Pistoleer Archive
Thread: The Way Dual Wield should be Implemented
ThisIsTheMatrix
Fri Jul 30, 2004 5:01 pm
#27
thanks again with your responses.
The idea of Duel Wielding 2 different types of pistols (mostly to have 2 different types of damage) has been around awhile also. It would seem a bit more difficult to implement that rather than two of the same, but still not impossible in the least.
My idea for doing this would probably be first and foremost that you must have the Duel Wielding certification for both of the pistols you are planning to duel wield. Then probably make it quite simple and use your +duel wielding mod the same. Just two of the same +#
example: you have a mod of +75 and would like to duel wield a scatter pistol and a republic blaster. You would take the +75 mod you have and compare it to the first pistol scatter
+75 mod cancels out -75 for the scatter. No Penalties
then take the republic(-65)
+75 mod cancels out the -65 for the republic. No penalties.
Simple yet seems to be effecient
Now for MetallicaJunkie's response, it got me thinking on the weapon switch delay that seems to hurt BH's the most, and since I am one, look for a solution to not make the impact on us as harsh.
My original idea on it was
Master 2/3 of the combat lines in the BH profession= -1 second off the delay
Master 3/3 of the combat lines in the BH profession= -1 second off the delay
Master BH= -1 second off the delay
Soo at master BH, no delay on weapon switching, same can be put in say commando (never been one but they might switch weapons alot too). The mods for -1 second can be switched around to say -.5 seconds at the top of the line of each tree
Investigation 4, LLC 4, pistols 4, carbines 4, then -1 second on master, therefore no delay.
But since this BH only mod might be too good to give to just BH since every profession might in some time switch weapons, I thought of another solution which almost coincides with MetallicaJunkie's question on how Id implement a 1 sword 1 pistol duel wield.
I read alot of petitions on holsters, and places to put your swords/rifles/all weapons. Now besides the cool look of them, they should serve a purpose I thought.
How about if their are two kinds of holsters (i forget what they are called for swords, i believe something like sheeth, but dont want to use the wrong word many times soo ill use holsters throughout idea). They are the ones for around your waste (carries pistols/fencers' swords) and back ones (rifles/carbines/two-handed swords/pikemans poles). You are limited to one back holster, and can wear 2 belt ones (but must be a left and a right).
You are probably reading it saying to yourselfs "now what is he talking about".
So to get around a weapon switch timer. You can have 3 weapons attached to you VIA holsters. Say 1 pistol/ 1 one-handed sword, and a big weapon, like heavy weapon or a rifle. Now in combat you can hit in the combat box and line up your attacks like this
concealshot
eyeshot
headshot3
torsoshot
one-handed hit 3
These attacks are then all performed without the user hitting another button, like hotkeying and switching weapons. Since they are all holstered on you. You will whip out the rifle hit conceal shot, and instead of the 3 second delay, you have the normal 1 second or whatever your speed til next shot is, and during that time you see your character put away the rifle with one hand while whipping out the pistol with the other, then back to rifle, then pistol, then the sword. This adds strategy, since you can put only 3 weapons (maybe cut it down to 2 weapons?) holstered. And only those weapons bypass the weapon switch timer. Soo people can now do many combos with those weapons and have cool animations with the character pulling out and putting away his weapons. He also will look like a soldier with weapons strapped all around him.
Now this was alot easier to explain to someone in words in person than to type down in this post hehe.
This is also just like a brainstorming thing. For as long as I have played games, every game i played too. I thought of everything I can to improve, or to just think of ideas I would like in the game, and this game isno different. I have many ideas for almost every aspect of this game. I thought of this idea today actually in around 5min and decided to post it in this forum.
Tell me what you think of this idea as well.
gunganboy
Fri Jul 30, 2004 8:41 pm
#28
well with the dual weilding ya know the example of 100-300+100-300= 200-600=400
well what if someone owned a gun with 60-450+40-550=100-1000 does that mean that the damage the pistoleer will be dishing out will be 900max?isnt that a bit extreme?
Zyzix564
Fri Jul 30, 2004 10:00 pm
#29
THIS GUY, THIS GUY HERE, THIS IS THE GUY!
I think its the best way to implement it! BRAVO!
BryianN
Fri Jul 30, 2004 11:06 pm
#30
The only problem I can see with this you don't fire two pistols at the same time, you'd fire one after another.
Shouldn't it be a speed increase instead of a damage? It will still do two times the DPS of one gun but it just won't hit for 300 damage evry second it would hit for 150 every second
But back to the topic, this would be very simple to impliment, all you would have to do is change some animations and change one formula
The formula for damage is simple:
Assuming:
dm1 means (damage min gun 1)
dm2 means (damage min gun 2)
dx1 means (damage max gun 1)
dx2 means (damage max gun 2)
Basically you just add the min and max damage of both guns. This of course would mean you could use any two guns of the same type and still use the simple formula.
Now of course using the DPS formula:
DPS = M[(Wmin+Wmax)/2]/(S x D) x [(100-p)/100]
Why not if wielding two guns just remove the 2 in [(Wmin+Wmax)/2]? This would be such a simple fix and it would add twice as much damage per second as which utilizing two guns with IDENTICLE stats. With identicle guns this is quite simple.
With two different guns (same gun type just different stats) the formula could be just as simple. Instead of using:
[(Wmin+Wmax)/2] just use [(dmx1+dmx2+dm1+dm2)/2].
Calculating the differences in speed would be different and would base on how the developers want to impliment duel welding.
Again remember, all I'm saying is the DEVS could easily impliment this by changing animation and changing the DPS formula around a little. Of course this game is turned base and not really DPS based but still a fun little post for me
Also what about cool special moves maybe these could work:
combo: hits body + head for dealing health and mind damage.
double kneecap hit: hits both knee caps knocking the target off of their feet causing kd/dizzy
double face hit: A very, very powerful pistol attack that causes stun + dizzy + blind and deals massive mind damage, yet has a long delay for aiming cost.
I don't know maybe you guys like?
Shouldn't it be a speed increase instead of a damage? It will still do two times the DPS of one gun but it just won't hit for 300 damage evry second it would hit for 150 every second
But back to the topic, this would be very simple to impliment, all you would have to do is change some animations and change one formula
The formula for damage is simple:
Assuming:
dm1 means (damage min gun 1)
dm2 means (damage min gun 2)
dx1 means (damage max gun 1)
dx2 means (damage max gun 2)
Basically you just add the min and max damage of both guns. This of course would mean you could use any two guns of the same type and still use the simple formula.
Now of course using the DPS formula:
DPS = M[(Wmin+Wmax)/2]/(S x D) x [(100-p)/100]
Why not if wielding two guns just remove the 2 in [(Wmin+Wmax)/2]? This would be such a simple fix and it would add twice as much damage per second as which utilizing two guns with IDENTICLE stats. With identicle guns this is quite simple.
With two different guns (same gun type just different stats) the formula could be just as simple. Instead of using:
[(Wmin+Wmax)/2] just use [(dmx1+dmx2+dm1+dm2)/2].
Calculating the differences in speed would be different and would base on how the developers want to impliment duel welding.
Again remember, all I'm saying is the DEVS could easily impliment this by changing animation and changing the DPS formula around a little. Of course this game is turned base and not really DPS based but still a fun little post for me
Also what about cool special moves maybe these could work:
combo: hits body + head for dealing health and mind damage.
double kneecap hit: hits both knee caps knocking the target off of their feet causing kd/dizzy
double face hit: A very, very powerful pistol attack that causes stun + dizzy + blind and deals massive mind damage, yet has a long delay for aiming cost.
I don't know maybe you guys like?
ThisIsTheMatrix
Sat Jul 31, 2004 6:35 am
#32
I do like those dual weild specials and the formula you used seems to make sense as well. I hope though if this is implemented that it is completely balanced along with the whole game. Ifus and the fencers get this, maybe all thecombat treesshould get some sort of cool addition like we would get with the dual weild.
rofak
Sat Jul 31, 2004 8:47 am
#33
1. Should you need two pistols for Dual-Wield?
2. If so, will you be able to use two different types of pistols? Ex. a CDEF and a DX2.
Paulius
Sat Jul 31, 2004 9:45 am
#34
Ok this is by far the coolest and most detailed thread on the subject to date however I have two problems
1. Mast Bounty Hunter seems a bit harsh for Scatter duel, why not change bounty hunter pistols IV and III and make IV have scatter pistol dual
2. What about off hand? I know I'm quoting the Dungeons and Dragons book now but which hand is your off hand? Should your off hand be able to hold a weapon the same weight as your usual hand without minuses?
1. Mast Bounty Hunter seems a bit harsh for Scatter duel, why not change bounty hunter pistols IV and III and make IV have scatter pistol dual
2. What about off hand? I know I'm quoting the Dungeons and Dragons book now but which hand is your off hand? Should your off hand be able to hold a weapon the same weight as your usual hand without minuses?
FWG5 with Scount Blaster (that should be fine because its a big pistol with a little pistol)
DE10 with DE10 (ok i think i see some MINOR minuses in this)
DE10 with DE10 (ok i think i see some MINOR minuses in this)
ThisIsTheMatrix
Sat Jul 31, 2004 2:10 pm
#35
1) I put the cert for duel wielding the scatter at the master box, because being a master myself, that box has no value but the title. Putting this at the master box would be a nice bonus for the people that have mastered BH. But they would still need to dabble in pistoleer to use it without penalties. This, unless we get something sweet like we dont have to see an informant or such, would at least be a reward rather than the current reward now (-1 skill point)
2) I believe in this game if their was an off hand it would have to be left, even though I always wanted my guy to be left handed like me but didnt have that choice. But Id imagine once you get all the mods needed to duel weild any gun, that is kind of like saying that you have practiced enough with 2 guns that your off hand isnt really worse than the normal one. Like if I was a master pistoleer in the real world (i dont know what youd consider master tho) I would think that I am extremely dangerous with either hand.
rofak
Sun Aug 01, 2004 10:58 am
#37
Again:
1. Should you need two pistols for Dual-Wield?
2. If so, will you be able to use two different types of pistols? Ex. a CDEF and a DX2.
ThisIsTheMatrix
Mon Aug 02, 2004 12:07 am
#38
I covered the 2 different types of pistol thing a few posts up, and yes you would need to buy 2 pistols then equip both
Isendale
Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:21 am
#39
Wow. So beautiful...makes me want to cry. 
Only think I'm rather against is the DE-10 cert stuff, but that's just me. I don't have enough skill points to master marksman, as well. 