Pistoleer Archive
Thread: Wepps, your state of the profession report and it's answer's.
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=Development&message.id=722988&page=6
There is a post by Webbs on that page that is a great example of his misinformation.
Wepps wrote:
Still, DEV team is moving Eye Shot to our master box, so that the other professions don't get their hands on ours. This will considerably lower the number of people you will see using it, but it is easily defensible. Just wear a helmet. Versus those that I have tested it on wearing a good Composite helm, I hit for 30-40 dmg tops. To help with this, DEV also thinks it's appropriate to add mind heals in combat. Essentially, our Eye Shot that so many people complain about is about to be useless anyway along with our knockdowns.
30-40 dmg tops...with Eyeshot, against somebody wearing a Composite Helm. That's the biggest load of bull I've ever seen. Show me somebody with a 90% Composite Helm and I'll show you somebody that only takes 30-40dmg from Eyeshot. The average Eyeshot I am hit with is over 300pts damage, and I see them in the 400s regularly... to reduce that down to 30-40 you would have to block 90% of it.
Sorry, but since Wepps has been posting here I decided to answer his State of the Profession report here. My response is in red, everything else is his.
Bounty Hunter State of the Profession 10/30
Profession is gated at all levels
Currently, the Bounty Hunter attempting to pursue Investigations, their primary purpose, is having a difficult time even completing missions without some form of bug interfering with the gameplay. This is causing the single most difficult tree to advance up to be that much more difficult, and the progress is super slow. As a direct result of this, there is no immersive qualities to Bounty Hunter, and the player is forced to resort to other means to find that 'fun factor'. However, as you will see, that 'fun factor' is deliberately limited for this profession, and those limitations must be removed.
Sorry Wepps, but the 'fun factor' is not just limited for your profession. You should try some other professions before you start speaking for them.
There is a still a rather large community that is under the impression that the Bounty Hunter is too powerful in PvP combat. This simply is not true. In comparison to the other ranged combat professions, the Bounty Hunter is 2nd rate, and is only barely surviving in PvP. Currently, Pistoleer, Carbineer, Riflemen, Smuggler, TKA combos are absolutely laying waste to the Bounty Hunter in that theatre. Each one of those professions, in and of themselves, have at least ONE 1-shot killer attack that they spam in PvP combat, yet they are being ignored, while the Bounty Hunter is having a special, Eye Shot, which is not a 1-shot kill, moved to the master box to remove some of the power from our inventory.
I believe only the Smuggler with their x7 damage low blow (?) is the only one shot killer for pistol attacks, rifleman I can see, TKA I'm not sure of and Carbineer I'm not sure of. But how can you compair a BH, someone who is a master Scout, master marksmen master BH to someone who is master pistoleer, master TKA, Master Smuggler? They are master of three combat professions, you are master of two, you should lose. BH has Eyeshot, although not a one shot killer it does hit MIND pool which is a NON-HEALABLE pool, VERY VERY VERY overpowering. And you seem to have left out torso shot with a dizzy effect plus a fire bleed and targeted ham, which is a hell of a lot better then anything pistoleer's have.
The reason for this is the tremendous HAM costs of our special attacks. In fact they cost so much in health, that we are forced in most situations to go completely armorless. Considering our complete lack of defense, this places us in a very bad situation. It has always been assumed that the Bounty Hunter is sacrificing defenses for a powerful output. However, we are finding more and more that all other professions have just as much power, if not more variety in that power, over their skill point expenditures.
If that is the case, then it is pointless to expend 217 skill points on an underpowered profession awaiting yet another nerf in the wings.
Last time I saw a bounty hunter spam mind shot, your so called underpowered special, he laid waste to dozen's of people before they finally took him down, I didn't see him having any trouble with ham cost's. For 217 points your getting a profession that does insane damage and damage to nonhealable pools, or do you not consider your LLC as being an insane damage weapon when just a month ago you guys where afraid they'd nerf it when everyone was posting those one shot PvP kills and those 10k PvE shots?
In comparison to those professions, the Master Bounty Hunter MUST spend a minimum of 217 skill points to achieve. While the Bounty Hunter must do this, this limits our ability to dabble in other professional content to any greater degree than a full single line of skill in some other profession and we are forced to self-sufficiency of profession. No other profession has this problem. All others have the ability to dabble into 3 full masteries, of 3 different professions, which when added up are significantly overpowered in many cases.
Hmm, If I am not mistaken, a Master Bounty Hunter is a Master of 3 full professions...is it not? Master Scout, Master Marksman, and Master Bounty Hunter, and you still have points left over, do these other so called profession that you are crusifing have extra points left over like you do once they get their 3 master professions? Does this mean that three master professions from any other profession, whether it's a combat or a noncombat profession is better then your three fully mastered profession? I think you need to open your eye's before you mention this one again.
The extreme example of this is the Pistoleer/Smuggler/TKA combo, all masteries. The Pistoleer also has the ability to enhance their weapon of choice, pistols, in two unique other avenues of dabbling, Bounty Pistols, and Smuggler Pistols, should they choose not to pursue the masteries themselves. A master Pistoleer with these skill lines is able to max out their pistols speed. Although the Carbineer can also dabble in Bounty Carbines, there are no useful attacks in that skill line at the moment that they don't already have available, and there is no unique weapons certification for carbine. Pistoleer dabbling in pistols gains the powerful Scatter Pistol certification. This is an imbalance. Further, Rifleman have no avenue whatsoever of pursuing enhancements to THEIR skills at all. There is nowhere for them to go to gain those advantages that the Pistoleer does.
If you have so much trouble with pistoleer's taking BH or smuggler in order to have some sort of a 'working' or 'useful' special, then perhaps you should ask yourself this question, Why does Wepps have pistol skills? Doesn't feel good when you have a nail being driving back into you does it? Pistoleer's are not alone in dabbling into other professions, Smuggler's do it for a speed/accuracy bonus, Commando's do it for specials, BH do it for speed and accuracy along with the intent of trying to have us nerfed. We are all guilty Wepps, not just pistoleer, so I suggest you clean up your act and stop pointing finger's when you, yourself, are guilty of this. You do have points left over to dabble as well, get over it and grow up.
These imbalances concern us. The reason is because we are STILL being pursued for nerfs, while these other professions mentioned are siginificantly more powerful on test center. Their defenses are being doubled, and the Bounty Hunter is receiving nothing at all to balance this growth in the other professions. This situation is forcing the Bounty Hunter into the status of a second-rate combat profession in PvP, and this is unacceptable considering no other profession comes close to the skill points necessary to master. This must change, this publish.
Second rate class? barely. Does the fact that dodge doesn't work, and when it does work we don't want to to work because the animation's end up getting us killed, is this noncomprehendable to you? Your worried about something that isn't even on live yet, and the current number's on live are Useless. And this useless thing is gonna make you second rate? If that is the case then you obviously do not know how to play a combat profession. Let me tell you something about dodge, I shot while on the run to stay out of melee range of animals, animals can hit you from 35m out with invisible teeth and claws, are you aware that when I dodge, my toon STOPS, does a stupid side step, then falls to the ground because it was incaped by the mob I was trying to RUN away from? Wepps, if you want my dodge, by all means, you can have it!
Versus PvE creatures, the Master Bounty Hunter, having only +24 ranged defense (mostly useless versus creatures), and only +2 melee defense, is extremely vulnerable. At this time on live servers, a Bounty Hunter (without a pet) is in it's worse situation versus a creature attack. This essentially removes Normal Missions from the inventory of Bounty Hunter abilities. Attempting to take creature missions at the level of a highly skilled Bounty Hunter generally has a negative effect. Once the insurance system goes live, no Bounty Hunters will be fighting PvE creatures.
First insurance will effect all. Second, just because you don't have defenses you can't run animal missions? I really feel sorry for all of those marksman who don't have any defenses at all then. Think about this, your torso shot has a fire bleed, along with bleed shot one from marksman, plus the torso shot is a targeted ham which you can spam body shot 2 with from marksman, and it also has a Dizzy which is better then any normal KD, and you can always use suppression fire after that. Vulnerable? Only if your to stupid to use the tools at your disposal.
Versus PvE NPC, the current state of the Bounty Hunter is entirely determined by their defenses, which are non-existent for all intents and purposes. Versus an NPC, this is the ONLY PLACE IN THE GAME where all the Bounty Hunter attacks actually work as intended. Versus both creatures and PvP, our attacks alone are reduced to a significant degree of uselessness. Bounty Hunter is entirely reliant upon 'control of the target'. This is what gives us any chance of survival at all. The current knockdown and dizzy rules, versus NPC, are fine and should be applied to both creatures and PvP combat. This means restoring our knockdowns and fixing the specials that reside in the master box to correspond to their attack power, and their special effects.
Restoring your KD, fine, then restore my area effect KD which you guys lobied to have it nerfed away from us. And PvP damage was reduced to a significant degree of uselessness for EVERYONE, not just you. If anything you guys along with rifleman have it better since you can attack a nonhealable pool while everyone else is stuck attacking a pool you can easily heal. Yes, there is a delay bug in the system right now, but you can still heal your damage that we are doing to you faster then we can dish it out.
It's a Tankless job! The Bounty Hunter is about to be forced to rely heavily upon their own skills in all situations, without a tank pet to absorb the tremendous damage we take in combat. Bounty Hunter downtimes from situations that we SURVIVE is extensive. Often, we do not survive at all. The new insurance system will more heavily effect Bounty Hunter than any other profession, causing us even more expenditures from an already impossible profession to gain rewards in. We need a method of applying a reliable technological pet to the combat situations we face. This is consistent with the Star Wars Extended Universe to a limited degree. We would much prefer being tweaked towards solo action, without the need for any pets at all, but this seems to be not forthcoming as we are still accused of being overpowered somehow.
Either develop a Bounty Hunter only droid for tanking usage, that is reliable and tough...able to stand in a situation versus our unique targets that have 13k HAM and often will 1-shot kill us, or deliver to the Bounty Hunter Profession the power to stand in those fights alone.
hmm, good points here, your getting better, however, not everyone has the skills to have a great pet either. Should these people also get a cool pet for them only? You still have enough points to take creature handler if you wish, just like everyone else. The insurance system will effect us all, it doesn't say, "pistoleer...pass, rifleman...pass, cheif...poor guy, let him pass to, bounty hunter...subract 20 condition from all". If you would much rather be tweaked for solo, I'll go with you on this one, Ok, you can be tweaked for solo, HOWEVER, the second someone takes Novice BH, you can no longer play in the galactic war. Being a master BH along with two at-st is just rediculously overpowering. The only way you can PvP is with duel's, which in the end, since your a solo class, you'll win so no one will be crazy enough to duel you.
The Bounty Hunter IS a solo profession. Many people pursue it for that reason. Solo PvE is our primary purpose, yet without the tools to survive the encounters, the profession will fade away in its currrently broken state.
Actually, the entire profession tree was designed for casual 'solo' player's. Not just Bounty Hunter. Any profession can solo, so this arguement is null
Mission Payouts are horribly low. Yeah, I know, a DEV looks at our 13k credit payout and says, why are they complaining? This is why. The tremendous expenditures in downtime (medical and entertainment), the expense of weapons and droids for Investigation purposes, armor costs, and mostly the cost of travel itself on any given mission, cause us to actually LOSE credits over time when pursuing bounties.
well, I don't know about this, so I'll take your word for it, but killing pest's all day long is boring as hell and not much pay either, but hey, I'll help you fight to increase your pay, I can see there's bad bugs there and don't mind helping you out there.
In essence, there IS NO REWARD FOR PURSUING BOUNTIES. While others are free to work creature PvE missions, for the reasons above the Bounty Hunter is not capable of doing this. Therefore , those rewards are not forthcoming. Without the ability to enhance our credit making potential, under the current system which causes us to lose credits over time in our normal duties that we were designed for, the profession is gated.
Last time I checked, yes, you where able to take creature PvE missions...Now, if you do not get investigation from these missions so choose not to do them because of this, that is an entirely different thing and you should not mismark it as such.
The sole purpose of the Bounty Hunter, in the end, is to pursue bounties for MONEY, and lots of it. Even though those missions on the surface appear to offer great rewards, the expenses in each mission add up to a significant loss of credits over time. There needs to be a new method of applying rewards for completeing missions in the Bounty Hunter profession.
I agree, lots of money for missions, that's twice I agree with you so far, I'm surprised. however, if you do want LOTS of it, then the missions must be difficult and time consuming in order for it to be fair with everyone else.
Player Bounties. There is no point in adding these if we are not capable of defending ourselves. Player Bounties is the reason most people joined this game to play as Bounty Hunters, and so far the claim is...they are too difficult to implement. If the Bounty Hunter can expect their power restored, this is the top issue after mission payouts. Institute an immersive and rewarding Player Bounty system.
I'm against player bounties because I hate PvP, and the last thing I need is for some jerk BH to run up, with no price on my head, and take me out claiming it to be for a bounty. You are not defensless either, I already went over this and am not inclined to repeat myself on it.
Gadgets / Bounty Hunter Guild. Special gadgets only available for the Bounty Hunter should be instituted. Each should have a quite powerful attack or ability to control a target associated with them. These should be purchased at the Bounty Hunters Guild using either excess Investigation skill points, or faction points associated with the Bounty Hunter Guild. Also, along these lines there needs to be a public 'Scorekeeper'. All the 'kills versus deths' statistics available to be viewed, so those who are the best in the profession are recognized.
Nice, but a cosmetic thing, work on bugs first, for now I'll consider this as a holster and twirly gun request, scorekeeping is up there now 
Dead or Alive. More immersive mission content, as well as a method of being able to stop and capture a bounty for retrieval and return them to the Bounty Hunter Guild for a larger reward, are needed. This one is a given, along with Player Bounties.
Man, I think we can all use more immersive mission's, not just bounty hunter. So let's not exclude the other profession on this one ok pal?
Conclusion: The profession is in a bad state on a scale of excellent to worst. The profession is being ignored, since there is a wide misconception that we are overpowered in everything that we do, based upon the feedback of those in the GCW forums that simply do not understand the mechanics of the game on the level of DEV team.
That's actually quit funny, because EVERY profession is in a bad state, some worse then other's. I won't speek for any other profession but as a pistoleer I'll tell you this, at least your pistol specials work as inteded, our either doesn't work or are worse then the marksmen specials that a master pistoleer is still using. Do you still consider yourself with more broken specials then us? We have one special that works, you have all of yours working to my knowledge, at least for pistol line. I also find that line amusing because every time someone get's owned in PvP with eyeshot, pistoleer's get yelled at, not BH. Whenever someone get's owned by low blow, pistoleer's get nerfed.
In comparison, following full skill point expenditures, Bounty Hunters are 2nd to all other combat professions at this time, with the possible exception of Carbineer-based players. Finally, we are missing a LOT of content that was assumed to be associated with what it means to BE a Bounty hunter at release. These issues are still not forthcoming as far as we know.
You sir are second to none unless you do not know how to play. As the paragraph above explains. And ALL professions where promised MORE at release, however, people like yourself Wepps, that only care about nerfing those around you till your own profession is the last standing one usefull profession, has been ruining the game. You ask for SS of one shot kills, not many have been posted because the only ones capable of it are yourself, rifleman, commando and very few carboneer and pistoleer. You where looking for evidence to nerf our stopping shot, you failed, because our stopping shot was nerfed when it no longer 'stopped' or incaped in one shot as the discription said, so I guess you will only succeed in nerfing your LLC if you continue on these pointless nerf wars.
There is a significant amount of work to be done here.
3rd time I agree with you, three's the charm. There is alot of work that needs to be done, not as much on your class with the exception of investigation and bounty payoff as other professions that are completely broken like squad leader, cheifs, BE, DE, and even pistoleer and carboneer's.
This is the state of your profession, and your attempt within your statement of your own profession of trying to nerf our defenses before it even went live. shame on you! how did someone like you ever become a correspondent is beyond me.
Wow, I do not read this profession much but if I were Wepps I would not be happy. In my company this is something you could have takken offline. However you do write very well and so does Wepps it seems.
/Netchan...
Bolanos wrote:
I believe only the Smuggler with their x7 damage low blow (?) is the only one shot killer for pistol attacks, rifleman I can see, TKA I'm not sure of and Carbineer I'm not sure of. But how can you compair a BH, someone who is a master Scout, master marksmen master BH to someone who is master pistoleer, master TKA, Master Smuggler? They are master of three combat professions, you are master of two, you should lose. BH has Eyeshot, although not a one shot killer it does hit MIND pool which is a NON-HEALABLE pool, VERY VERY VERY overpowering. And you seem to have left out torso shot with a dizzy effect plus a fire bleed and targeted ham, which is a hell of a lot better then anything pistoleer's have.
Low blow has no 7x damage modifier, torso shot has no dizzy unless I used it wrong every hundreds of times I fired it.
Also, this assumption that a BH should lose because he has 1 less combat profession, holds no ground. Why? because if I keep youaway from me, yourtka is pretty worthless, isnt it? Also, I didnt know smuggler was a pure combat profession since they can make drugs and slice weapons, but thats just me, I think.
My scatter for an edit button..
after re-reading your post I actually came to the conclusion your statements are more then just flawed assumptions, they're just plain bull. Scratch my previous post and forget I ever said anything
Bolanos wrote:
I said I wouldn't post to not upset Phil and let him work on our issues. but I do one to clear one thing, No, I will not respond to your post although I do want to but I will say this, the BH did lay waste to dozens of people. they where all in duel since he was not rebel or imp. But he dueled one after the other after the other and finally lost to a CH. I just wanted to state this so you don't think I'm lieing or exagerating. I will not comment on the rest out of Phil's wishes to end this bickering.
Hmm, talk about misinformation. In your first post you made it seem as if the BH took on everyone at once, and then youquicklt\y stick your foot in your mouth by saying that he dueled them one after the other.
You deliberately tried to make it seem as if the BH took on 12 people at once. This above all, angers me the most.
You posted this as a response to anger you felt by a post that you didn't agree with, and now your post will anger someone else (or many people actually) and cause them to post their own rants which will then probably anger you and others; thus causing a relentless cycle of anger.
So please, everyone stopposting these type of threads.
Ardus wrote;
Stopping shot and fan shot are MUCH more powerful than any BH pistol move. ((meaning pistoleers))
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eye shot is more powerful than any pistoleer special hands down ...period thats for pvp
for pve you have a dang CANNON ....use it silly!
If you want i am positive pistoleers will trade stopping shot for eyeshot 
hell take your pick
We dont have to get over ourselves.....for stating the truth ! but whats funny is seeing the King of the hill try to stay on top! lmao
Leva Oripa
Master pistoleer-Flurry
Tanks wrote:
The argument is not null, the investigation tree is SOLO hunting of 10-12K HAM marks. You can not group with anyone to do them.
I just wanted to point out that you can group on BH missions. I have gone with a friend of mine in the past. If I'm grouped with him and he takes a hit from the mark, I get TEF towards the mark and I can open fire. I got bored though, since he didn't really need my help.
Oh, and to clarifyan earlierpost last ditch (smuggler special)is a 6x shot, not 5x or 7x.
Wepps NEVER said to nerf your class. He just wants a dam reason why the devs are moving eyeshot to master when it doesnt do high damage and can be nullified by a good comp helm.
Dont believe, take this into account. My scatter was 270 damage max. Krayt sliced 29% damage. Against a friend of mine with just 60% ish comp helm, i shot 10, yes, 10 eyeshots just b4 i got incapped. And he was still alive, about 14% mind left. 10 seconds means death to the BH. Hell, 6 seconds=BH must die or is buffs. Furthure more, i had little action left and he hit and caused me incap. I didnt care. He had a comp helm. Now compare that to stopping or fanshot (which i currently have, i quit BH a few weeks after cause i got bored). They hit random pools, meaning all armor must be worn. I was able to 2-shot a person in PvP. That is so sweet. I used stopping and it hit his action twice. Anyway, Wepps never said to nerf anyone. He just wants to know why other classes having defense and have powerful 1-shotters while BH is defenseless and have 5 second attacks. LLC kinda counts, but with all the comp armor going around, thats gone too. I support every class in thier struggle, but I dont support whiners. Read my quote on why.
Fahd Krath Master Bounty Hunter/Master Jedi Stalker