Pistoleer Archive

Thread: Focus Thread : Balancing Range limitations for Pistoleer, Carbineer and Rifleman.

Gray03
Sat Jun 25, 2005 11:24 am
#144

First point - There are already many weapons with non-standard ranges. Yes, there are several carbines that shoot 60-65m.

The simplest solution is to make sure there are a couple more pistols and carbines added which can fire out to 65m. Problem solved.


Second option - Make the very few specials which are causing the issue to be weapon specific. IE Stopping shot = pistol only and FA area = carbine only etc. Leave most of them generic, but make the one-two most heavily "dabbled" shots weapon specific.


The hard minimum range caps are a really bad idea, for all the reasons people have previously mentioned.
Trebonious
Sat Jun 25, 2005 1:22 pm
#145



Giftmacher wrote:

At the risk of repeating myself though, I do think we need to focus on making weapons best for their ideal ranges, rather than prohibit their use at certain ranges. Why can't we just make it so you are 2/3s as effective outside your ideal range, reducing to 1/3 at the extreme. That way a ranged prof can always use their favoured weapon where they like, but will have significant inducement to change weapons in a tight spot.






I really like this idea. It has the virtue of simplicity.



Dungeons, if we insist on making rifles being very poor at close range, then we probably need more open air content, many dungeons are cramped as it is and there should be a benefit in taking a rifleman on a good deal of raids, at the very least a rifle with less power but a more flexable range would help.






To be realistic, I think we have to expect game content to remain the same. Considering the snail's pace at which the devs crank out new dungeons, I don't think we can expect them to add in a lot more content that would allow riflemen to stay at greater range.



St. David II

Master Carbineer

BadgerSmaker
Sat Jun 25, 2005 1:51 pm
#146






Giftmacher wrote:


Just to tie up, it's getting a bit heated, let's not ruin a good discussion of ideas (and I'd like to remind people that it is just ideas not demands at the moment) by feeding the trolls.







Yes, dont let a few bad posts ruinall the great ideas.


This thread has certainly done its job so far, my thanks to all the constructive posters that have given me (and I hope many others) a much better view of how the current system affects allthose involved.



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rushy68
Sat Jun 25, 2005 2:03 pm
#147

How close you are to your target is much harder to control then how far away you are from a target. I know that doesn't really make sense in theory, but in practice it really turns out that way, especially with melee professions and jedi in the game. So I would not support a minimum range cap, but instead a huge accuracy penalty like pre-cu.


Completely agree... the penalties pre-cu balanced the weapons ezily...


this is our best bet. As a rifleman it doesn't make sense to be a master of a weapon and then not be able to shoot whats 2 feet in front of u. i'm sorry its not logical. it is however extremley logical to have max range... its a quality of the rifle to have a longer range then a pistol...


if we have range penalties and not caps, and then i think we should also vouch for prof specific skills... we should. and thats the most sensable road



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PyscoJuggalo
Sat Jun 25, 2005 2:25 pm
#148


Here is the main issue, weapons are not balanced at all.



Heavy Weapons have the Highest SAC, then Rifles, then Carbs, then pistols.


Rifles have the largest max damage, then Carbs/Heavys, and then pistols.


Pistols have the fastest speed, then carbs, then rifles, and then heavys.


And finally we get to the Best Elite Profession in the game's big concern range(I'm gonna call you guys what you are, your specials are definately stronger then Rifleman Specials and I would take them over carb specials). Rifles have the most, carbs have the second, pistols have the least and heavys have a wide range.



So if we are truely gonna balance weapons lets not stop at range, because that is short sighted. Let us also balance Damage, Speed, and SAC.

Message Edited by PyscoJuggalo on 06-25-2005 05:26 PM



I am the Mad Rifleman, Writer of the Riflenomican. I understand the secrets of the Dark Ancient Developer ones and their Evil. (Maniacal Laughter) He he he he he, Ha ha ha ha ha, Aha ha ha ha!
CM's are like nukes. You have them just incase you need them, but as soon as you start using yours the other guys start using theirs and everything goes to hell-PyschoticChipmunk -The First line of the Riflenomican.
ChefVomit
Sat Jun 25, 2005 2:53 pm
#149






Gray03 wrote:

Yes, there are several carbines that shoot 60-65m



Which carbines do you speak of? I admit I dont know a lot about carbines, but please elaborate as to the exact names of the several carbines that shoot 60-65m. I only know of one, and its not actually acarbine. LOL. I am not saying there arent carbines that shoot 60m+.....Ijust dont know what they are. Can you elaborate?



Zemzam Zeman
__________________________________________________________________________
The crafter formerly known as Chef Vomit
New Profession: PURPLE PEOPLE EATER!
PLEASE DROP OFF ALL WINNINGS AT 3079,3154 Revenance, Lok

BadgerSmaker
Sat Jun 25, 2005 3:02 pm
#150

DXR6 is the only one I know of.



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"BAD NPC SPAWNER IS HERE!, NO ENTRY IN NPC SPAWNERS DATATABLE"
ChefVomit
Sat Jun 25, 2005 3:21 pm
#151






BadgerSmaker wrote:

DXR6 is the only one I know of.




Well hell, no wonder I didnt know of any. LOL. That thing is a turd.



Zemzam Zeman
__________________________________________________________________________
The crafter formerly known as Chef Vomit
New Profession: PURPLE PEOPLE EATER!
PLEASE DROP OFF ALL WINNINGS AT 3079,3154 Revenance, Lok

Ackehece
Sat Jun 25, 2005 4:16 pm
#152






BeWary wrote:





TAfirehawk wrote:

The Devs got scared because of one prof being such cry babies about a nerf to their uberness (which they should have never been solo'ing Krayts, etc. anyways) but in turn now have nearly destroyed the other two ranged profs.


BTW, those Rifleman or even Carbineers that complain about not being able to participate in dungeon/melee content, well choose another prof that is meant to be effective at close range or diversify your template or get a BALANCED GROUP.






TAFirehawk uses common sense to hit The nail on the head for a bajillion points of truth dmg.


The nail is stunned


The nail looks less steady on its feet.








UnfortunatelyFirehawk again missed the mark entirely. This is not a nerf of just rifleman. It is a nerf of Rangers, Squad Leaders, Commandos, Combat Medics, Single Craft professionals etc... anyone who wants a Rifle combat ability but can not fit pistols or melee into their template. With a min range most professions with out skills in close range combat would not be able to play at all. Limits to what professions people have to play to be viable is completely out side the preview of what the CU tried to do.

A pistoleer could survive anywhere (and rival rifleman range with cyber arms)... a Rifleman could not.



"And these blast points, too accurate for Sandpeople. Only
Imperial Stormtroopers are so precise"
Rifleman Correspondent | Galactic Senator from Naboo
Ackehece - Eclipse | Tife - TestCenter




[--Riflewoman are all about sex drugs and rock and roll --]
Encoded as per Garva




Bennyboy4308
Sat Jun 25, 2005 4:32 pm
#153

That would fork over Carbineers, badly. Currently PvP has either 2 ranges, straight out melee range, or long distance 64-80m back and forth type combat. If you make it so we can't effectivly fight in either range than we need some SERIOUS upgrades here.. As it is, Carbineer doesn't have much to warrent a 5 in crowd control.



~Enaw~ [PV/XF Da 800g3ym@n] <RebelemO FactKr>
PyscoJuggalo
Sat Jun 25, 2005 4:43 pm
#154

If you want to balance range lets go the opposite dirrection. Instead of limiting weapons let all weapons hit at 65m.


I garuntee you if we go to minimum ranges nothing will be solved. Rifles will be made weaker, rifleman will be a worthless profession, and everyone will be a Master Carbineer instead of Rifleman in their template.



Making everyone hit from 65m wont balance anything (Because of my previous post, weapons aint balanced period), but it is better then destroying one profession.



I am the Mad Rifleman, Writer of the Riflenomican. I understand the secrets of the Dark Ancient Developer ones and their Evil. (Maniacal Laughter) He he he he he, Ha ha ha ha ha, Aha ha ha ha!
CM's are like nukes. You have them just incase you need them, but as soon as you start using yours the other guys start using theirs and everything goes to hell-PyschoticChipmunk -The First line of the Riflenomican.
PyscoJuggalo
Sat Jun 25, 2005 5:04 pm
#155






Giftmacher wrote:






PyscoJuggalo wrote:

If you want to balance range lets go the opposite dirrection. Instead of limiting weapons let all weapons hit at 65m.


I garuntee you if we go to minimum ranges nothing will be solved. Rifles will be made weaker, rifleman will be a worthless profession, and everyone will be a Master Carbineer instead of Rifleman in their template.



Making everyone hit from 65m wont balance anything (Because of my previous post, weapons aint balanced period), but it is better then destroying one profession.






I think it is sometimes difficult to feel the diffence in SAC at the moment particularly with PuPs complicating things, so yes I would support a long hard look at that.


However on your point (above)about heavy weapons, just how good/bad are they, and is the situation improved by having these weapons tied to a specific skill box?


Gift.





Heavy Weapons are screwed because they are slow, deal mediocre damage, and even after being SAC PUPed take alot of action(BTW a Plasma Thrower can't be PUPed at all). When they fix the AOE bug and if they deal full AOE damage they will be quite a good weapon class, but currently all they are is an interesting dabble for a Crowd Controller.



I am the Mad Rifleman, Writer of the Riflenomican. I understand the secrets of the Dark Ancient Developer ones and their Evil. (Maniacal Laughter) He he he he he, Ha ha ha ha ha, Aha ha ha ha!
CM's are like nukes. You have them just incase you need them, but as soon as you start using yours the other guys start using theirs and everything goes to hell-PyschoticChipmunk -The First line of the Riflenomican.
Slysix
Sat Jun 25, 2005 5:08 pm
#156

From what I'm seeing Pistoleer, Carbineer and Rifleman are balanced...in a stand alone profession.
The imbalance occurs when cross profession abilites are used with a weapon not designed for the range the ability was designed for. The root shot is not a rifleman ability but can be used with a rifle. Sniper shot is not is a pistoleers ability but can be used using a pistol(although I'd question why one would go prone that close).

How would limiting special abilites to be weapon specific affect the balance issue?

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