it - everyone, give in to the dark side, become a BH..maybe when EVERYONE is a Novice BH we'll see the Holo post, "Umm so why is everyone taking novice BH?"
I've always particularly loved the "hard to become a BH" line..lol what part was hard? Master marksman - piece o' cake..Master Scout? Boring..but thats about it..the survival line is the only one that ever took any time...Now being a "master BH" is hard..but only because of the wonderfully broken investigation line and the previously broken LLC...
Will reply in the other post...But just to say
No we do not have more offense...Look at ALL the mods man...The sum total of all the offense accuracy mods is more in the pistoleer tree...Do not just say "Hey look at general accuracy"
And we DONT have a rifle...
Other then that ill reply in the smuggler to your posts..
Look, I am not going to bother responding to specific numbers because it has been done to death.
There are a couple of fundamental issues here -
A) So much of pistoleer doesn't work atm that it is hard to make any meaningful comparison. I personally have all the "state" defense mods and some more from skill tapes, yet I have never - not once - resisted a single state effect.
B) Bounty Hunter was balanced poorly, the specials and skill mods are too front-loaded. There would much less of an issue at all if Torso shot and a bunch of the spd/acc mods moved to Master BH and eyeshot moved up to BH pistol4. The problem now is that one skill line is SO desireable that it is worth more than Master Pistoleer all by itself - the dynamics of pvp give it 2 things completely lacking from Pistoleer, the ability to win quickly (with eyeshot) and the ability to do long term debilitating damage (torso shot).
C) This is largely speculation on my part - but I do not think the seperate lines of BH were ever "balanced" or tested. Master BH as a package deal is fine, you end up with a very good combat character with a lot of versatility. The problem is "dabblers" - I think that Bounty Pistol4+Master Pistoleer or Bounty Carbine4+Master Carbineer make a mockery of the skill system. I don't think either the speed system or the +accuracy system was balanced with the skill numbers that template generates. You end up with characters who can use any weapon in the line at a 1.0 spd and hit nearly every time.
Misc. junk that isn't helping:
Trolling (apparently by both sides) I don't read the BH boards, so I cannot say anything about pistoleers bashing BHs..but there is a contingent of BHs who regularly post on the general board and here, simply to incite pistoleers.
Frustration and misperceptions. Pistoleer is badly broken right now..any higher skilled pistoleer knows this..its proved every night when we go to PvP..its proved whenever we hunt..yet any attempt to discuss it gets flooded by people saying, "you deserve it" "you should be nerfed more" or the ever popular "but BH is supposed to own 1-1 pvp".
BTW None of this has ever been about wanting to nerf BH or ignoring their issues - I know there is a ton of things that could have been fixed, instead they tossed you a broken weapon that will only make things worse. (but hey at least the commandos can keep you company)
wow gray I could not agree more...
Yes the mods should have been thrown around a little and not all in one tree 
...
Yes mods need to be fixed..
The speed system on a whole must be looked at, as is not its broken....
And yes I would give up accuracy for defensive mods in the master box...
A BH should be less front loaded, and more general (bit more defense less accuracy/speed)
All the Issues you said I agree with 100%....Perfect concise post to the point .
Gray03 wrote:
Misc. junk that isn't helping:
...but there is a contingent of BHs who regularly post on the general board and here, simply to incite pistoleers.
There are just as many (if not more) Pistoleers who do the same. It's an endless loop of haters making more haters out of thosewho would normally have nothing to say about this class or that.I never held any ill will towardsanotherprofuntil I actually started reading the kind of garbage somewere posting.
DF would be a prime example. He comesto the BH forum, tells themwhat our role should be while making a half cocked attempt to mask hisdeep seated contempt for BH's right from the get go, then runs away mad to post inflammatory crapbecause hedidn't geta standing ovation for his alleged 'rationale'. At least when Caelrie trolls the BH boards24/7, she is up front about the fact she hates BH's and makes no apologies. That's a lot easier to handle thansomeone like DF who claims he's innocent and got flamed for nothing.
puh-leeez
So long as some Pistoleers persist withtheir highly insulting crusades against the BH prof on every front imaginable, then yeah, you're going to see BH's lashing out in defense. When people start playing their character without the overwhelming emphasis being onhow they stack up to everyone else in PvP, then at least there might be some hope for improved relations. Since that is doubtful, I expect this is pretty much...it.
Someone earlier wrote that it takes 3-4 days to make master marksman. What game are you playing. It took me nearly a month and a half to become a master marksman and a master scout. Im on my way to becoming a BH(25000 combat xp left) and i can already become a novice pistoleer. Oh.. wait...im sorry, your class is just so hard to get to.
I have never heard a bigger load of crap in my life. You know what the next patch should include. A shovel for all pistoleers because it is getting thick in here and you guys need to be able to move it around.
"I used 217 skills points while you use only 90ish"...
Yeah, you learned how to run faster in wild env., you learned how to trap creatures, you even learned what a creature is, you learned how to build camps, you learned how to hunt, you're even master in all of those, then you learned how to use a Rifle, then a carbine....so you can be better with pistol than someone who just focused all his time on a pistol, of course...
If a pistoleer masters Scout and Marksman, he is still as useless than before : still a pistoleer.
if you want to bring here some kind of explanation, at least bring things that makes sense, mastering scout for sure doesn't give you any better chance to use a pistol than a pistoleer.
That being said, BH aren't meant to be better at a said weapon than the elite profession using it, BH are just using tools for different purpose, they are just way more versatile. All complaints agaisnt BH can be read as complaints their profession is just broken. BH doesn't need to be nerfed but Carbine / Pistol and Rifle elite professions need a HUGE upgrade, and quickly.
Bounty Hunter:
- +60 pistol accuracy+30 General accuracy over pistoleer
- +50 pistol speed+2 Speed over pistoleer
- +12 ranged defense +7 over the pistoleer (+6 of this comes from the marksmen line)
Pistoleer:
- +30 dodge +30 over what a BH has
- +30 accuracy
- +48 pistol speed
- +16 pistol aiming +16 over what a BH has
- +30 accuracy while moving +30 over what a BH has
- +20 defense vs. stun +20 over what a BH has
- +20 defense vs. blind+20 over what a BH has
- +20 defense vs. dizzy +20 over what a BH has
- +20 defense vs. posture change +20 Over what a BH has
- +20 defense vs. knockdown +20 over what a BH has
- +15 accuracy while standing +15 over what a BH has
- +13 melee defense +13 over what a BH has
- +5 ranged defense
Know your skill tree dyril, Pistoleers are better with a pistol, and they are all around better at fighting.
The problem is the game is broken....Its not with BH's being better, because besides eye shot, they aren't.
I'd like to address some issues regarding BH and Pistoleer and for that matter all other elite professions.
I can and will say this having been there in beta. The BH line was radically altered 2 weeks prior to release. (Maybe 3 I'm not sure) The original BH class had 3 branches of droid skills and 1 branch of weapons use. I and everyone else thought this was a purely moronic way of having a class that took so many skill points to acquire and master. Now I was a BH on ahazi prior to the wipe so I know about the 3 branches of droid stuff.. it sucked to say the least.Bria was the only server left untouched and therefore had the chace for testing of theadvanced classes
Unfortunately a class such as BH that was so radically altered before release was never truly tested because well frankly.. NO ONE got there.. or the few that did weren't enough to test it. That means that we, in release, are doing the beta test. As Ralph has stated the combat classes are meant to be roughly equal in pvp, and yes I think BH as originally intended was balanced with the rest of the combat classes.
Bascically no one fully tested the advanced classes in beta.. we weren't given enough time to test the pvp issues etc.
Notice no one complaining about marksman or scout? They've been thoroughly tested... I mean ya well I complain about trapping (i think the implementation is silly.. traps are not grenades)and maskscent I think is still something of an issue, but overall there is nothing there anyone complains about. I think the same in general for all of the basic classes.
Once in release though, it didn't take long to figure out that pvp was fine until knockdown skills were acquired. Basically its a move that eliminates you from ever retaliating, horrible horrible idea in pvp. The dev's realized this and instituted a 75% damage reduction realizing pvp was going nowhere fast. Well that didn't work so now we see the results of that. Knockdown is almost utterly useless, good job there devs, instead of just removing KD as an effect from PVP, across the board PVE is now ridiculous too.
I'm sorry but watching the movies and watching Han 1 shot storm trooper after storm trooper and now seeing how myself as a master pistoleer or for that matter anyone as a master of any profession cannot 1 shot a ST, takes a good portion of the enjoyment from the game. Yes ST's should be hard, but not 3 of them impossible. ST's do really dumb things in combat they line up essentially like the civil war soldiers, they have no real sense of self-preservation etc. (thats from watching the movies only not the expanded stuff) Ok they are strong and quick etc. But a master of an elite profession shouldn't have a huge problem fighting them which atm he/she does. That's part of what makes the game fun, not being able to kill ST's on a regular basis destroys that for me.
Basically we are beta testing the elite classes and the dev's are finding out that they have some serious issues here with balance and gameplay. ATM as of this latest patch, PVP is either commando orBH the only classes that can 1 shot someone and PVE is about CH with a pet for a damage soak. Anything else is just fluff.
I can say this much, in beta without KD except for the TK's having it, pvp was fun.. we did full dmg and had a good time. Occasionally getting 1 shotted wasn't upsetting it was just part of the game. The 75% reduction in damage has made it NOT FUN, sure pvp was fast.. but then why shouldn't it be?I mean shooting someone 10 times to incap them is a bit silly and takes away from the chance of a lower level person ever having a chance at taking out some master BH or whatever. That was part of what attracted me.. the chance that I with a few skills may.. I repeat MAY just be able to get a master of an elite profession. Not likely but the chance was there, (this is a skills based system.. that's part of the idea behind them.. no one is untouchable).75% reduction in dmg.. well so much for that idea..impossible comes to mind, hell I can autofire and take out a lower skilled character and not even be at the keyboard.
Somehow I think these facts have been lost,
1. Killing lots of ST's is fun and while difficult the gamedoes notreflect the movies.
2. A lower skilled person has a chance (albeit very small) against the biggest baddest class in the game.
One is a PVE issue the other is aPVP issue. Neither of these fun things to do exists as of the last 2 patches, they did on release though.
And while yes the entire system is huge etc and there is tons to explore etc, to me two of the basic combat elements that were fun no longer are.
Most elite professions are broken and instead of fixing them properly, we get knockdown nerfs and dmg reductions. There needs to be a look back at the goals of the game overall and realize just how far things have gotten from the original intent. Maybe going back on a few of the changes would be a very good idea, then again maybe not, but this game to me isn't about the challenges of pve, its about everyone in the game i play with. And atm .. NONE of us are having fun. Think about that devs, thats the real goal here and it's getting lost.