Pilot Archive

What we need is a solid benchmark upon which to base balance adjusmtents from. A yardstick that all things manuverable should be compared to.

I dont think the mass on these new ships would be such an issue if they're YPR wasnt so high. The YPR is such that, even at 40K mass, these fighters would be very compedative.

True, but competative is good that is what we are looking for. Right now...*shrug*

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Ducimus wrote:
What we need is a solid benchmark upon which to base balance adjusmtents from. A yardstick that all things manuverable should be compared to.

I dont think the mass on these new ships would be such an issue if they're YPR wasnt so high. The YPR is such that, even at 40K mass, these fighters would be very compedative.

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Alyxian wrote:
I would rather see the mass cut than the YPR, but that is just another opinion.

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I'm by no means ruling out a push for mass cuts, but I'd like to see some more discussion on it first.

The PYR accel, on the other hand, seems undeniably excessive. Dropping these numbers to be in line with similar ships rather than keeping them at what appears to be the max (possibly the default?) for PYR accel strikes me as a fair and necessary change that would begin to address the balance problems here.

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TomoRainer wrote:

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Alyxian wrote:
I would rather see the mass cut than the YPR, but that is just another opinion.

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I'm by no means ruling out a push for mass cuts, but I'd like to see some more discussion on it first.

The PYR accel, on the other hand, seems undeniably excessive. Dropping these numbers to be in line with similar ships rather than keeping them at what appears to be the max (possibly the default?) for PYR accel strikes me as a fair and necessary change that would begin to address the balance problems here.

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>>Check out the stats on those ships above. At 40k mass the TIE/IN isn't considered "out of balance" but definately not worthy of PvP. At 40k mass neither is the Kihraxz. The differences are mainly the YPR. The AWing (closest comparison) at tier4 has much worse YPR but higher mass (the higher mass does make it very viable in PvP).
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Minor rebuttle

T/Ln is acutally very PvP viable. Ive Pvped in one, a couple others have too. All 40K mass means is you go light on the shield. You can still pack a L6 engine, L7 gun, and run EO4 in one. What acutally makes this ship hard to PvP in, is its chinmounted gun vs an A wing running EO4.

The Kihrax is in the same boat. Offhand id say what balances out its YPR is its larger profile. Both ships are PvP viable, its just most pilots wont attempt it. 40K mass, and they immediatly toss the chassis into the refuse pile.

The A wing is acutally somewhere in the same class as the T/I or T/A. However its small size is balanced out by its 0.8 (or so) reduction in Yaw and Pitch.

Now all that in my mind, begs the question how big or small is the profile on the ROTW ships? Even if its large, does a large profile jusify twice the YPR rating of a T/A at almost the same mass as an Xwing? I personaly don't think so.
These ships are quite simply, mutants.


At the core of the issue is this:

High YPR mixed with high level components.

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Ducimus wrote:
>>Check out the stats on those ships above. At 40k mass the TIE/IN isn't considered "out of balance" but definately not worthy of PvP. At 40k mass neither is the Kihraxz. The differences are mainly the YPR. The AWing (closest comparison) at tier4 has much worse YPR but higher mass (the higher mass does make it very viable in PvP).
>>

Minor rebuttle

T/Ln is acutally very PvP viable. Ive Pvped in one, a couple others have too. All 40K mass means is you go light on the shield. You can still pack a L6 engine, L7 gun, and run EO4 in one. What acutally makes this ship hard to PvP in, is its chinmounted gun vs an A wing running EO4.

The Kihrax is in the same boat. Offhand id say what balances out its YPR is its larger profile. Both ships are PvP viable, its just most pilots wont attempt it. 40K mass, and they immediatly toss the chassis into the refuse pile.

The A wing is acutally somewhere in the same class as the T/I or T/A. However its small size is balanced out by its 0.8 (or so) reduction in Yaw and Pitch.

Now all that in my mind, begs the question how big or small is the profile on the ROTW ships? Even if its large, does a large profile jusify twice the YPR rating of a T/A at almost the same mass as an Xwing? I personaly don't think so.
These ships are quite simply, mutants.


At the core of the issue is this:

High YPR mixed with high level components.

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From the one test I've done, the JSF's profile looks slightly smaller than an A-Wing. The Grievous is actually a pretty large target--not huge, but not gnatlike either--and so it worries me much less. In fact, other than the PYR stuff, I don't really have any problems with it. Pretty similar to a Dunelizard in a lot of ways, really.

By the way.. I can't test this for a while (and should probably know anyway, heh), but how exactly does the speed modifier affect turn speed? The same as with normal speed, i.e., a chassis with a .95 speed mod turns at .95 * the engine's PYR stats?

I hadn't really thought about this before, but if that's the case, the .95 mod on the JSF makes it somewhat less uber--an RE'd level 8 engine in one of these things is going to be roughly equivalent to a level 6 in an A-Wing.

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darmokVtS wrote:
In the early JTL days (november/december) I hardly could fly for more than an hour without having my inv completly filled with spaceloot, yesterdays result was six items in two hours (and this is quite typical for my results in deepspace for quite some time).

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I must be blessed then, or something. After an hour and a half flying my uber-ARC yesterday, I came back with a full inventory of space loot.

I can't say that I've noticed a drop in how often loot is dropped, not since beta anyway. I do remember getting loot from every kill during beta,often several components from one ship. Only loot "nerf" I ever saw was when that was removed.

Of course, after an obscene amount of millions of prestige XP, I've only so far found one good looted component...

Off the top of my head , a 0.95 spd mod chassis has a corner velocity of about 65%.

dunelizard / xwing for example.

a 1.0 spd mod chassis has a corner velocity of about 85%.

T/A / A wing for example.


In straight flight, i think its about a 150 (give or take) speed differnce.

My next question is, whats the throttle settings on these new ships? Just because their a 0.95 mod means they'll be at 65%. Starterships are an example of this.

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Alyxian wrote:
I would rather see the mass cut than the YPR, but that is just another opinion.

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I'd guess it's much easier to fix the YPR than the mass. Don't quite trust the developers to tinker with the mass on ships that already exist, really...

Besides, anyway you look at it, it's first and foremost the YPR that is out of whack. A mass cut would be have to be so brutal that the ships would end up being low-mass fighters instead of what they now are. Their current YPR is that of newbie ships, and that's just not right unless you've got low-end engines mounted on them.

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Ducimus wrote:
Off the top of my head , a 0.95 spd mod chassis has a corner velocity of about 65%.

dunelizard / xwing for example.

a 1.0 spd mod chassis has a corner velocity of about 85%.

T/A / A wing for example.


In straight flight, i think its about a 150 (give or take) speed differnce.

My next question is, whats the throttle settings on these new ships? Just because their a 0.95 mod means they'll be at 65%. Starterships are an example of this.

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Message Edited by JediNg on 05-11-2005 04:31 PM

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Vicotnik wrote:

And what, exactly, do you expect will happen if we add "heavy" and nimble ships, where the mass is not far off from these said bombers?

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I don't think I asked for this, did I? The ships in question for me (I can't get the ARC, it can be all godlike, I don't mind as I don't get to fly it anyway and I don't mind if others get some nice toy to play with that I cannot get ) are about 120k mass away from a krayt gunship and 100k from the Rihkxyrk, that's pretty far off for me .

My freelancer's Rihkxyrk (I don't like the Krayt for its looks) is btw STILL a lot more efficient in every PvE situation than my imperial's Jedi Starfighter (as it is naturally doing a lot more damage due to the third blasterslot and the 100k more mass to actually put some heavy stuff in it) but a lot less fun to fly :/.

Message Edited by darmokVtS on 05-12-2005 02:40 AM

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darmokVtS wrote:

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Vicotnik wrote:

And what, exactly, do you expect will happen if we add "heavy" and nimble ships, where the mass is not far off from these said bombers?

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I don't think I asked for this, did I? The ships in question for me (I can't get the ARC, it can be all godlike, I don't mind as I don't get to fly it anyway and I don't mind if others get some nice toy to play with that I cannot get ) are about 120k mass away from a krayt gunship and 100k from the Rihkxyrk, that's pretty far off for me .

My freelancer's Rihkxyrk (I don't like the Krayt for its looks) is btw STILL a lot more efficient in every PvE situation than my imperial's Jedi Starfighter (as it is naturally doing a lot more damage due to the third blasterslot and the 100k more mass to actually put some heavy stuff in it) but a lot less fun to fly :/.

Message Edited by darmokVtS on 05-12-2005 02:40 AM

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