Pistoleer Archive
Thread: OMG PISTOLEER IS SO BROKEN
Phearing wrote:
Inhocmark = TARD
You my friend are what we like to call an idiot. If you needed 4100k combat xp alone I would feel for you. I would sympathize with you. BUT YOU GET ALL OF IT NATURALLY WITH YOUR PISTOL XP YOU IDIOT. You need 4 million pistol xp, which means (WITHOUT GRINDING OR TRYING TO) you get 400k combat xp. You don't even know how your own class works.
I only need 3,610,000 Weapon XP. The combat XP comes to 4,100,000. That means I have effectively 1 more box of Master Level Pistol XP above what I am currently making to hit it.
I was merely showing that all this comparison based on the amount of skill points was folly.
It's a shame you ruin what could possibly be a very good point by trying to be uber cool and call me names.
As for the person who did make a very good point about the LLC and the Investigation. You're probably right...it's not a fair comparison, but to turn it around, it wasn't fair for me to give you 1 for 1 on the Scout XP. I mean all those weapon grinds up to master take care of the scout XP.
My whole point is that I'm really tired of Bounty Hunters coming in here and trying to start flame wars.I don't believe we are right to go actively looking for Bounty Hunters to be nerfed (and I never got that impression from what was posted here).
The main grip of most people was that after 3.6 Million Pistol XP and 410,000 Combat XP a Bounty Hunter who put 1/4 of the experience into Pistol and not even close to the same amount of combat XP were getting pistol that blew ours out of the water. That the "MASTER OF THE PISTOL" was being beaten out by a Jack of All Trades Human Hunter. Sort of made the specialization worthless in a lot of people's eyes.
One last note, your example of the Pistol Whip being an uber weapon...It was, and I am the first to admit that. But it also costs 60k Combat XP (600,000 Weapon XP) for a skill that is hovering around the same power level as a skill that is given to Bounty Hunters with 150k Weapon XP.
Let me reiterate before I get more wonderful flame attempts like the one above: Bounty Hunters work hard for what they have. They give up a lot of customization to be able to go up the class. But they should also be considered a proficient Jack of All Trades. A BH that goes toe to toe in a pistol duel with a Pistoleer should not be winning straight up. Same with any of the hybrid ranged combat classes. Wherea BH should excell is in how he uses his tools. Going up against a pistoleer? Grab that rifle and hit him out of range....The Rifleman is your target? Grab your pistol and go in close for the kill. A BH should not stack up even against a Master Pistoleer/Rifleman/Carbineer in their chosen fields, instead should use their wide array of skills to exploit an enemy weakness.
Now I love to discuss, but if you're going to ruin your point by showing a complete lack of respect for my opinion, hold yours...and lets just end the parade of Bounty Hunters who come in here to state the same dull boring arguments over and over.
Pistoleer is like an Apple.
Bounty Hunter is a fruit salad.
Phearing wrote:
They should NOT be finished at Pistoleer, and after spending 93 points they shouldn't be owning ANYONE hands down, the way they seem to want to.
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I think the point he is trying to make is if a pistoler and a BH dueled, the BH should win, but not with a pistol in his hand. Also, I haven't looked at the points to see if it's even possible, but from what I am reading, if you did Master Pistol/Carbide/Rifle you would still be weaker then a BH.
I only have one Pistoler box, and only got it cuz I had the points anyway. So I have no biased opinion. But if what he said is true, that a BH can use a more powerful pistol then a pistoler, that's just wrong. They both should be able to use the same pistols at least.
The closest comparison I can make is the decathlon in the Olympics. Other then VERY rare exceptions, no decathlete can remotely compete in any one event against the people specialized in that event.
Pistoleers should be better with pistols, because of the focus. BH should be able to use a variety of weaponry to kill. That should be their advantage. Same goes for riflemen, carbineers, etc..Unfortunately, many skills across the board on all professions are messed up so we cannot accurately judge who should win what. The goal of these elite professions is not to dominate the pvp wars. Then we'd all be bounty hunters. Its to provide different avenues of attack and battle. BHs have the most tools up their sleeves so should be better IF they had proper use of those tools(which they don't with broken stuff).
"Why do bounty hunters think they should all be elite killers? Every one has died a pathetic death. Pistoleers should be better with pistols, because of the focus. BH should be able to use a variety of weaponry to kill. That should be their advantage. Same goes for riflemen, carbineers, etc..Unfortunately, many skills across the board on all professions are messed up so we cannot accurately judge who should win what. The goal of these elite professions is not to dominate the pvp wars. Then we'd all be bounty hunters. Its to provide different avenues of attack and battle. BHs have the most tools up their sleeves so should be better IF they had proper use of those tools(which they don't with broken stuff)."
While I do agree with you, I do have a countering argument. Let's say you are a Bounty Hunter. You don't really grind, but you have reached the point where you don't need anymore weapons experience. You still have bounties to take care of so with your remaining 33 skill points you dump a couple of points into medic, because you will need to heal yourself a couple times against a 10-15k HAM mark that is AR2 and has a bunch of 40% resists. You also decide to pick up CH to make your life as a BH easier. Let the mark beat on my level 25 pet instead of me. (In case you didn't know a tactic for killing a mark was bleed and run aka kiting it.. but SoE just nerfed it so any bleed damage is lost xp). Now you are a Master BH with the rest of your skill points used... now what?
We don't have 150+ extra points to dump into another weapon line, or entertainer, or artisan. Those 33 points we have are used to supplement ourselves as a BH. What is there left for a BH to do except PvE bounties? There is bounties, and there is PvP. Well after killing 500 or so marks to get our Investigations xp at some point we will PvP.
In fact, if we don't do bounties it is the only real choice we have. Knowing that we have spent ALL of our skill points it would be nice to know that we can compete with other professions. In fact it sickens us that we have to spend 217 points only to have another class (that is much easier to level with and hit master) be just as good, if not better than us. It sickens us even more that the class wants to be better than us after spending a little more than 1/3 of their skill points, which is the general consensus on this board.
I agree with you that the advantage to the BH is that they have 3 different weapons that they have specialized in. Pistols should be horrible form 35m+. They should be 50/50 from 35mto around15m, and under 10-15m they should always hit. If that was the case I'd be glad to let you be 2x as powerful as we are with pistols. I would write to the Devs myself. If I catch you from range you die from my carbine. If you close to ideal pistol range I will most likely die. This isn't the current situation though. Pistols are still very accurateat 64m, and there is no disadvantage to your class. That is the real gripe we have with you, plus your constant cries about how BH's need to be nerfed so you can be better. Instead of asking to be better most here seem to ask for a BH nerf instead.
I really think its funny that a BH thinks he should be some combat miracle. A commando should kill him easily in an agreed duel. If it's a PC bounty gloves are off. A pistoleer should wipe the floor with a BH in pistol period. Do you Bhs really think that you should be able to beat someone with specialty training straight up?
I think the real problem is everyone "thinks" thinks being the operative word, that BH is cool. Thats the problem. From what I have seen in the movies Bhs are not the greatest combat specialists. That is what we call Commandos. Get over your coolness and think for once.BH is in no way the be all end all combat class in the SW universe. Nor should it be. If the bounty hunter makes a mistake using his "other" skills then he should get his ass handed to him.
Another thing, just because a BH maxes out his combat xp doesnt make it worthless or a "so what type of issue"all of a sudden because he doesnt need it. Without it, a pistoleer cannot become a master pistoleer. I just got pistol melee with 60k combat xp. Regardless 60k and 40k sucks in my opinion.
Most of the time. If someone has more combat experience than you they usually win.
After this patch, I wonder what color nerf toy Pistoleers are?
hopefully blue, blue is a good color.
Bounty Hunters are nota pure combat class. They are 1/3 scout, and have trackingskills in the BH tree. They are adiverse profession, and that'swhy they shouldn't be PvP gods.
Inhocmark wrote:
I don't believe we are right to go actively looking for Bounty Hunters to be nerfed (and I never got that impression from what was posted here).
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=pistoleer&message.id=2861
ISSUE #5: Bounty Hunter vs Master Pistoleer
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1. Bounty hunters competing for title of best pistol user makes most pistoleers wonder why they are master pistol users in title only.
2. Having more general accuracy and pistol speed makes bounty hunters more effective with most weapons without using specials.
3. Bounty Hunter direct damage (only) specials seem to have both higher damage, better target (eye shot hits mind pool?), and special effects stacked with them (torso shot with fire/wounding DOT, eye shot with Blind effect).
4. Bounty Hunters have a high damage AR 1 scatter pistol
5. It takes less time and far less XP to become pistol 4 in bounty hunter as compared to master in pistoleer, yet they compete readily, if not more favorably when using a pistol.
6. Lack of defense, "if defense is fixed" can be circumvented by just purchasing a defensive line (pistol stances/grips and tactics, for instance), it's not currently something that limits a bounty hunter.
7. Some use the argument "but bounty hunters can't have both healing and defense from the pistol line", thus they are limited. But note, they can if the don’t max bounty hunter, and they don't necessarily need medic skills since they can target mind pool, thus removing any opponent's advantage that might have gained from purchasing medic/doctor/combat medic healing.
Where in that issues list did it say "I want BHs NERFED!" Can't find it? Know why? It's not bloody THERE!
The Correspondant (sorry to speak for you if I'm wrong) was saying that someone who did NOTHING but pick up Bounty Pistol 4 would be better than a person who did NOTHING but pick up Master Pistoleer. Yes, in most situations this is null and void because people don't just crouch down during a fight, they stand and move. I am not saying this is a valid issue, I'm not saying it isn't either.
What I AM saying is that it is not asking for anyone to be nerfed, here let me repeat that for ya IT IS NOT ASKING FOR ANYONE TO BE NERFED. Now just TRY to understand for one second where our correspondant (represents the AVERAGE pistoleer, not ALL Pistoleers) was coming from? He feels that for a class with 3 weapon lines (admitadely LLC doesn't work, but at that time, Carbine worked fine) they should not be better with a Pistol than a class that specializes ONLY in pistol.
This was also early on, when we were still in the dark about a lot of things (I guess we still are) So excuse him for wording it so that not every man and his monkey could understand EXACTLY what it meant.
Now I do not agree with all of this, but I do understand it, which appears to be beyond most people,they either agree with it or want it burned at the stake.
I think it's really funny that you mention Commando should own all. One quick hop over to the Commando forum and you'll see a ton of people jumping ship because Commandos can't defeat anything. It's a really sad thing beause lots of people may leave the game because of this, me being one of them.
But when commandos train in unarmed combat along with marksman and then in heavy weapons once they do reach novice commando, one would think they'd own all. If you look at it, the unarmed combat XP is not needed for either pistoleer or BH, so it's an extra tree for commandos to train in. Thus overall, if you were to compare masters of pistoleer BH and Commando, the commando should have more (keeping in mind the BH was smart enough to kill mostly animals such that they could harvest what they kill using their guns). But the devs see otherwise and make commandos to be suicide bombers with Heavy Weapons' ideal range being 0.
So if one truly believes that "pistoleer is so broken," then by all means, "commando must be oh soooooooo veeery broken." at least you guys would look cool twirling your guns, whereas people get mad at us for causing lag using out launcher pistols.
Please stop crying about the amount of boxes you need to fill. Most of those boxes are Basic. Those are simple. You go out and kill animals you're gaining all your XP at the same time.
And Phearing, in your big rush to call me names and show how cool you are you missed the main point of my argument. Bounty Hunters aren't supposed to be Combat Monsters. They are supposed to use their guile and cunning to overcome.
BH against any of the master combat classes toe to toe IN THE COMBAT MASTERS CHOSEN WEAPON, the Bounty Hunter SHOULD NOT WIN. Meaning you stand in the open and fire your pistol at a master pistoleer, he should OWN YOU HARD.
Where the bounty hunter's strength should lie is in their ability to set traps, probably run a lot faster than the Pistoleer, get out of range and hit with their other weapons.
I don't want you class nerfed...I just feel that with the 3.6 Million Pistol XP I put in and the 400k Combat experience, I should have weapons that give me more bang for my buck than a DX2. It's not right that a Bounty Hunter has better pistols than a pistoleer...It's the equivalent to a Scout being able to heal massive amounts of damage more than a medic.
And for the fact you put more boxes into BH....Well that's the point. a Bounty Hunter is the solo artist, He needs all the tools to survive and with the skills he has to take, he should have them. But just because you spend all of 33 skill points does not make a sound arguement for why you should be beating a Master Pistoleer with a pistol.
However, I DO have a problem with those BH's who think that they should be uniquely powerfull in Ranged combat. Why? In any definition, a bounty hunter is more of a detective, not some Warrior God. IMO, A commando (also an elite class) should be able to wipe the floor with a BH. Commando's are the ones trained in the art of war, rather than tracking down the guy that skipped out on his Alimony. There is just no justification for BH's to think they should be the single most powerfull Ranged Combat class.
Just my opinion
Wyelde
Inhocmark = TARD
You my friend are what we like to call an idiot. If you needed 4100k combat xp alone I would feel for you. I would sympathize with you. BUT YOU GET ALL OF IT NATURALLY WITH YOUR PISTOL XP YOU IDIOT. You need 4 million pistol xp, which means (WITHOUT GRINDING OR TRYING TO) you get 400k combat xp. You don't even know how your own class works.