Pistoleer Archive
Thread: a 230+ pt pistol master
Dragonian wrote:
However dabblers by their very nature are abusing the game mechanics and tend to abuse the advantage it gives them. This causes those unaware of the situation to draw inaccurate conclusions about given classes.
This is the danger of dabblers. This is why the professions need to be balanced in ways the do not encourage the practice.
Don't agree with you I'm afraid.
Everyone arguing the "Dabblers are Evil" position basically doesn't like being owned in PvP...
If someone researched a great PvP combo, more power to them. If somebody else doesn't know how to mix an match skills from all professions to optimize their character then that's their problem. AND (especially) if they are mislead by 'titles' when the weapon in hand and the specials listed in your combat spamgive away your opponent's secret weapons to own you... Well that's just being, for lack of a better word: dense.
I've died 99% of the time I have found myself in a PvP situation but I am:
Artisian 1-0-0-4, Medic 3-2-2-4, Entertainer 0-0-0-0, Scout 4-0-4-2, Pistoleer 0-2-1-1, Creature Handler 0-0-0-0 (just to collect a few pets for fun)
It doesn't bother me a bit to die buy somebody who flames for me 2000 pts as he steps off the Shuttle or the guy who hits me with lowblow & a stopping shot. Right now I'm going to die anyway. When I finallymaster medic & pistoleer... I'll still die to the dedicated PvPer. 
I just cringe everytime I hear the word 'balance'. I want to get owned sometimes & I want to own sometimes. I also want to dabble.
Ovid Delsis
Taewyn wrote:
Why did he not spend 250 skill points as well? Why should your 250 skill points be more powerful then his 250? Because you spent them on mastering two? While he picked out the perfect combination of 5?
The reason your so free to spend so many skill points is because this game is not a class based game.....A master is not always as good as somone who knows a little of everything.
Nobody said my 250 skill points should be more powerful than someone elses, but I do think that the additional xp I invested should mean something. Why should a player who earns 150,000 xp here and there in various different weapon skills become more powerful than a character who not only had to spend 150,000 to learn similiar skills, but also had to go incrementally higher and higher in xp as he climbed the charts to Master? It's not inconceivable that a Master level player might have to earn 2 to 3 times the total experience points in order to attain his Master title than a person who simply dabbles in the first couple of tiers in 3 or 4 professions. In a game in which all players have the same number of skill points to utilize, those who invest more time and effort toward gaining experience in their chosen professions should have an advantage over those who only invest a small number of xp in a variety of professions. As I said above, the added xp a Master must earn should not be for nothing. Why else then put in the additional effort?
Moreover, a dabbler character should not be overwhelmingly powerful in one specific skill. By it's very nature dabbling should produce a balanced template. One in which a character is pretty good at a number of things, but not the best at any. The way the SWG system has been set up, however, results in dabbler templates that create characters who are more powerful with various weapons than those who have invested the additional time and xp to supposedly "master" those weapons. It makes little sense that a player should be able to take up just enough medic skill to be able to heal himself completely with each heal use (any Novice Medic can use Stim B's), be able to harvest resources off kills, have terrain negotiation bonuses, keep a variety of mid to high level pets, and be better with certain weapons than masters of those weapon classes. There's nothing wrong with being able to do all those things with one character template, but being able to do all of them as well or better than those who have invested the xp to reach Master in those professions makes no sense at all. A character who wishes to dabble should do so with the realization that he's going to be pretty good at a number of skills, but not great at any of them. However, as it sits right now, a player can dabble and be pretty good atsome skills, but great at most of them.
There is something wrong with dabbling, all the dabblers are causing the whiners they kill in PVP to cry for nerfs of Elite Professions. When the nerf bat comes what do dabblers do change to dabble in the next flavor of the month, leaving the profession the used to dabble in nerfed. If you master a profession that's not dabbling, so those Master Smuggler/Pistoleer/TKA combos are fine with me because you are mastering professions. What Dabblers will eventually cause to happen is the DEVS are going to move all the good specials to the Master box of every profession then what will Dabblers do.
Let's also be realistic a pistol should not be the best weapon in the game, there should be weaknesses to pistols, but as it stands there really aren't look at it low ham cost, fastest weapon, does equal damage to some heavy weapons, so why would anyone want to use anything else. I guess explains why pistoleer is the second most popular profession in this game at 6.76% over all the servers rifleman is next at 1.98% that is a big discrepency, and look at carbineer it's even lower at 1.47%. I bet if they gave stats on how many Master pistoleers there were it would beat all classes by far except maybe CH. So Dabblers do have a major effect on the game maybe that's why I can't find a good carbine because pistols are so much in demand that weaponsmiths hardly waste anytime making high quality carbines.
Battosai, you are saying that you should master professions only, and if you cant afford to master another one, then you should just not use your remaining skillpoints. You sir, are an idiot.
I dont understand why anyone would not want to find the most powerful combination template for their tastes. And if the devs didnt make master worth getting, why waste precious skillpoints. As soon as they make master professions 4x as good as any one of the four skill trees REQUIREDto make master, then sure, ill use the skillpoints to get there. And i dont see many master level skills that are worth it as of yet. It's not the "dabbler's" fault the devs here are too stupid to give master level an uber skill. Oh well.
-Snape
Let me get this straight....
Dabbling is bad because misinformed people think the titles people pvp in ,are the ones that kill them and sothey yell for nerfs? - this is not a 'dabblers' fault, he cannot stem the shouts of nerf. He obviously is not one calling for it.
Masters should be all powerfull because of why? That is a magical one pt or something? - u do not get the boxes to get master.... U get the boxes to build skills.... the master is really only a title... It is reflected by the 1 point.
U are saying that pistoleers are the favorite because they are too powerfull? - They seem to be the favored because they are the only weapon that u can mix 4 professions in.
I seen one joe talking about how dabblers are spreading thin and uber in all....where are these guys?Novice medic will allow u to use 420stim B's where I live... and those are the highest we can get... I run around with 350's cause they are more cost efficient .I have never zonked myself for more than 600. I cannot run up hills, always made fun of on the hunts for being the slowest, cannot sell anything from my skills except if is in the mob's pockets...basically can only do missions for cold creds.
Anyone to get to be in the upper damage output category has to spend alot of combat oriented skill points. If they did not, then they are going to have others that are more capable than they are... - by the waydon't BH Masters have marksman and scout and split their energies between 3 weapons? Maybe these are the gentlemen who can with a novice medic skill, heal themselves, run up hillls, scout, harvest, and spend 1 row dedicated to 1 weapon and be better than most masters. ( I couldn't resist, lol)
Lets look at it this way, if u take a profession like BH. Did u get involved in the profession to hunt bounties or be the best in PvP/PvE? I look at it like this:
You guys are going to be running around to remote places of the planets. U are going to need terrain negotiation and the ability to build camps, to get the small specials on your weapons before u made master u had to have the pistol, carbine, and ranged support columns in marksman.... these things are where your points went to, not your weapons fully when u consider the scout and the marksman was to get u by with thelower skills.the wayI see it - a BH took 2 columnsof pistol and 2 columns of carbine and 1 column of LLC. Yea u can say u had to spend the points to get it... but u did not really spend those points on weapons, U spent those points to harvest, climb terrain,etc.... a pistoleer spends 5 columns in pistol as I see it. he spent less points... but if he takes the scout master like u did and the marksman so he can use rifles and carbines, and kick out supp. fire and warning shotlike u can... then he will spend as much and still not be as good as a BH in carbine or get a LLC ever.
All the dabblers do is cut off the fat, I cannot Harvest my kills.... I spent those points in aquiring more pistol.
Uben Haum'Qui -bss-
Kauri
MastersSHOULD be far more powerful because to get it you MUST, whether you want them or not, get all four skill trees ina profession to aquire it. But you are right, as of now its not, so why waste the time, effort, and skillpoints. Oh well.
-Snape
Master is a way of saying u did the whole thing. I took all of Pistoleer not because I wanted the master. I took it for all the bonuses and specials. When I got to the top it was only 1 pt to master and get a little xtra bonus... so I took it... heck it was only one point. By the way I hear some of them propose it... it is like u might as well move everything to master, because alot seem to go through all that to get the master.
I look at each individual box and its costs. Then I decide if it is worth the points...
I think a Dabbler should be able to own everyone because he chose the the skills to get the job done. The only problem i see with it is that the Devs didn't have the farsight to give rifles and carbines the the extras to dabble in.
I think they should make the LLC a rifle so that BH can specialize in any of the ranged weapons and that Ranger should have a rifle line and Squadleader or Comando have a carbine line that way pistoleer wouldn't be just a "dabbler" class and they could balance out our class evenly with rifle and carbines in these patches.
I have no problem with dabblers. I have a problem with a system that allows dabbler templates to be more powerful than Master level combat professions. If somebody wants to divide up his skill points amongst 4 or 5 different professions, so be it. But in the end, he should not have a template that is more powerful than a character who is a Master of 2 elite professions. The title "Master" should mean something. The added xp involved should not be for nothing. A Master of his/her chosen profession should be better than someone who only dabbles in it.
Why did he not spend 250 skill points as well? Why should your 250 skill points be more powerful then his 250? Because you spent them on mastering two? While he picked out the perfect combination of 5?
The reason your so free to spend so many skill points is because this game is not a class based game.....A master is not always as good as somone who knows a little of everything.
Bingchudie I can't agree with you more. What's wrong with people not undertanding their place in the galaxy? Just because you master Pistoleer, do you think that there is NOTHING else to learn about using pistols? I can attest this to martial arts and the different styles they have. Think about it... Who would probably be better in a fight? Someone who ONLY knows Kung Fu and has mastered kung fu, OR, someone who's almost mastered Kung Fu, Karate, Taikwando, Akido, and can use the best of each one of those arts to become the most effective fighter at each part. Of course the person who can adapt and use the best aspects of each art to culminate into one fighting unit will probably win, even though it'll be close.
If you are a specialist at something, you inherently have a weakness. In order to defeat you at that, even though you are a specialist, you need to find a way to exploit that weakness. If that means learning everything you do and learning something else (IE, combining aspects of BH and pistoleer vrs. just a master pistoleer) then so be it.. You've done your homework and you deserve to win.
And for the record, that's exactly what I'm doing. I'm a BH expert and a Pistoleer(almost Master)... I expect to get owned by carbineers who use ranged knockdown, or commandos who flame me or whatever other class that people are dabbling in to get the most benefit out of it. My character is designed not for PvP. It's designed for group work and mission work, especially soloing. I know that I will not be able to out-heal doctors even though I have skills in medic. I have to accept that because why?? I haven't put the skills necessary to beat them in it. That's why I need their expertise when grouping. Creature handlers who do the same types of things, dabbling, taking some in TKA for the defenses and taking swordsmen for the power hammer, hey, those guys deserve the recognition they get... If you want to beat them or don't want to get beat by them, figure out their weakness, exploit it or switch to that same class.. Guess what, you can do any of those..
Quit whining and just do some figuring out for yourself!!!!!!!
I agree, most people think being a master pistoleer, should make you master of all pistols, but that is just not the way it works in game or in RL.
I am pretty good with a gun, not completly awsome with one, but I know how to hit a target, even a moving one (which is hard to do for those who dont know).
Now I have met people who can only beconsidered "master pistoleers", these guys can do it all, quick draws, trick shots, even hitting multiple moving targets within second, with perfect accuracy.....Truly amazing with a pistol.
On the other hand, my brother is a Marine, he scored the highest accuracy rating in boot camp possible. He knows exactly where to aim to inflict serious wounds, and or death. He knows how to make each bullet count....
One one hand the master pistoleers know alot of tricks, and most likley can drop anyone with a few shots, however on the other hand trained soldiers also know a few tricks with the same style weapon......Just because somebody knows all the tricks, and pistols does not meen they know everything....
There is one constant in life, there will ALWAYS be somone better then you....
I have no problems with players who dabble, its the really great thing about this game and it gives you alot of flexibility.