Pistoleer Archive

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Taewyn wrote:

Bounty Hunter:

• +60 pistol accuracy+30 General accuracy over pistoleer (works)
  
• +50 pistol speed+2 Speed over pistoleer (works)
  
• +12 ranged defense +7 over the pistoleer (+6 of this comes from the marksmen line)

Pistoleer:

• +30 dodge +30 over what a BH has (doesnt work)
  
• +30 accuracy (works)
  
• +48 pistol speed (works)master pistoleer has less speed than bh withpistol4
  
• +16 pistol aiming +16 over what a BH has (works)
  
• +30 accuracy while moving +30 over what a BH has(works)
  
• +20 defense vs. stun +20 over what a BH has (doesnt work)
  
• +20 defense vs. blind+20 over what a BH has (doesnt work)
  
• +20 defense vs. dizzy +20 over what a BH has (doesnt work)
  
• +20 defense vs. posture change +20 Over what a BH has (doesnt work)
  
• +20 defense vs. knockdown +20 over what a BH has (doesnt wotk)
  
• +15 accuracy while standing +15 over what a BH has (works)
  
• +13 melee defense +13 over what a BH has (doesnt work)
  
• +5 ranged defense(doesnt work)

How are we as good Suntsu? Answer a post of mind instead of throwing out misinformation like you are doing now....

Show me in that skill set how we are as good? Eye shot? Dont worry its gonna get nerfed soon...Without it how are we as good?

Anyone? Anyone at all?

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i like this post it helps everyone undertsand while that it looks good on paper out in the field its a much different story.

Please Bh's QUIT bring the skill point argument to the tabel its ludicrous. a master pistoleer/rifleman/carbineer earns 20 boxes ofskill each in their weapons while the bh earns 8. i am not sure about your guys math but isnt 20>8.you earn less combat exp in each wepand 1/3 of your skill is non-combat.the bh isnt the top dog of all combat classes. if it was why would anyone be any other prof. the uber combat class is the jedi not a bh.

*****
* +60 pistol accuracy +30 General accuracy over pistoleer
* +50 pistol speed +2 Speed over pistoleer
* +12 ranged defense +7 over the pistoleer (+6 of this comes from the marksmen line)
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and

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Know your skill tree dyril, Pistoleers are better with a pistol, and they are all around better at fighting.
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hmmm...ok, all your skills are just far beyond and you still can't see a BH is better at pistol ? It is your own post and you point up what bothers us : your pistol skills are just better. Ok we have some mod while moving (he he, it works great for sure (irony)), etc...but our gun (DX2) is so crappy (with a retarded look...bah, yours looks like a hairthing, I have to admit) that our attack overall abilities are just useless. BH are still WAAAAAAYYYYYY better with a pistol (their pistol at least) than a Pistoleer with any pistol.

Don't make me say what I don't want to say : I don't want BH to be nerfed, I just want :

1) BH to stop stating they used that amount of SP so they should be better at fighting, cause it can't be true (Master Scout is a very usefull thing)
2) Pistoleer Defense line to work, then it *could* be balanced
3) our special moves to be seriously looked at
4) our elite gun to be seriously looked at (and change retarded look please)

The defense skills are useless, they just DON'T WORK, so why do you bring them here ?


PS : my station name is Dyriel, with a capital letter and a "E" between the "i" and the "l". Not a big issue but I still think when someone wants to deal with someone, the first best move is at least not bugging his name.

SanTsu got it right.

Any Bounty Hunter that is complaing is either ignorant, or spoiled, take your pick. If you don't pick and keep posting, we'll assign you one of these titles.

I mean, really, what's the issue here?
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You have the best damage shot IN THE GAME: Eye shot. You get it at BH pistol 2.

You have the best health targeted shot in the game: Torso Shot, at BHpistol4

You have more speed than carbineers and pistoleers

You have no defenses, but as you know, defenses are on the order of 4% protection. Which means, having no defense is the same as having defense, meaning that argument is hilariously dumb.

You have missions built around you.

You have droids built specifically for you.

You have a suit of armor built specifically for you.

You have a backpack with your FREAKING name on it.

You now have LLCs that one shot in PvP.

Congrats, you either just learned something, or you're the definition of a spoiled cry baby. *clap*

You have missions built around you.

You have droids built specifically for you.

You have a suit of armor built specifically for you.

You have a backpack with your FREAKING name on it.

First of all Artisans have there own missions build around them, should they be take away too

Two the droids are used in our missions so yes they are built around us

Third, i dont know what armor u are talking about all armor can be worn by all classes, we dont get and special armor

four, The backpack can be worn by anyone,

Last of all the rife is a canon LLC stands for a light lighting canon is a heavy weapon not a rifle, it gives heavy weapon xp and only has an effective range of 30m, like it should. However it is overpowered after the patch, but its in the same boat as all the other heavy weapons.

Please Bh's QUIT bring the skill point argument to the tabel its ludicrous. a master pistoleer/rifleman/carbineer earns 20 boxes ofskill each in their weapons while the bh earns 8. i am not sure about your guys math but isnt 20>8.you earn less combat exp in each wepand 1/3 of your skill is non-combat.the bh isnt the top dog of all combat classes. if it was why would anyone be any other prof. the uber combat class is the jedi not a bh.

I belive I got the whole marksmen tree, while you only had to get 5 marksmen boxes? Should then any marksmen be better then a pistoleer?

Your argument is flawed its based on boxes, why would anyone be diffrent then a BH? Because as a pistoleer you have 150 points left to spend in whatever you wish.

But I digress, read my other posts, perhaps if the skill mods workded, and the special system was revamped to actually work as well. You guys would understand that pistoleers are not lacking due to the BH, but because the game is broken...Also....

you earn less combat exp in each wepand 1/3 of your skill is non-combat

We spend 125 skill points on nothing but combat boxes, so if your taking out scout as any prefrence to combat, then yes, we still spent more then you on combat.

However I am not going to argue BH's should be better with pistols then a pistoleer, because frankly I do not belive the should be...As it stands now, the only reason they are is because the game's mod system is broken....

hmmm...ok, all your skills are just far beyond and you still can't see a BH is better at pistol ? It is your own post and you point up what bothers us : your pistol skills are just better. Ok we have some mod while moving (he he, it works great for sure (irony)), etc...but our gun (DX2) is so crappy (with a retarded look...bah, yours looks like a hairthing, I have to admit) that our attack overall abilities are just useless. BH are still WAAAAAAYYYYYY better with a pistol (their pistol at least) than a Pistoleer with any pistol.

Again read the whole post. the only thing we have more then a pistoleer is +30 accuracy...For that we give up all those defense mods, accuracy while moving, accuracy while standing, meelee defense, and dodge...

but our gun (DX2) is so crappy

The only reason this is the case, is due to bad resources on your server, on my server the resources to make the advanced components for the dx2 actually spawn...So on my sever I use a DX2 over a scatter, its just a better gun. Again not the problem with the BH, its a broken feature in game.

The defense skills are useless, they just DON'T WORK, so why do you bring them here ?

To illustrate you indeed did not read any of my posts, no less then 3 times have I stated.

"If the defense mods worked as they should, pistoleers would have a boost"

I bring them here because you have them....It should be your priority to get them fixed, before you began comparing pistol skills to the bh tree. How do you know how effectlive your class can be if half the stuff is broken?

On specials. I could not agree with you more, they need to be reworked for every class, the system needs to be reworked from the ground up.

btw jaegen if your post was not directed at me, but instead directed at BH's who compalin in general, Then I apologize answering it.

Sometimes however it agrivates me, when people see BH, and assume whiner. When in fact many of us are just level headed people trying to make the game work.

This image should only get better as all the leet dudes left for commando anyway

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Taewyn wrote:

Please Bh's QUIT bring the skill point argument to the tabel its ludicrous. a master pistoleer/rifleman/carbineer earns 20 boxes ofskill each in their weapons while the bh earns 8. i am not sure about your guys math but isnt 20>8.you earn less combat exp in each wepand 1/3 of your skill is non-combat.the bh isnt the top dog of all combat classes. if it was why would anyone be any other prof. the uber combat class is the jedi not a bh.

I belive I got the whole marksmen tree, while you only had to get 5 marksmen boxes? Should then any marksmen be better then a pistoleer?

Your argument is flawed its based on boxes, why would anyone be diffrent then a BH? Because as a pistoleer you have 150 points left to spend in whatever you wish.

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i am sorry i did not want to count the # of skill points in all the boxes. my argument is based of the number of skll points learned in each class specificweapon...pisol-master pistoleer,carbine-master carbineer etc. and this number by FAR outnumbers that learned by the bh's. why should the bh be as good or better than any class that earns 12 boxes(whatever amount of skill points that is)more in their weapon? if you dont see the logic then you will never understand. its like saying instead of pistol techniques in the pistoleer tree they put pistol design and build. at pistol design and build 4 i should be able to build better fwg5'd than a master weaponsmith given the same resources.

I agree jim, infact the logic there is perfect...

The solution is easy...Move the pistol/carbine mods in the BH tree around to all the boxes, do not keep them all in one branch.

The only way to get all the mods would be to get every box....

This would in effect increase the number of pistol boxes in the BH tree, balancing it with the pistoleer tree, which already has its mod's divided very evenly across multiple trees.

That is my opninon anyway , But yes can definetly see your logic on this, and your right, the problem is BH skills are too bunched into one line.

Look guys, I really don't care about arguing with the two of you about this. As you can tell, I've directed my posts at the other Pistoleers because I think they can learn something from the two of you.

For some reason, BHs got the impression that "pistoleers" were the ones who increased knockdown HAM costs. That's not what I saw ... it was the newbs on SWG discussion that got them to nerf knockdown. And as a long time resident of THIS forum, I think that this group didn't whine enough. Bounty Hunter has always been much more powerful than Pistoleer, but the BHforum was filled with complaints, whining, and bitching... while the Pistoleer forum was filled with charts, data, and requests for twirly guns. Our forum needs an attitude adjustment if we're going to get the Devs to fix us. I don't care about you guys, and I'm not trying to insult you. Frankly I wish you would just leave our forum.

As for why pistoleer is broken, no I don't agree that the reason we're broken is because of the defense mods. I think our #1 issue is the bugged way that speed is handled in the game. After that, the broken/useless specials we have comes in at #2. The defense mods are a distant 3rd. If you wanta longer explanation of my views on that stuff, please feel free to read one of the 50 posts I've written on the subject. But please don't troll all 50 posts with nasty responses ... we really don't wantyou guys around, thanks.

As far as the whole issue of profession balance goes, I don't buy into the "SWG isn't about equality" argument that one of you mentioned. As much as I love my BH skills, Raph made clear again today that they want the combat professions to be roughly equal in PvP because they don't want us all to choose the same profession. I understand all of the skill point arguments because I've read the BH forums, so please don't post another long-winded response here. I've heard all of it before.

I need to go to sleep now, so have fun and please go back to your own forums. Thanks and have a good night.

Question: I see this arguement lot..just wondering if one of you guys could field it. Some Bh's claim that they should be the ultimate combat class, reason being the amount of points required to master the class. The reasoning behind it is what's bothering me, see the same BH's proclaim that no one will play BH if they are not the best combat class because there would be no point in spending the points to get a sub-par class. My question is, IF they were hands down the best, then why would anyone else play any other combat class? I mean no matter how you spent your points you still wouldn't be as good as a BH. It goes bothways, I guess.

Ahh good question I can field it, though the answer is going to be long....

It is my belief BH's on a whole should bebetter at direct damagethen any other single tree of combat (save of course for commandoes) . I use the word single because in itself the BH can not be compared to a single class....As much as its been a dead horse argument I will use the 217 point argument . Please read past it though as I adress problems with that argument as well, and how the devs tried to adress it.

A single class requires 92 points to master...That being said you have 158 points to spend in whatever you want,the pistoleerhas only invested 36% of his total power in that profession...Meanwhile a BH has only 33 points left, he has invested 86% of his total power into that one tree...

Now who would not feel cheated if they spent 86% of their power in something that yields less then somone who has spent 36% of theirs...There for the BH is not really balanced against any one tree, its balanced against about 2 trees....Now you may ask why is that?

Because, anyone who masters pistoleer still has enough skill points left to master 1 and a half elite trees...The trees are balanced with that in mind...

It seems simple, but its really not that simple at all.You see the devs still needed to balance each tree at least marginally against the BH (I agree it would have been unfair otherwise)....So they made a pistoleer an all around better gunfighter, while leaving the BH as pure direct killers.The attempt at this, on paper at least,is shown in various ways...

1.) Pistoleers defense mods...Ment to illustrate more versatility in combat, and a less forward nature in combat.

2.) Pistoleers differing accuracy mods, now this is intresting...Pistoleers on a whole have more accuracy then BH's, but its not all just general accuracy (Which is what everyone looks at)...Again this is to illustrate better "all around" gun fighter, while the BH is all damage and speedto respresent more of a "killer".

3.) More variety in specials...(keep reading, I will post a problem with ever single one of these)

Seems like a good plan right? BH's fast high damage killers..Pistoleers slower but more tacticly inlcined gun fighters...So what happened between paper and programing?

1.) Defense mods did not work, I have not tested them today, but because they did not work the underlying strength of a pistoleer was gone...

2.) Because everyone can hit everything, weather they are running back flipping or whatever ....The differing accuracy mods did not show through...Today however hopefully the Hit bonus while running will show through (hopefully)...Again BH's do not have this bonus.

3.) The specials are unimagintive and suck...Whats else can I say?

In essence BH's were made to be fast and swift killers...While pistoleers were made to be Gun fighters..There is a diffrence between somone who uses a weapon for Finess (Gun fighters) and somone who uses it to kill (Most well trained soldiers)

Both can be deadly in diffrent ways, however the game just does not seem to have enough variences to show that....Hopefully soon it will, the patches at least are trying to adress it .

Sorry long post

it was the newbs on SWG discussion that got them to nerf knockdown

I agree....

Frankly I wish you would just leave our forum

Another thing that is flawed...I can be part pistoleer...Heck I can master it.

Why just because we have BH's in our title does that preclude of from being a "pistoleer"

Would it offend you if I told you to get off these boards as well? becasue in general you have spent more points obtaining those 8 boxes in BH then you have in obtaining Pistoleer master? That would in effect make you more BH then pistoleer would it not?

You can not see why we are broken because you never invested wasted points into Investigation...Or the old LLC...You had the golden template. For you the BH was just super powerful...For the people who only have 33 points left to spend, it needs tweeks....

1 issue is the bugged way that speed is handled in the game

This is not an Issue pertaining to your specific class, it is a general combat issues and I completly agree it needs to be adressed ....

After that, the broken/useless specials we have comes in at #2

I would disagree here, not that the specials are not broken, but the place they are in...

People have become so used to seeing the oober few specials, that they have forgoten about base skills...How can anyone know how strong those skill mods are if no one has ever seen them work right?

For all you know +30 dodge could meen you dodge 30% of all blaster fire, which is more powerful then any special I can think of...

See I think the base issues need to be dealt with first, then specials can be looked at....We have no idea how good specials will be until the underlying combat system is fixed.

This is the meat of the long post above for those that wish to skip the old 217 skill point argument...

The devs want tobalance each tree at least marginally againsteach other(I agree it would have been unfair otherwise)....So they made a pistoleer an all around better gunfighter, while leaving the BH as pure direct killers.The attempt at this, on paper at least,is shown in various ways...

1.) Pistoleers defense mods...Ment to illustrate more versatility in combat, and a less forward nature in combat.

2.) Pistoleers differing accuracy mods, now this is intresting...Pistoleers on a whole have more accuracy then BH's, but its not all just general accuracy (Which is what everyone looks at)...Again this is to illustrate better "all around" gun fighter, while the BH is all damage and speedto respresent more of a "killer".

3.) More variety in specials...(keep reading, I will post a problem with ever single one of these)

Seems like a good plan right? BH's fast high damage killers..Pistoleers slower but more tacticly inlcined gun fighters...So what happened between paper and programing?

1.) Defense mods did not work, I have not tested them today, but because they did not work the underlying strength of a pistoleer was gone...

2.) Because everyone can hit everything, weather they are running back flipping or whatever ....The differing accuracy mods did not show through...Today however hopefully the Hit bonus while running will show through (hopefully)...Again BH's do not have this bonus.

3.) The specials are unimagintive and suck...Whats else can I say?

In essence BH's were made to be fast and swift killers...While pistoleers were made to be Gun fighters..There is a diffrence between somone who uses a weapon for Finess (Gun fighters) and somone who uses it to kill (Most well trained soldiers)

Both can be deadly in diffrent ways, however the game just does not seem to have enough variences to show that....Hopefully soon it will, the patches at least are trying to adress it

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Jaegen88 wrote:

The fact is, that bounty hunters are on the pistoleer forum, making nerf flames, /laugh you were nerfed, you need more nerfs, you'll never be better than us at PvP.etc.etc.

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Well one could say:

"The fact is, that pistoleers are on the bounty hunterforum, making nerf flames, /laugh you were nerfed, you need more nerfs, you'll never be better than us at PvP.etc.etc."

...and the statement would be equally true

BH's get trolled in their prof forum (and everywhere else for that matter) by Pistoleers 24/7. It's simply not equitable to blame BH's for doing this while holding Pistoleers harmless for exhibitingthesame behavior.