Pistoleer Archive

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XinnOwnzYou wrote:

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RenKesson wrote:

Yeah, same serial would totally eliminate DE-10 dual-wieldage.

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Well just imagine how cool 2 de-10s would look =p

I woulded really use dual wield if you couldent use them for de-10s

I can imagine 2 de-10s in holsters

/drool

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Isn't that what jango used in EP:2 ??

It might be an idea that you can only weild the same weapon in both hands =/

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SolrFlare wrote:

OK. Looking at this from a real life perspective and from someone who has done some pistol shooting, if you are holding two guns in your hand, your accuracy and speed is going to go to pot(contrary to the movies). No way you are going to be able to aim good and the recoil of having two guns firing is going to make firing much slower.

But, keeping in mind this is a game based off a fantasy/sci-fi universe:

- Use the speed of the slowest weapon + 1 as the speed for both guns

- Use the worst range mods from each weapon as the range mods for both weapons

- Add the ham costs

- Add the damage

- Allow players to mix and match weapon types

- If using an AP 0 weapon with an AP 1 weapon, AP 0 is then used for both weapons

- If using 2 different damage type guns, half the combined damage of both guns goes to one damage type, half to the other. So, say your total damage is 600 and you are firing energy and heat, then 300 would go to energy and 300 to heat.

Advantages: You get combined weapon damage, and the ability to fire two different damage types in one shot.

Negatives: Slower speed, potential range mod penalties(especially when mixing gun types), and increased ham costs.

And, you definitely need the speed of the slowest weapon + 1 to make sure there is always a penalty even if using two identical speed guns. And, you need always use the lowest AP in order to keep people from using dual wield to, say, bump a Geo pistol or FWG5 up to AP 1.

The above should keep is somewhat simpler from a programmers perspective too. Just do a compare for each mod, and depending on the mod type, you either just add them, use the lowest value, or use the highest value as the total value for the weapon.

Edit: Note when I say speed of the slowest weapon + 1, that one second delay is added in outside of speed mod considerations. Its a set additional 1 second dual weild penalty. Thus, even if you are speed capped, the best you'll be able to do is fire once every 2 seconds.

Message Edited by SolrFlare on 10-15-2004 10:58 AM

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Absolutely perfect imo. Only thing is that now AP is going maybe it should be that both guns have to be in the same mode? This would stop certain guns from being used in combination and would prevent the ability to negate the penalties asociated with the new damage mode system.

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LordMaxx wrote:
Yes, great to see the poll thread bumped just about daily...but some of you are cheating signing more than once!

My question is when the developers do work on Dual wielding pistols, what should the mechanics behind it be? Im sure they already have some ideas of their own, but if we can come up with a very well balanced and professional design document they may take it into consideration.

It would be easy to say things like...well just cuts your speed in half...but that doesnt exactly evoke balance. This ability should upgrade your combat abilities, but there must also be costs...

Im assuming most of the community will want it to be a Master Pistoleer skill which is fine by me...but discuss that also if you have differing opinions.

Some of the optional Pros and Cons to dual wielding could be this:
Speed Bonuses
Damage Bonuses
Accuracy Penalty
Movement Speed Penalty
Both Weapons must be same type
Both Weapons must have same Serial
Limited Specials Use
No Specials Use

And there could be many more...think of how you could take the above bonuses and penalties and make a balanced and fair pistoleer ability. Also Im sure there are other bonuses and penalties that could apply post those also if you think of them.

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We should be able to use ANY of our pistols we are certed for with dual wielding is a biggy!!! there are too many pistols in the game right now that would be rendered useless by they people choosing to dual wield.

we should be able to use all of our specials...dual wielding is NOT just for show...

we should be able to fire at our normal speed with both weapons...

we should take an accuracy hit of some kind standing still

we should take a bigger accuracy hit when we are moving...

my question is...when is this going to be worked on...devs have not mentioned it in ages.

Message Edited by NasherUK on 02-17-2005 08:52 AM

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NasherUK wrote:

You should be able to use a combo of any 2 pistol types (or both the same). Not only 2 with the same serial.

Youshould be able to use a special on 1 pistol at a time, or both pistols at the same time (so double speed or double damage).

Max range should be reduced along withsome accuracy.

You should NOT be able to /aim while holding 2 pistols.

Each pistol should keep its stats, appart from speed which takes on the one from the slowest.

Message Edited by NasherUK on 02-17-2005 08:52 AM

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Why wouldn't the speeds be seperated too? Your trigger fingers can move at different speeds. I think you should be able to use different types of pistols...just make the accuracy take a hit!

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Confusion12345 wrote:

I think dual pistols should work like this:

-Decreased accuracy

-Each weapon fires at its own speed

-Specials can only be used with the weapon in your right hand ( unless they decide to add some sort of special designed for dual pistols, in which case there would be an exception ) .

-The weapon in your left hand will just autofire at its own speed

-Maybe an ability where the pistoleer can do something like target the closest untargeted enemy, and autofire at it while the pistoleer is concentrating on a different enemy with his or her main weapon.

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Yes, very good idea. I like the specials in the right hand part. And the ability to shoot at multiple targets would be nice, too, but would get confusing rather fast, so that's why only a skilled person should use it.

This ability is the number one ability I am keeping pistoleer (and have been since launch). I like all the ideas that have been proposed so far, but would have to add the following.

-Special attacks should only work for gun in right hand. Except for some special two hand attacks which will be described below.

- When dual wielding point blank rules should change. There should be a special attack called barrage or something. Basically you get an accuracy bonus on both weapons, and a small damage bonus from the guns, but the damage is porportionate to the actual damage (ie a max dam of 300 would do 350). Except that the special would shoot 6 blasts from the right hand and 4 or 5 from the left. This is a point blank attack or could be used especially after a knockdown. This shot would only work at point blank. I don't think this special should be made into a knockdown.

- another form of this should be made that actually halts someone from advancing. Maybe a 5 second delay that could actually stun an oppenent as well.

It was mentioned that dual wield could entail sword and pistol combos, I think this is generally a bad idea as this would be basically another profession (an ultra hybrid if you will).

Dual wield is needed becuase pistoleer is so underpowered. Rifles can damage almost 25k per hit (especially with the new anti decay kits going on ueber t-21s), carbineers don't need dual wield, as I don't think it woudl really work.

The only people I can see getting dual wield as well would be fencer and maybe jedi.

I really hope this is pushed threw as fast as possible. If anyone actually knows if the devs have mentioned that this was a go or not, could they please pm me or post after this. Thanks.

Ethyn - Wanderhome