Pistoleer Archive

So following the logic of half the people in this thread, if you spend all 250 of your skill points in a variety of classes instead of just a select few, you should have a character that is tougher than those who choose to master professions. Continuing on that line of thinking, it doesn't really matter if you don't actually have to gain any more experience points in creating dabbler templates, it's only the skill points that matter. Experience points really has nothing to do with it, skill points is what decides how powerful your character should be. Therefore, if I spend 450,000 experience points to reach Pistol Marksmanship 4, but it only costs me 2 skill points, it should beweaker than a level 1 skill, which would onlycost 175,000 xp, but wouldcostme5 skillpoints. Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it? But it's just following the "it's the number of skill points you use" logic of a good number of people in this thread. Heck, a guy even has the nerve to complain that he "only" gets to heal himself for about 600 damage using Stim B 350's with Novice Medic (which, like all beginner Novice skills, requires zero xp).

Taking this a step further,a player shouldbe able to take Novice Entertainer to get the battle fatigue healing, Novice Medic to get use of Stim B's, Scoutfor Terrain Negotiation, Camping, and Harvesting, Marksman for Pistols and Ranged Support, Brawler with unarmed for melee, and dabble a little in Pistoleer enough to get Stopping Shot and some speed and accuracy bonuses. By the rationale of a lot of people on this forum, such a character should be every bit as powerful as a Master Pistoleer/Master Ranger, since both used the same number of skill points. In fact, many have even argued that a dabbler should be more powerful than a master. Never mind that in the above circumstance the dabbler would need to earn less than half the experience points that the master would. If they both used all their skill points, both should be equal in combat. Yeah, that makes sense.

Come to think of it, I think this notion that skill should have nothing to do with mastering professions or experience points should be moved outside of the combat aspect of this game as well. I should be able to dabble a little bit in Weaponsmith, Armorsmith, Tailor, Architect, and Chef, and as long as I spend all 250 of my xp, I should be able to make a set of armor as good as any that a Master Armorsmith could make. After all, they're my skill points, I should be able to use them however I want. Who are you to tell me my armor shouldn't be as good as a Master Armorsmith's? In fact, as a dabbler I deserve to be able to make a set of armor better than what a Master Armorsmith can make!

I think in this thread are a large number of good very good arguments.
And i try to add my argument now:

Take a look at the Pistoleer Skilltree:

One Skilltree: Worthless (with Bodyshot 3 and some dodge thingie)
One Skilltree: Only Skillmods with Accuracy
One Skilltree: Only Styles and Defenses (Nice One)
One Skilltree: Speed (best part), skill mods and styles.

Thats why it is so easy to dabble in.... you pick one row - perfect.

If the DEVs put the best things equal split of at the 4. point of each row. Then the dabblers would be cut out and the master is really worth it.

Put the good styles and speed mods in the last skill box of each row in addition that the first box of each row gives you really really less things. Make the Novice Skillbox costs 1 skill point and the Master Box to 6 skill points.

And make it like it was in beta: 2, 3, 4 and 5 Skillpoints ascending. Now its 5, 4, 3 and 2 points. So if you want to dabble you can. Get some skills here and some there. But you never would be better with Pistols then the Master Pistoleer or you never would be better with Carabine as the Master Carabine.

Maybe in the summary of your skills and dabbling your OVERALL Score or personal skill brings you to the point where you can beat a Master Pistoleer/Carabiner with the weapon without being Master but thats a different story.

At the end one another analogy: Getting Medicine Crafting to Skill Box 4 and bringing Artisan Engineering to Skill box 4 doesn't makes you able to craft better stims then a Master Medic. Thats the point for nerf shouting.

The progress and advancement should not be a simple summary of skill points cause it isn't. It should be expontential.
Adding: BH Pistol 4 + Pistoler 0/4/0/4 = better then Pistoleer Master with Master Marksman

It should be: for more specialization you do, the better you get. less specialization less power.

The Problem is that the "GOOD" things are not split into the 4 Trees they are mainly in one row. So that is what dabblers do pick out the good ones and leave the bad ones. That is why CH is so beautiful. With 3/2/0/0 you get at the moment the best pet. At master you get two of them only. PvPer can take Pistol Speed Tree or just the Defense&Style Tree and whooom you got the best things for less points. So where is the benefit to be Master and complete 4 rows?

It is the problem that this will leave NO ROOM for other playstyles.

You can be crafter

You can be PvE

You can be PvP

Period.

If you like to craft you need lots of professions. Artisan for surveying, selling and schemata - then your favorite Crafting Profession and then Merchant Profession to sell your stuff. You can never fight in PvE or participate at the GCW.

If you like to PvE you cannot craft. And if you like to compete in PvP you have no or less choices left. For the GCW and PvP you need to be BH or Commando. There is no free choice! Where is the part where the players can CHOOSE?

Dabbling is not the problem the problem is that a dabbler is alot better then the specialist. If i focus on one weapon and master this weapon i am the stupid one, cause now i can take the good ones and be better in a overall way then a specialist.

Pistol Master needs to be better with any kind of pistols then any other dabbling player
Carabine Master need to better with any kind of carabine then any other dabbling player -and so on.

Lets bring some Numbers in it:

2 players

Master Pistoleer:
24 Pistol Styles
74 Pistol Speed
95 Pistol Accuracy

BH Pistol Dabbler with Pistoleer 0/0/4/4 and BH 0/0/4/0
23 Pistol Styles
109 Pistol Speed
115 Pistol Accuracy

With only one style less you get more out of the pistols and got the bigger and better styles. It is not simply you have other benefits from dabbling just as good styles you get more speed and accuracy.

As i see it dabbling is ok, but the way the prereqs are handled is bad. And the way skill trees are made are bad also.

Well according to your own mastery of skills, you WILL be better off than someone who has 0040 in smuggler.. You will be the same skill wise in PISTOLS only!!!! However, the defenses that you gain from being a master TKA will give you the advantage in a fight. You are not looking at the big picture throughout all of this.

When you analyze where your stregnths and weaknesses lie, you are not focusing on the fact that you are stronger than that said opponent in TKA and defensiveness. Yet you are equal in pistols. The upper hand will probably go to you.. What if that opponent has entertaining skills as his extra professions? You are much more of a combat class than he/she. Don't focus on where you are equal. Focus on where you have the upper hand against your opponent and exploit that stregnth and his/her weakness. You are being extremely shortsighted in that argument.

battosai20...

Don't blame the dabblers then... You are perfectly right in where the blames lies therein... The Devs who nerf what people are doing.

Pistols honesty probably shouldn't be the best weapons in the game. Carbines in my opinion should be a bit more lethal and easier to use. However, unless they change this, then what are you going to do? From what I understand, you can get a power hammer in the game and that weapon can really kick some major a$$ when you compare it to ANY blaster weapon. I could be wrong but that's what I've been told. If you want to make the ultimate PvP/PvE character you should be a Master CH/TKA/Riflement or something like that.

Dabblers in effect make the game more realistic. When you figure IRL terms, what is the real difference between someone who is a MASTER Gunfighter and someone who is almost a Master... Not much will seperate that person. In fact, the general rule that I've understood is that as you get better in something, the differences of how much you can improve gets smaller. Which explains why you can dabble and still be very good at something and when you Master something you really are not THAT much better at it than someone who isn't a master. HEnce, why in the elite professions it takes fewer and fewer skill points as you progress upon the tree. Makes sense to me that way!

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Logitition wrote:

Lets look at it this way, if u take a profession like BH. Did u get involved in the profession to hunt bounties or be the best in PvP/PvE? I look at it like this:

You guys are going to be running around to remote places of the planets. U are going to need terrain negotiation and the ability to build camps, to get the small specials on your weapons before u made master u had to have the pistol, carbine, and ranged support columns in marksman.... these things are where your points went to, not your weapons fully when u consider the scout and the marksman was to get u by with thelower skills.the wayI see it - a BH took 2 columnsof pistol and 2 columns of carbine and 1 column of LLC. Yea u can say u had to spend the points to get it... but u did not really spend those points on weapons, U spent those points to harvest, climb terrain,etc.... a pistoleer spends 5 columns in pistol as I see it. he spent less points... but if he takes the scout master like u did and the marksman so he can use rifles and carbines, and kick out supp. fire and warning shotlike u can... then he will spend as much and still not be as good as a BH in carbine or get a LLC ever.

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Man, I love this part of the post... Why, because it explains exactly what a BH is meant to be able to do and why he can do what he can do. They are not going to the be absolute best PvP'er ro the Best Pistoleer, or the best Carbineer, but they sure as hell can do very good in it. They are not going to be able to heal as best as a doctor but they are left with enough skill points to take medic and a few skills in there. BH's are the real jack of all trades if you ask me. They have high levels of proficiency in 4 weapons, Pistol, Rifle, Carbine, and LLC. They are better at Pistols and Carbines because they have to. Is a strict Master BH better at pistols than just a strict Master Pistoleer? I don't think so. They might have better shots or different shots(BH that is) but then again, a BH wouldn't use a pistol against a pistoleer. He's probably use a carbine, knock em down and hit em with an LLC to capture him after an incap.

BH's are supposed to be able to do a lot, that's what the profession is supposed to do. I like it, I think it's balanced and yes, very powerful...

Pistoleers are as well. Very powerful and balanced, but they do need some support abilities to make them more powerful. What's wrong with people realizing that.

Thanks for pointing out the obvious to those who can't see it Logition...