Pistoleer Archive
Thread: Why BH's should ALWAYS be stronger the pistoleer
But to add to that, I'm not saying you're wrong, just saying there are other options out there that should be better at combatthan simply being a master bounty hunter, because they spend more skill points and are harder to get.
Also the reason there arent that many master bounty hunters, is because most of the powergamers are pvpers at heart, which is the same or similar route to mine, because they feel it's better than becoming a Master Bounty hunter for pvp (like it should be if it costs more skill points and causes you to be completely specialized with one single weapon). Meanwhile alot of the roleplayers chose to become a master bounty hunter, but they simply do not level as fast on average as the powergamers ... eventually the masses will catch up though.
bounty hunters like to focus on the "takes more points to get there" and ignore the whole "get more in one branch than pistoleers do in a whole tree" thing. then they like to bring up mastering bounty hunter when it's irrelevant. the only comparison that needs to be made is whole pistoleer tree to one bounty hunter branch....or 63 to 20.
yes it takes more skill points to get there, but they also get 3 weapons if they choose to master it or the opportunity to take the pistoleer tree too if they choose only the pistol branch of bounty hunter. plus they get crappy missions. in the event that player missions are added i shouldn't be more or less dead the second a bounty is on my head. fighting back should be a valid option. the bounty hunter's chance of success should be like 75% or so, not 100%...otherwise you may as well just give everyone a button that says "revenge kill" and have the person they want the bounty on just drop dead.
for some reasonbounty huntersget this "i'm boba fett" image and think they should be able to kill anything...remember greedo...he was trying to collect on han's bounty...not every bounty hunter is or should be as good as boba fett. if this game is supposed to have a strong emphasis on pvp and one class clearly stands above the rest, then it's only a matter of time before the majority just take up that class so they stand a chance. currently bounty hunters are probably about where they should be. they're tough, but the fight isn't decided before it starts. (it's decided by the first shot, but that's another matter altogether)
if they just toss on little bit more speed and accuracy on the pistoleer tree to make it at least equal this whole argument would probably go away. the same holds true for carbines and carbineers...all 3 of them on the server. (go go gadget busted tree)
I'd just like to point out: who took pistoleer thinking "aww, **edit**... I guess I get specialty with the pistol, but I have to give up my abilities with a lightning cannon...."
How many people use multiple weapons? I know a few rifleman/pistoleers, but in SWG (like every game... and unlike reality), it pays to specialize, not diversify. You getone ubar weapon, oneubar skill set, one focus, one discipline, and your character is built around these fundamentals. Swapping out to a more appropriate weapon is far more difficult (and less likely to suceed) than simply become an absolute master of one weapon... at least in the game sense.
Ultimatly, I think a character with BH pistol 4 vs a char with master pistoleer should always loose (if both are using pistols). It is true that the bounty hunter has spent over double the skill credits... however, from BH pistol IV the prospective BH can still become even more specialized in his chosen weapon, becomming a master pistoleer as well.
A master pistoleer can only choose other weapons classes or professions, becoming a creature handler or a TKA or a medic or whatever the pistoleer figures will have the most synergy with there main weapon. Ultimatly though, if we're going to keep the notion that specialization means power, an endgame BH should be the better fighter.
Snuffer wrote:you fail to see the WHOLE picture. the BIG one. You know the that shows BH IS A GOOD 10X HARDER TO GET THEN PISTOLEER picture.
Pistoleer is something a CRAFTER takes up to shoot at something.
If you want to put REAL combat classes side by side. BRING OUT THE COMMANDO.. now that is someone who should be on par with a BH.
Here's the WHOLE picture. You're a troll. Go away.
Snuffer wrote:
Thats before I discovered the joys of 1 shot killing stopping shot that needs to be nerfed beyond just the 75% damage pvp general balancing. Stopping shot damage needs to go way down.
I would just like to point out that you are partially wrong on this. Stopping Shot does around 1500 max damage to a random pool, while Eyeshot (my attack of choice for PvP most of the time) does 800 max damage to just the mind pool. Once the 75% resistance is added in the fact that stopping shot hits a random pool will play a large role in how affective it is in PvP. It would have to be doing 3x the damage of Eyeshot to make up for it's randomness. It's pretty clear that it only does closer to 2x the damage and so no, stopping shot does not need to go way down.
As it is currently you are correct though, since no one has 1500 points in all their HAMs to live a stopping shot, but after the damage reduction this won't be a problem.
Syrah
ok...another ignorant BH...i have see SOOO many on these boards so far, and ive just started posting 2 weeks ago. YES BH should be a better all around combat class. since they spec in 2 other weapons. but they should be owned in a pistol fight by a pistoleer 75% of the time. and from my experience this is already true. I went master pistoleer then decided i wanted to kick 99% of peoples butts pvp so i got BH pistol line. its ok, only things i really like are the DOTS and the status effects. oh and the scatter pistol, when sliced its almost unfair 
. your arguments about xp difficulty once again falls on deaf ears. i, along with MANY others here, achieved master scout and master marksman with 2 days or LESS of mild grinding. and pistoleer tree i got with maybe 4 weeks of steady play with its last week a pretty good grind. why are you complaining about the investigation xp? **edit** does that have to do with being better pvp?! things arent as unbalanced as people think as master pistoleer i had never lost a duel. (im not being cocky, its just that i dont usually challenge first so i get the first shot 
) and with BH pistol i can better mess up the overpowered CH's pets that always own everyone. and since pvp is all about the first shot why does it matter how many skill points you invest? why be part medic when you wont get the chance to heal yourself? ok and my last point is that you are overlooking the skills you already have. you act like scout and marksman are just hassling pre-reqs but you ARE a master scout. you AREa master marksman.you have all those skills. so you shouldnt need even more power in your elite line when you have 2 tree's worth of powers under it.
in closing: If you want to be the best PvPer you can. specialize in one weapon and dabble in classes that get you that. if you want to be a badass bounty hunter but a just above average pvper. master BH.
Snuff is partially correct.
But there are some ideas he seems to miss. BH is not a pure combat class. Commando is more of a combat class than BH, it has 4 lines of combat oriented skills. BH only has 3, so if 3/4 of BH is combat, and 1/4 is investigation. ALSO, you have to consider the other abilities of BH, you don't get the ability to take BH missions for free, and *eventually* pc bounties. There has to be a cost to gain that ability. So to say that you have to have master scout and marksman just for the combat toys in BH is not true. You have to be master scout and master marksman for the combat toys AND the ability to take on BH missions and eventually PC missions.
What is the result? A master BH should be better than a master pistoleer, but should that doesn't take into account that a master pistoleer could also be a master doctor, or CH and then the tables are turned.
BHs do take a penalty because they can't branch out at all, so they have only their 1 skill set, where a good pistoleer can combine skills from multiple professions to be more powerful.
Snuff, there are Master Bounty hunter's in Lowca, I do believe I came across one last night in Theed if I remember correctly. Anyways, I just wanted to post this here on YOUR new thread because for some reason, you couldn't have posted this, for the 2 or 3 time now, on the same thread talking about this same thing. So here is what I posted over there:
[quote]
I didn't want to post again but obviously I have to answer one person, the NERF guy who said my math or logic is terrible. No, it's not, what's terrible is that your telling me something that you haven't read yet, because you admited that you haven't read all the posts yet. Why don't you read the post's FIRST, so you can see what we're talking about.
That being said, let me sum it up for you nerf(whatever).
We are Pistoleer's, We ONLY care about Pistol's and anything that pertain's to Pistol's. Are you following me so far? In other words, WE don't care about your broken flashlight called lightning whatever, it's not a pistol. WE don't care about your broke "special bounty hunter" missions, because it has nothing to do with Pistol's. We don't care that you can't use half of the skills required for your class because those skills to NOT pertain to PISTOL'S. Is that clear enough for you?
As for my math, your post made me think, and you know what, you are 100% right, My math and my logic is off. And it took a bounty hunter to show me that. So I redid my math and ONLY put in what Counts for Pistoleer's, EVERYTHING THAT HAS TO DEAL WITH PISTOL'S (in other words, there is nothing else added in here, only what pertains to Pistol's, so nothing under general aiming or anything like that). Here is the results:
Pistoleer = Pistol accuracy 95, Pistol Speed74 (straight up the pistol line of marksmen and then MP) = 92 skill points and 4,662,620 points of experience.
Bounty Hunter = Pistol accuracy 110, Pistol Speed 80 (straight up pistol line of marksmen and all skills required under BH for pistol's) = 50 skill points and 1,332,240 points of experience.
So, like you pointed out, the Correct math and logic is that for 42 skill points LESS and 3.3 Million points of experience LESS, you can beBETTER andFASTER with a pistol? Now you tell me, where is your logic in that?
Once again, We are pistoleer's, We don't care about your lighting flashlight, if you tell me again about that flashlight of your's I'll tell you the same thing you tell me about my DX2 crap, It's just a resource issue! I don't care about your missions terminal missions being screwed up, at least it's more adventerous then killing the same diseased Nuna's over, and over, and over, and over again for a mear 1100 to 1600 credits (and yes, even those missions have bugs, like the nest not being there, or the nest despawning when your attacking it, ect.). If your gonna post here about complaint's, complain to me about pistol's, not about these other things, your on the wrong board for that.
I really don't care for answering again, but I do care to see your logic for my question. [/quote]
That poor poor dead horse. People just seem to enjoy beating it.
These threads remind me of the corporate world and legal world all too much. We have these meetings to discuss topics. Well they're usually scheduled for an hour. the first 15 minutes of a meeting are the most productive. The other 45 minutes are going over the first 15 minutes, but in different wording. Lawyers also say the same things over and over to a Jury, but they reword it each iteration.
the same thing is going on for this BH vs Pistoleer threads. It's over. The subject is dead.
It comes down to this question: Why would you spend 50 solid hours and 160 Skillpoints just toget to an elite profession that completely sux, when you can spend 5 hours to get a combat profession that rocks?
The ammount of time spent to obtain a goal should have a huge base on the professions powers and skills. Why should a Novice weapon smith be able to make better DLT20a's than a Master weaponsmith? (not that they can, but it's a similar question to push a point)