Pistoleer Archive
Thread: Discussion Thread: Dual Wielding Pistols
Kevie
Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:43 pm
#40
before i get on to the debate about WHERE it should be implimented.... here's HOW i think it should work......
basically you're just using two pistols....... pretty simple
instead of "firing in unison" or "taking the property of...." basically instead of trying to cram the two guns into one entity, keep them seperate
instead of "firing in unison" or "taking the property of...." basically instead of trying to cram the two guns into one entity, keep them seperate
all the calculations will happen seperately for each pistol........ if one gun happens to be faster, it'll just shoot faster
when you fire a special, both weapons will use that special the next combat round
when you fire a special, both weapons will use that special the next combat round
as for where it should be implimented.... i'm kind of torn on the whole thing honestly.....
having a crappy version of dual wield at novice would give someone to aspire to....... but having it at novice will make the true pistoleers kind of miffed at all the dabblers who just pick up novice so they can walk around with two pistols.........
but here's my two scenarios that would work for me-
IF dual pistols were at a lower skill point, i would suggest pistol grips I, and the following skills for dual wielding be in that line, and the specials would be in the techniques line......
basically there would be seperate specials to use while dual wielding, and certain things that happen (reduced accuracy, higher ham costs, etc.)
in the grips line, as you progess, you will learn to better control yourself and alleviate the strain of using two pistols... ie.less ham costs, better accuracy, etc.
in the techniques line you would have your specials...... a bleed that fires one two targets, an aoe version of pistol whip, a "true" version of double tap where you fire both pistols at once and just take twice as long to reload
but even if this scenario were to happen, master would still have to hold a LOT for someone to aspire to..... master pistoleers can still distinguish themselves with a de-10, but a master pistoleer should be leaps and bounds beyond a dabbler with just 4040
the next scenario- master.... it's fairly simple really, have dual wield at master, just have all the shortcomings and benefits stay as they are and we would just use the same specials we already have
personally, after going over the two, i'm leaning towards the first option, where dual wielding would be something that someone should aspire to do better, instead of just aspire to have
the chance to alleviate the shortcomings of having two pistols and having seperate specials seems more appealing that just giving us the chance to hold two weapons at the same time
the chance to alleviate the shortcomings of having two pistols and having seperate specials seems more appealing that just giving us the chance to hold two weapons at the same time
Kevie
Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:51 pm
#41
WesBelden wrote:
LordMaxx wrote:
some heavy weapon specials can only be used at 16m...do you think a similar restriction could be used on Dual Wielding..like only useable within 20m?
I think that'd be great. I've an image of a Pistoleer gunning away, shooting guns out of hands, grazing people's eyes (and if you're a smuggler, the odd cheaky shot to people's nether regions), untilhe's pressed by an oncoming force... at which pointhe pulls outhis other pistol from behindhis back and lights upeverything around themas they blaze away...
Seems to fit
after reading the thread (*cough* after posting)
i like this idea a lot
GunZen
Mon Oct 18, 2004 2:11 am
#42
What about making it a tree of it's own in pistoleer? Much like the BH lines or commando weapons. At novice you get - 50 penalty to speed and accuracy, then each new level in the dual wielding tree will reduce that number by 10.The specials could be the same type as well. Level 1:2gun single 1, lvl 2: 2gun area 1. Then maybe adding an extra special in lvl 3 due to not getting the 20/20 bonus you get in the similar lines in commando and BH, 2gun pointblank area 1. Lvl 4: 2gun single 2. Then at mastery you finally cancel out the penalties and get 2 more specials 2gun area 2, and 2gun pointblank area 2. The pointblank attacks should have a 360 degree area of effect. The delay and damage mods should be similar to the flamethrowerline, with an increase in dam at mastery, but not so big an increase as to make the lower levelspecials undesireable by comparison. This would allow for dabbling while retaining a substantial bonus for mastery. Dual wielding would only be possible with these specials, no others. To make it even easier on the devs instead of actually pairing two guns you just multiply the dam and ham of the gun you are using by 2. This could of course be made complex by allowing for pairing different type pistols, but the idea of a single tree for dualwielding seems like a good base to work from as it should satisfy both dabblers and masters and being (I think, I'm virtually computer illiterate) fairly easy to implement. Also it seems a fairly realistic way of handling it,making it a kind of all out attack.No targeted ham or other fancy attacks, just a hailstorm of massive damage (picture Harvey Keitel shooting up the copcar in reservoir dogs).
Phenix1050
Mon Oct 18, 2004 3:54 am
#43
Okay, here are my perceptions:
Worse Accuracy: This is basically a no brainer. Two guns means half as much concentration on each gun, plus the fact that you're not steadying either one with two hands. Kinda basic.
Limited/Removed Specials: Again, I think it's pretty obvious-- two weapons means you cant aim as well. If your general accuracy is worse, why would you still be able to hit a specific body part (or the weapon) ofa target?
Speed: In my mind it's simple-- the weapons should not fire at the same time, they should fire at a staggered pace. The speed should average of the weapons speed divided by half (delay between guns). So if you have a 1.6 speed and a 1.0 speed pistol, the pistols would fire at staggered rate of 0.7 seconds between guns. Thus the speed cap would need to be dropped while dual-wielding. Yes this means if you have two identically fast pistols, you'd be doing double damage, but since you can't do specials (or certain ones) there are certain advantages to single wielding.
So here's how I see it-
Single-Wielding
Advantages:
- All specials work- the ability to target specific pools is very nice
- Much more accurate
Disadvantages:
- Single damage type
- Slower DPS on auto attack
Dual-Wielding:
Advanteges:
- Multiple damage types (usefull on targets with resists/armor)
- Faster that single wielding
Disadvanteges:
- Less accurate (especially while moving)
- Little to no special attacks
Plus, don't worry about HAM costs--the liklihood is that the HAM system is gonna get tweaked in the Combat Update. That means that in all likelihood, specials won't take HAM, but will subtract from "special HAM" which would do no damage to your regular HAM.
Iwer
Mon Oct 18, 2004 11:00 am
#44
Duel pistols should be a master pistoleer option only! They should have a negitive aim, speed should be about the same, but a bonus to damage.
Alsopistols should have to have same serial to work together, or even though I hate myself for saying this, our normal pistols should not work. I think that weaponsmiths should get a new schematic for double blaster sets. One item=2 blasters.
Jpshaff01
Mon Oct 18, 2004 3:09 pm
#45
honestly do you think anyone is gonna use two different guns at once, come on. I know i'm gonna be running around with two sonic blasters.
LordMaxx
Mon Oct 18, 2004 5:30 pm
#46
Rockhurst wrote:
WesBelden wrote:LordMaxx:
In August of last year, the devs gave us some answers on what the community thought of some of the major Pistoleer issues/wants (included dual wielding). Can you give us an idea if any of these "nice-to-haves" are also still being concidered by the devs?
Q-3PO wrote:2) Holsters – Pistols should be able to be put in Holsters when not in combat.
This is an extremely difficult change. We’ll look into adding it down the road.
4) Gun Twirl Special Move – Pistoleers would like to have some sort of special move or flourish where they twirl their gun or something similar.We like this idea a lot. This is something we’d really like to start adding.
6) Duel Wield – Players would like to be able to duel wield pistols.
This is a great idea. We might be able to do something down the road.
If the devs could do #4, I'm not sure why #2 would be so difficult. Couldn't the devs make a belt with a holster that if a player has a pistol equipped, it appears in the holster instead of the hand? When the player shoots, a "twirl" move begins to draw the pistol from the holster.
Actually the order that things have been put in is
Dual Wielding
Twirly Moves
Holsters
Based on community input Dual wielding seems the top issue of those 3...Have I gotten feedback. Not really. Dual wielding is slated to happen after the combat revamp. And our other top 5 issues are the priority and should hopefully be addressed in the combat revamp. Mainly fixing our specials and finding our 'niche' in combat.
Gungeun
Mon Oct 18, 2004 6:48 pm
#47
Both weapons have same serial
With the way DE-10's are currently crafted, wouldn't this disallow pistoleers from dual wielding DE-10's? And, that's probably the one weapon pistoleers most want to dual wield...you may never hear me say this again, but even I say "dual de-10's...now that just looks cool". I can see how it would be easier to implement dual wielding as one weapon that takes up both hands, but I'd much rather be able to use my existing weapons and buying an additional matching weapon. Weaponsmiths would benefit from selling a pistoleer two weapons instead of one as well.
With the way DE-10's are currently crafted, wouldn't this disallow pistoleers from dual wielding DE-10's? And, that's probably the one weapon pistoleers most want to dual wield...you may never hear me say this again, but even I say "dual de-10's...now that just looks cool". I can see how it would be easier to implement dual wielding as one weapon that takes up both hands, but I'd much rather be able to use my existing weapons and buying an additional matching weapon. Weaponsmiths would benefit from selling a pistoleer two weapons instead of one as well.
I dont really like that idea. Main reason because of DE-10's and looted pistols. 2 DE-10's would be awesome, like Dirty Hairy style. I agree they should be the same pistol, but not same serial. I also think they should make a Blaster Pistol, which you can use at Master. It would look like a DL 44 (which seemed to be the weapon of choice in Star Wars) and probably be Energy Damage, but be decent dmg and speed.
ThisIsTheMatrix
Mon Oct 18, 2004 7:55 pm
#48
This is my idea for implementing the dual wield.....
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=pistoleer&message.id=65131
WesBelden
Mon Oct 18, 2004 10:20 pm
#49
ThisIsTheMatrix wrote:
This is my idea for implementing the dual wield.....
Clickity for you
WesBelden
Mon Oct 18, 2004 10:51 pm
#50
LordMaxx wrote:
Actually the order that things have been put in is
Dual Wielding
Twirly Moves
Holsters
Twirly moves comes before holsters? That surprises me given all the cool things adding holsters to the game could mean
LordMaxx
Tue Oct 19, 2004 7:21 am
#51
WesBelden wrote:
LordMaxx wrote:Actually the order that things have been put in is
Dual Wielding
Twirly Moves
HolstersTwirly moves comes before holsters? That surprises me given all the cool things adding holsters to the game could mean
I think the inventory system could be thrown out of whack with holsters...You can usually only have one extra storage item equipped at a time I believe...so having a backpack, then adding on another wearable storage item seems like it could get messy. Updating our animations may be easier in the long run. Also they need to have a twirly move in so that when we get holsters we can twirl them into it! lol
Squidwalker
Tue Oct 19, 2004 8:13 am
#52
Yes the petition should go away since the devs already stated they will do it, some day. Oh wait that's right, they have a history of not doing things they said. OH well.
It should be at master level only.
You should get the damage and damage type of BOTH pistols equiped.
You should for sure need to equip 2 pistols.
Definately not same serial number, and I'm 50/50 on same pistol type. Personally I think it could be two diferent types for damage type changes, and AP options. But I can see it for mechanics and looks wise, same type.
They should both shoot at the speed they would normally. No speed penalty
They should both shoot at the damage they would normally, no damage penatly(with 2 you of course have a damage increase)
There should for sure be an accuracy penalty on both pistols. Like minus 20 or something along those lines.
Not sure about specials. Maybe no pistolwhip. But all other specials usable.
Also I can see AOE specials doing better then before, Like the two pointblank AOE and Fanshot. Because you have two pistols covering the area, laying down more fire.
Additionally, the special at master should do A LOT better. Think about how it works now, shooting all targets around you. If you have two pistols going, theoretically you could have each pistol shooting at different targets at the same time.
Along with the base across the board accuracy penalty, I think the max range modifier, should have an additional accuracy penalty. The reason being, at farther out, itwould be harder to hit things at long range with two pistols blazing away.