Pilot Archive
Thread: The FS Conversion Dead Horse
AnzelVincir wrote:
What I love is how he keeps repeating over and over how he doesn't enjoy repeating himself.
You have no sense of irony.
I think I can speak for him when I say that we both really want a red name to weigh in on this.
psikobunny wrote:
Tsumitsuki wrote:
With some hard work you can earn 1 million xp in an hour in space, likewise ive heard people on the ground claim they can cap their rifles/pistols/swords whatever xp 3 times in a buff - so thats what 900k of XP, oh, errrr..that seems to be on a par with the space xp.... All those people shouting that space XP is too easy, seems its pretty much as easy on the ground. Theres no problem in my opinion with converting space XP for FS XP..
1) For that to "work" you would have to physically travel to the Village 3 times during that buff session, due to Caps. If it's implemented for Space, a cap would be implemented for space, and then what happens to the tens of millions lots of Aces have stored up?
were just talking about using Space combat XP as a means of getting to Jedi Initiate.
2) Actually no one is talking about using Space Combat Experience. The Multiple Ace bonus would make that instantly abusable
Then _why_ do _you_ continue to read threads that you deem "over and done with"? they obviously annoy the hell out of you.
3) Because I don't want silence to be taken as tacit agreement. Because the bandwagon jumping yes-men should see why it is in fact a bad idea for space. Because its a lot of fun watching Anzel unable to converse at a level above 5th grade playground, yet pretend to aspire so much higher.
1) yaha, yep.. and the people that grind on dath claim the _do_travel to the village 3 times in a buff. tho I dont believe them,, twice yes.. not 3 times. from space you still gotta land on dath, then travel (unbuffed and so more dangerous) to the village and back then take off again.. charge up droid progs and then you can start fighting again which probably includes more travel and a hyperspace jump to endor or load into DS. Yep aces have 10s of millions stored up.. but so what? theres no cap on FS xp and if youve done the time youve done the time, so really I dont see the point in capping the XP for ground proffs it was there long before people started converting normal XP to FS xp so I think the cap has nothing to do with the jedi grind and is a throwback to the mechanism that caps the xp as you train up the skills in your chosen proff.The conversion rate isnt set (or planned as far as I know) let alone set in stone. Yeah the multiple ace bonus, thats an absurd thing in itself, should get rid of it in my opinion.
Tsumitsuki wrote:
psikobunny wrote:
Tsumitsuki wrote:
With some hard work you can earn 1 million xp in an hour in space, likewise ive heard people on the ground claim they can cap their rifles/pistols/swords whatever xp 3 times in a buff - so thats what 900k of XP, oh, errrr..that seems to be on a par with the space xp.... All those people shouting that space XP is too easy, seems its pretty much as easy on the ground. Theres no problem in my opinion with converting space XP for FS XP..
1) For that to "work" you would have to physically travel to the Village 3 times during that buff session, due to Caps. If it's implemented for Space, a cap would be implemented for space, and then what happens to the tens of millions lots of Aces have stored up?
were just talking about using Space combat XP as a means of getting to Jedi Initiate.
2) Actually no one is talking about using Space Combat Experience. The Multiple Ace bonus would make that instantly abusable
Then _why_ do _you_ continue to read threads that you deem "over and done with"? they obviously annoy the hell out of you.
3) Because I don't want silence to be taken as tacit agreement. Because the bandwagon jumping yes-men should see why it is in fact a bad idea for space. Because its a lot of fun watching Anzel unable to converse at a level above 5th grade playground, yet pretend to aspire so much higher.
1) yaha, yep.. and the people that grind on dath claim the _do_travel to the village 3 times in a buff. tho I dont believe them,, twice yes.. not 3 times. from space you still gotta land on dath, then travel (unbuffed and so more dangerous) to the village and back then take off again.. charge up droid progs and then you can start fighting again which probably includes more travel and a hyperspace jump to endor or load into DS. Yep aces have 10s of millions stored up.. but so what? theres no cap on FS xp and if youve done the time youve done the time, so really I dont see the point in capping the XP for ground proffs it was there long before people started converting normal XP to FS xp so I think the cap has nothing to do with the jedi grind and is a throwback to the mechanism that caps the xp as you train up the skills in your chosen proff.The conversion rate isnt set (or planned as far as I know) let alone set in stone. Yeah the multiple ace bonus, thats an absurd thing in itself, should get rid of it in my opinion.
Very well said. Additionally, travelling to and from the Village is nothing more than a time sink. I've said it before and I'll say it as many times as I need to... I don't want the path to Jedi to be shorter and I don't want it to become easier. The path to Jedi should be longer and much harder than lobbing grenades at rats or running a macro while watching TV in the other room. If were up to me the entire path would consist of an enormous series of quests that spanned every planet, space, different professions, etc.but SOE has a love affair with grinding of biblical proportions so that's just not going to happen.
Additionally, caps are just plain lame. Players who play the game should be able to store as much XP as they can EARN.
2) actually yes they are, according to the original post :
Quote:
"The answer to the above question is overwhelmingly yes. The inclusion of a Force Sensitive conversion rate is not only desirable but necessary for the success of this game and here is why: "
Seems its everybody else that has kneejerk-panicked and taken this to mean jedi using force powers in space. The original post was an arguement for being allowed to convert spacexp for FS xp. SOE have already stated (somwhere) that Jedi will NOT be allowed to use their powers in space, and a later post explains quite nicely why jedi most likely wouldnt use their powers in space, so thats not an issue really.
Also, the multi-ace bonus is a favorite argument here on the pilot forum. However I was proposing to only convert Prestige Points which I'm not sure you receive the multi bonus for (haven't really loooked). Even so, you can only receive PPs if you are a Master in which case they could simply adjust the conversion ratio accordingly. The math on that is pretty elementary.
3) "yet pretend to aspire" ? "yet try and appear to be so much higher" would have been more suitable. But I know where youre comming from now.
For some reason this guy can't hit the submit button without first insulting someone or calling someone childish names, etc. etc. etc. If we all stay focused on the topic at hand maybe he'll quit doing it.
AnzelVincir wrote:
Ducimus wrote:
Coran_Sienar wrote:
Jedi and their wannabes can have the FS conversion when Pilot skills take actual skill points to earn.
QFE!
How did i miss this little gem of a quote. Short, simple, to the point. Damn thats practically sig worthy!
I know you all think that this is the 'gotcha' argument for no FS conversion but the truth is that most people don't really care one way or another about skill points for pilot. Have you been in space lately? There's nobody up there. That's because people are only using JTL as a means to travel. If pilot was a woth while profession then nobody would care one way or another about skill points.
Again, nobody is suggesting that the FS grind become shorter or easier through the use of a PP conversion. It would be just as long and it would be harder since you would have to actually be in front of your computer to do it.
The whole, "you're trying to get to Jedi faster" and "It should take skill points" arguments are null and void. They have nothing to do with the overall quality of enjoyment and are simply a means to control what other players can and can't do.
AnzelVincir, do you have a jedi? If so why does it matter, you and I both know it doesn't take more than a month to get six boxes if you "try" a little. If not, you should take time away from space, since you continually state that "space is dead" and go play the ground game for your FS exp.
Anyone that wants a jedi can pick up some nades for 2weeks and toss them at some brackaset lairs on dathomir and turn in 3-400k exp a 3 1/2hr buff with ease, if you can't do that, then you have no need to earn the extra character slot and to be jedi class. Believe me, I've grinded out a jedi in both holo and village grinds and by far the village grind was easier,took me less than 3weeks.
The skill points arguements are very valid, if it takes skill points, it eats away at your ground template to kill quickly for FS exp and should allow FS exp to be in space as well then, giving you two ways to get exp, but currently, everyone has has one way, and if space was made transferable, everyone would have two.
Here is the last point, Jedi requires you to kill on the ground. If you think the FS "grind" is something, your in a world of hurt, you won't even touch your jedi, like many people don't. Go spend days, weeks, and possibly a couple months(depending on your grind ability) in the middle of no where. That is what a jedi does to level, not fly in space.
Put the points to use for a transferable Exp type(e.g. Pilot Loot) that gives us lvlX item with a slightly random better stat than normal or something, I honestly don't know, but I bet someone here could figure out the ranges and cost of item.
Message Edited by Kilun on 04-21-2005 02:55 PM
Tsumitsuki wrote:
psikobunny wrote:
Tsumitsuki wrote:
With some hard work you can earn 1 million xp in an hour in space, likewise ive heard people on the ground claim they can cap their rifles/pistols/swords whatever xp 3 times in a buff - so thats what 900k of XP, oh, errrr..that seems to be on a par with the space xp.... All those people shouting that space XP is too easy, seems its pretty much as easy on the ground. Theres no problem in my opinion with converting space XP for FS XP..
1) For that to "work" you would have to physically travel to the Village 3 times during that buff session, due to Caps. If it's implemented for Space, a cap would be implemented for space, and then what happens to the tens of millions lots of Aces have stored up?
were just talking about using Space combat XP as a means of getting to Jedi Initiate.
2) Actually no one is talking about using Space Combat Experience. The Multiple Ace bonus would make that instantly abusable
Then _why_ do _you_ continue to read threads that you deem "over and done with"? they obviously annoy the hell out of you.
3) Because I don't want silence to be taken as tacit agreement. Because the bandwagon jumping yes-men should see why it is in fact a bad idea for space. Because its a lot of fun watching Anzel unable to converse at a level above 5th grade playground, yet pretend to aspire so much higher.
1) yaha, yep.. and the people that grind on dath claim the _do_travel to the village 3 times in a buff. tho I dont believe them,, twice yes.. not 3 times. from space you still gotta land on dath, then travel (unbuffed and so more dangerous) to the village and back then take off again.. Excuse me, but what game are you talking about? First off, you can get buffed, fly into space and even if you get killed you don't lose your buffs. Second, I can fly to and from the village on a regular basis, unarmored and unbuffed and never get engaged by mobs. It's all in how you get there. charge up droid progs and then you can start fighting again which probably includes more travel and a hyperspace jump to endor or load into DS. Yeah, only once again you manage to ignore the reality that is JtL. Launch. Hit Cap Overload. Start Hyperspace jump. Before the jump hit Weapon Overload. Jump. Hit Engine Overload (Since jumping resets the droid interface timer). Fly to static spawn. Start grinding. Oh, and as I think I and several others have pointed out in space you don't need to kill the ship yourself to get all the XP from it. Only someone being deliberately obtuse would ignore the fact that static spawns in space would become nothing more than XP farms - regardless if it's XP or Prestige that can be converted. It's not hard to envision all the problems, and I can already see the posts in the Force-Sensitive and Jedi forums: STOP USING WEAPON OVERLOAD PROGRAMS IN SPACE!! Yep aces have 10s of millions stored up.. but so what? Yeah right! So what if there is suddenly another 2000 little jedi-to-be running around the game. Just more players for the Jedi-haters to hate, to complain about, and eventually force the Devs to spend time "fixing" again. Good plan. theres no cap on FS xp and if youve done the time youve done the time, so really I dont see the point in capping the XP for ground proffs it was there long before people started converting normal XP to FS xp so I think the cap has nothing to do with the jedi grind and is a throwback to the mechanism that caps the xp as you train up the skills in your chosen proff.Again, ground XP can't be compared to space XP on an equal basis. If I plink 50 Tier 3 ships in Endor with just one shot, I'm going to collect 1600 XP or PP on all 50 of them. If I run around Dantooine and use a CDEF pistol to hit 50 savage quenkers that someone else is fighting, I'm not going to get full XP nor anywhere near 1600 XO for each one. No doubt I'll get 50 nasty /tells, but that's about it. The conversion rate isnt set (or planned as far as I know) let alone set in stone. That's because it's hard to set a conversion rate for something that isn't allowed. Yeah the multiple ace bonus, thats an absurd thing in itself, should get rid of it in my opinion. It's a nice perk when doing multiple squadrons, and removing it to pave the way for a Force XP conversion process would be yet another slap in the face to people that really enjoy JtL. Otherwise, it's just an opinion of yours that it should be gotten rid of just because you don't like it and there are plenty of more compelling arguments out there to keep it.
2) actually yes they are, according to the original post :
Quote:
"The answer to the above question is overwhelmingly yes. The inclusion of a Force Sensitive conversion rate is not only desirable but necessary for the success of this game and here is why: " Which is the base of the problem. In order for the Devs to allow Space XP to be converted to Force XP, they would have to completely revamp the JtL expansion for the sole benefit of a ground-based template. Not exactly a good plan now is it?
Seems its everybody else that has kneejerk-panicked and taken this to mean jedi using force powers in space. The original post was an arguement for being allowed to convert spacexp for FS xp. SOE have already stated (somwhere) that Jedi will NOT be allowed to use their powers in space, and a later post explains quite nicely why jedi most likely wouldnt use their powers in space, so thats not an issue really.
3) "yet pretend to aspire" ? "yet try and appear to be so much higher" would have been more suitable. But I know where youre comming from now. I really think you need to use a spell-check program with a grammar and sentence structure checking module before you start grading other people's posts. (Hint: There's only one "m" in coming.)
Rolfie wrote:
The only way prestige should ever convert over to Force Skill points is IF piloting has the same cost as any other Novice Skill Set.
15+14+14+14+14+6=77 skill points to master.
Do you still want to convert prestige to Force Skills?
Piloting has no skill point cost so it should not contribute to Force Skill experience.
Agreed. Purchasing JTL should allow you to travel and possibly pilot non-combat ships such as the yacht. Combat skills in space should cost SPs.
AnzelVincir wrote:
Agreed. Purchasing JTL should allow you to travel and possibly pilot non-combat ships such as the yacht. Combat skills in space should cost SPs.
psikobunny wrote:
AnzelVincir wrote:
Agreed. Purchasing JTL should allow you to travel and possibly pilot non-combat ships such as the yacht. Combat skills in space should cost SPs.
You do not agree with what the poster said, you agree with the converse of what he said (I want Pilot prestige to count for FS xp, so Pilot skills should cost skill points), which is most definitely not true. Circular logic won't win you arguments or friends. You want to improve JtL, yet what you just agreed to would KILL it.
Starstrider6 wrote:
psikobunny wrote:
AnzelVincir wrote:
Agreed. Purchasing JTL should allow you to travel and possibly pilot non-combat ships such as the yacht. Combat skills in space should cost SPs.
You do not agree with what the poster said, you agree with the converse of what he said (I want Pilot prestige to count for FS xp, so Pilot skills should cost skill points), which is most definitely not true. Circular logic won't win you arguments or friends. You want to improve JtL, yet what you just agreed to would KILL it.
You're correct (again). However Anzel isn't necessarily agreeing because it's a good idea. He's agreeing because it's a way to bump this dead-end thread to the top again with out pretending to address the other arguments and issues that have been presented to counter his idea.
Honestly, I wish he would just be honest about it and make a post with only *bump* in it, like the Trade Forums.
Message Edited by Ooola on 04-25-2005 10:10 PM