Pistoleer Archive

Pre-CU, with all weapons firing the same ranges, there was a scheme that made accuracy for each weapon viable at different ranges.

Now, given that skill points and cross pollenation of skills from other professions can make those old mods pointless, it would be suggested that any new mods be meaningful. Give Pistoleers back the 64 meter range, but make hitting a target at 64 meters a painful exercise. Give Riflemen mods which make fighting at close quarters difficult, and yes, this means you can stand ten meters from someone and miss them entirely.

True story: A police officer and an escaping suspect traded fire with each other on a fire escape landing. They both emptied their clips and in the final tally neither one of them managed to hit each other once, and this was with two guys with pistols.

Just because he's right in front of you doesn't imply you're going to hit him easily.

Carbineers should be dangerous from about 25-40 meters with a light fall off at short range (automatic fire), and a steep fall off at the extreme edge.

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Melvic wrote:

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Nifty wrote:

When they said increased damage ranges, I thought they just made the max and min ranges greater, so that a higher defense score meant less damage.

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I thought that is all they did too to give the +500 from CoB some more use and discourage everyone with low defs from tanking. If there is some magical pistol skill working behind the scenes I have never heard of it.

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Actually, I had my friend who has a MR/MBH CM 4000 character to do a small test for me. She equipped a rifle and let a bol bite her, then switched to a pistol. She took 227 points of damage with the rifle and 233 points of damage with the pistol. Now, she's a CL 80 character, the Bol was CL 78 and she was not wearing any armor. So in this case, she dropped 30 points of defense, and then took 6 more points of damage.

Maybe this magical mitigation that Dom is talking about only applies to the larger creatures, or you have to have some pistoleer skills to see the mitigation.

I do know, that my rifle friend has absolutely no need to ever use a pistol, and I have a need to use a rifle (or carbine) when I'm more than 35m away from my target. Again, that's not balanced.

The only solutionsare 1) go to range limtations on the specials with the weapons all being 0-65m 2) go with Badger's idea of having the weapons have ranges varied with their CL rating or 3) put the accuracy modifers based on range (if any still exist, if not, add them) back into the UI so we can see them, AND have those accuracy mods affect damage done (as accuracy is part of the damage calculation) as well as the chance to hit.

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Grimjakk wrote:

The reason Pistolier get so many General Ranged bonuses and defensesis that it's recognized they'll be using other weapons until the target closes to half range... and only in PvP is that even an issue.

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Message Edited by Suraknar on 06-28-2005 11:50 AM

Hehehe...

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Suraknar wrote:

...it makes no sence to me to have to switch to aRifle when I am a Pistoleer, would rather go withRifles all together and get the bonuses of actually using aRifle...

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BadgerSmaker wrote:

Hehehe...

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Suraknar wrote:

...it makes no sence to me to have to switch to aRifle when I am a Pistoleer, would rather go withRifles all together and get the bonuses of actually using aRifle...

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Badger, you're so sneaky! or is it snarky??? hmm...

seriously though. as a pistoleer with no rifle skills, there are times when I have need for a rifle. As a riflewoman with no pistol skills, my friend has no need to use a pistol (as shown above, the bol bit her for more damage when she held a pistol than when she held a rifle) in solo PvE content.

• When you use a pistol, you looklike a Pistoleer, andmove pretty fast


• When you use a carbine, you looklike a Carbineer, and move a little slower


• When you use a rifle, you looklike a Rifleman, and move a little slower yet

That's enough distinction for me.

Someone already said thisbut I'll repeat it - Due to skill sharing, there are only two classes now:Ranged and Melee

Hi, everybody. I've been reading the thread and I've come up with a new proposal. Let me know what you think.

Pistol Certifications

All pistols have a 1-35 meter firing range.
(i.e. You need 30 meters to get the max range of 65 meters.)

Carbine Certifications

All carbines have a 15-50 meter firing range.
(i.e. You need 15 meters to get the min range of 1 meter.)
(i.e. You need 15 meters to get the max range of 65 meters.)

Rifle Certifications

All rifles have a 30-65 meter firing range.
(i.e. You need 30 meters to get the max range of 1 meter.)

Pistoleer Skill Bonuses

Each box of Pistoleer would give +1 meter max range while wielding Pistols.
Master Pistoleer would give +14 meter max range while wielding Pistols.

Carbineer Skill Bonuses

Each box of two trees of Carbineer would give -1 meter to min range while wielding Carbines.
Each box of two trees of Carbineer would give +1 meter to max range while wielding Carbines.
Master Carbineer would give -7 meter min range and +7 meter max range while wielding Carbines.

Rifleman Skill Bonuses

Each box of Rifleman would give -1 meter min range while wielding Rifles.
Master Rifleman would give -14 meter min range range while wielding Pistols.

What else?

There may need to be very small adjustments to SAC and damge costs for pistols, carbines and rifles to make the weapons more distinct. Or else everybody would just go Master Rifleman for damage. There should be balance in that pistols do less damage but can fire longer because of the low SAC. Rifles are the extreme opposite of that. Carbines are a balance.

What does this accomplish?

A profession is encouraged to use that professions's weapons because they'll be able to wield them effectively at all ranges. i.e. A Master Bounty Hunter / Master Pistoleer would be using a pistol because he can fire it from 0-65 meters, but if he picks up a rifle he's limited to 30-65 meters with it unless he has a few boxes in Rifleman which would bring down the minimum firing range.

This still allows for cross-profession dabbling. As a Pistoleer, I don't mind Rifleman using Stopping Shot. I think it should be encouraged. Not knowing what special someone is going to use helps the game's excitement level.

As a master rifleman/Pistoleeri already know that most of those things are implemented. We move slower with a rifle in our hands then a pistol, pistol has a much much lower sac cost(my best rifle is about 90) The damage is exactly the same (stat wise). Infact i use my pistol whenever i can for the simple fact that the sac cost is much lower. And i dunno what world you live in but i can shoot a combat rifle alot faster then a pistol.

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raider7734 wrote:

I was out hunting with a friend yesterday. I use a carbine, he's learningpistols.We did some creature lair missions and of course he was usually closer to the mobs than me,and had to be extra careful at times, to avoid getting additionalaggro.

Question: What does him being limited to 35m add to my enjoyment of the game? My answer: not a damn thing. All it does is shaft him.

People are hung up on having different range limitsforpistols/ carbines / rifles. Why? Isn't it enough that...

• When you use a pistol, you looklike a Pistoleer, andmove pretty fast


• When you use a carbine, you looklike a Carbineer, and move a little slower


• When you use a rifle, you looklike a Rifleman, and move a little slower yet

That's enough distinction for me.

Someone already said thisbut I'll repeat it - Due to skill sharing, there are only two classes now:Ranged and Melee

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I am sorry I do not understand why your friend had tobe closer to the Mobs than you.

Why don't you take advantage of your range and position at 45m from the mobs you hunting, then you pull em at 45, wait for em to aproach at 30-35 then your friend puts in use his Pistoleer abilities root em there, and then you both kill it together?

This system calls for some tactics according to one's now new role based on their profession, it up to the players to work out what works best and coordinate in Hunts.

I am up till now the only Master Rrifleman in our groop hunts that are usually from 6 to 8 people. And the rest is either Carabineers or Pistoleers, plus a Comando,we are a ranged Groop...simply because none in our PA is a melee fighter yet. And we have learned to work together.

Rifles would pull then go in support mode, Carabines would do crowd control (in case the pull pulls more than what is expected)and prepare targets to be rooted for pistoleers and all together would finish the enemy.

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BadgerSmaker wrote:

How.. does that address the imbalance in ranges?

Ack, we dont want anyone nerfed, this isn't what this is about. Balance doesn't have to mean nerf. What this thread is for is so we can come up with ideas and get players opinions on the situation we are in.

So far we have:

• Increase range penalties significantly when using your weapon outside of its ideal range and remove all range limits on weapons.


• Put range limits on elite ranged professions specials and remove all range limits on weapons.


• Alter ranges on all ranged weapons to give elite ranged professions the ability to cover all ranges, but with lower CL guns, higher CL guns obey the model*.


• 
  
  Minimum range caps on Rifles.

Did I miss any of the suggestions?

* The model is 35m max range for pistols, 10-55m range for carbs and 20-65m for rifles.

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I just want to ask, does anyone think that min caps on rifles will stop them from getting kited? Root, run, snare, run, snare, run, root, run. Min's will do nothing for PvP as far as I can tell as long as the rifleman plays his role, stays < 20m out..

I say we make everyone equal, all guns equal, all ranges equal, all specials the same damage with same effects. No one will be happy as long as someone has an advantage. If everyone was equal there wouldn't be the need for post like this.

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Batman_Lightwalker wrote:

I just want to ask, does anyone think that min caps on rifles will stop them from getting kited? Root, run, snare, run, snare, run, root, run. Min's will do nothing for PvP as far as I can tell as long as the rifleman plays his role, stays < 20m out..

I say we make everyone equal, all guns equal, all ranges equal, all specials the same damage with same effects. No one will be happy as long as someone has an advantage. If everyone was equal there wouldn't be the need for post like this.

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Haha! Reminds me of the christmas episode of South Park when they put on the "non denominal" christmas play. They couldn't say or show anything religious or have anything representing the traditional christmas .. so the play consisted of everyone dressed in shark suits dancing to techno music .. lol.

The moral is .. you can never please everyone.

Just wanted to add something about the mitigation system. From the posts here it sounds like the mitigation is determined by the profession not the weapon equiped.

Example: MP/MR - with a rifle equipped the player is flagged for rifleman mitigation(rifleman defense is ranked 1), with a pistol equiped the player is flagged for pistoleer mitigation(ranked a 3 I believe).

MR/MBH- since bounty hunter is a general ranged profession and can use all three weapon types, it doesn't matter which weapon is equiped they are always flagged for BH mitigation(ranked 4).

This would explain why MR/MBH is such a popular template, and it seems the rifleman that realy dominate PvP have a MR/MBH template. Part of what kept Rifleman balanced was that they had the lowest defense.

With a MR/MBH/Pistoleer 0404 template you effectively have offense 5, defense 4, CC 4. Just something to consider, I dont PvP realy so I dont know how effective a non BH rifleman template is.